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> How can I make the Barrens dangerous again?, Without resorting to random encounters...
kzt
post Mar 23 2008, 05:07 AM
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Yep. Not many runners have a squadron of Delta operators, a Ranger company and an elite helicopter squadron that will help them out when they piss off the 4,000 members of a mid-sized street gang.
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Critias
post Mar 23 2008, 05:19 AM
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Hah! Maybe not in your games, loser! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
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WearzManySkins
post Mar 23 2008, 05:26 AM
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QUOTE (kzt @ Mar 23 2008, 12:07 AM) *
Yep. Not many runners have a squadron of Delta operators, a Ranger company and an elite helicopter squadron that will help them out when they piss off the 4,000 members of a mid-sized street gang.

Bah you do not need those. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif) Just take one of Frank's Possession Tradition Mages, with a Rating 6 Guardian Spirit. Clean up in a jiffy. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

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Arethusa
post Mar 23 2008, 06:36 AM
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I was going to make a joke about an air spirit manifesting as an AC130, and then I realized that spectre gunship was a pretty horrible pun.
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Siege
post Mar 23 2008, 08:24 AM
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Which leads back to the original question - how do you picture the Barrens and what makes it dangerous?

The backdrop of "Blackhawk Down" wasn't a perpetual urban warzone, but it degenerated into one very quickly. Not everyone had a weapon, but enough people either worked for a warlord or was interested in coming out to play.

If that's not how you picture the balance of power, then adjust accordingly. But one hard and fast rule to remember - gangs may not like each other, but they like you even less.

You also have to remember, what constitutes "dangerous" to the average wageslave won't make the average runner break his stride. Mugger with a switchblade? C'mon now.

-Siege
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Chrysalis
post Mar 23 2008, 11:23 AM
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Major issues:


No communication. Cell phones do not work. Comms do not work outside of three meters.

Nasty people with weapons. Maybe it is election year and everyone without a SIN is being rounded up for re-education camps. Maybe it is a gang doing the rounding up or one of the many armed forces out there. Maybe the runners are checked...

Road blocks. Everyone has to pay the toll on getting through this section. You don't need anything fancy, an obstacle course made from burning 55 gallon oil drums and old Dodges with 50 caliber machine guns mounted on them for those looking to run the gauntlet. Looking at their expensive gear and car they are willing to only charge 1,000 nuyen a head for going through there.

Mugged. How about being mugged at gun point? Your pretty face who you left to look after the car is naked and tied to the lamp post and your car is missing. Or maybe the face is missing completely except for a fresh red smear on the ground.

Minor issues:

Getting lost. I am sure that street grid ™ and all the other neat conveyances do not work in the barrens. How can you tell one hulking 30 floor, 2 block behemoth of a housing building from the other ten and how to tell which is apartment 1034 block D from apartment 1034 block B?

Having someone follow you. It could be a local gang counting coup or counting heads; street preacher or maybe you do something which offends someone. Going into killing mode might mean that this sudden minor issue becomes a major one.
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tisoz
post Mar 23 2008, 12:20 PM
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I see a lot of suggestions of roadblocks, but I would add the farther into the barrens you go, the worse the streets/roads are. No one has been filling potholes or repaving these roads for decades - they should be about impassable or need an off road vehicle making a lot of skill tests to navigate. Any passable road id going to be subject to the aforementioned roadblocks. If no one actively protects the vehicles once the runners are to the objective, the runners find them disabled upon their return, no matter how briefly they were left, if they find them at all. Which leads to barrens rule number 1.

1. Put the runners on foot.

Someone mentioned toxic waste. I would have a "random encounter" be some corp dumping seen dumping their toxic waste, maybe radioactive waste. The fear of how bad it can be and what the runners may catch is the important thing. Soon the party will be hauling geiger counters as standard equipment on barrens jaunts.

Did something cause the barrens to be formed? Puyallup in Seattle was pretty much caused by being buried in volcanic ash.

Besides shadowrunners and gangs, secret corporate research centers are located in the barrens. More chances for taxic/radioactive/bio waste, plus maybe they the research subject escaped.

Rats and ghouls. Feral dogs and cats. Pools of sludge melting pavement and giving off fumes. Fumes from manhole covers and sewer grates. Strange catlike snarls coming from underground, alleys, and every behind every broken window in pock marked buildings.

2. The environment can kill you. Remind them.

3. No communication. (as mentioned before)

4. Strange Rash when they do get out. (It may or may not clear up on its own.)
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Crusher Bob
post Mar 23 2008, 01:35 PM
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QUOTE (tisoz @ Mar 23 2008, 08:20 PM) *
3. No communication. (as mentioned before)


Even if the team goes in without radios their commlinks should provide communication within their normal signal ranges, its just that you can't connect to the matrix without a signal booster. Of course, most discussions of going into the Barrens seem to assume a much more tactical gear loadout, to include things like tactical radios and shoulder arms.
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ArkonC
post Mar 23 2008, 01:45 PM
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I find it hard to believe there would be no connectivity in the barrens...
Nowadays you've got a signal on your cell pretty much everywhere...
I would assume technology actually advances in the future, so connectivity would not be a problem...

Just my 2 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif)
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DocTaotsu
post Mar 23 2008, 02:16 PM
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I play it as spotty comms with well known deadzones. Some of this can be explained by broken infastructure but some of it can be explained by the powerful people who live in the Barrens who don't want to be bothered. Which leads me to one of my favorites, super secret corps UV research facilities and "Offices of Unethical Development". Be a real bad day to get lost and "find" one of those.

Just because gangers have low resources doesn't mean they can't scrounge up an Azzie Striker if the payoff is going to be worth it. And 20 teenagers with AK's and 40 kids with molotovs can be a real bad day.

ZERG RUSH!
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kzt
post Mar 23 2008, 04:46 PM
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QUOTE (ArkonC @ Mar 23 2008, 06:45 AM) *
I find it hard to believe there would be no connectivity in the barrens...
Nowadays you've got a signal on your cell pretty much everywhere...
I would assume technology actually advances in the future, so connectivity would not be a problem...

In any modern area that would be the case. Comms where you don't have to worry about batteries are clearly going to rely on fairly low power radios. Low power radios depend on having them all over the place, which is how any modern SR area works. In the Barrens you don't have this. You don't even have power. You do have people who will attack things like cell sites and the people who maintain them. Plus low powered radios are line-of-sight, and if you can't see the receiver 8 miles away, you can't talk to it. If you want comms, bring a satcom rig or a large external antenna and amplifier. If you are in the basement of a large building in the barrens you are not going to be talking to anyone you can't see unless you ran a repeater before you went in.
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DocTaotsu
post Mar 23 2008, 04:52 PM
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I think it's also possible that unless you have a better than average Signal that your commlink just isn't designed not to have wireless acces every couple of feet. Dunno if that's supported by fluff though.
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ArkonC
post Mar 23 2008, 04:56 PM
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QUOTE (kzt @ Mar 23 2008, 05:46 PM) *
In any modern area that would be the case. Comms where you don't have to worry about batteries are clearly going to rely on fairly low power radios. Low power radios depend on having them all over the place, which is how any modern SR area works. In the Barrens you don't have this. You don't even have power. You do have people who will attack things like cell sites and the people who maintain them. Plus low powered radios are line-of-sight, and if you can't see the receiver 8 miles away, you can't talk to it. If you want comms, bring a satcom rig or a large external antenna and amplifier. If you are in the basement of a large building in the barrens you are not going to be talking to anyone you can't see unless you ran a repeater before you went in.

And again with my assumptions, I assumed you didn't have to bother with the batteries in the commlinks because it's a hassle and doesn't really add to the roleplaying experience, not because the comms don't need them...
Also, I wouldn't call my cell phone a power hog...
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ludomastro
post Mar 23 2008, 05:17 PM
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I delivered pizza in college for one of the major chains. There two neighborhoods that I was always on the lookout for. One was a housing project where we only delivered during the day, nothing at night. The residents were cool with that. The other neighborhood - also a housing project - was built at the bottom of a bowl shaped depression in a hill. You couldn't see the hospital from the neighborhood nor the neighborhood from the hospital. They were only separated by about 1000 yards (~900 meters). The place was so bad that even the cops only went in in twos. Multiplying that is how I get my idea of the barrens. That said, if you knew people on the inside (and their gang happened to be in charge today) you could get in and out without a problem.

We still didn't deliver there, ever.

-----

On that note, have a delivery service (some new guy that didn't know he was supposed to leave the shipment about three blocks back) attacked while the PCs look on. Have Grandma kicking his teeth in while the grandkids steal the stuff. That should remind them that this is not a nice place. If anyone sees the PCs have the scatter like hyenas when the lion comes around. Once the PCs move on, have them come back only to get attack by a local gang.
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Chrysalis
post Mar 23 2008, 05:20 PM
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Your average commlink has a signal strength of 400m. Without wifi boosters worth a lot they won't operate.

Don't forget electricity most likely runs off of kerosene and propane generators. Roads will demand good cars.

Also then there is the usual things, kids like throwing rocks. And an over pass is the perfect place to drop a curb stone on the windshield of a car for the additional ten points.
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Siege
post Mar 23 2008, 05:51 PM
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QUOTE (Alex @ Mar 23 2008, 05:17 PM) *
I delivered pizza in college for one of the major chains. There two neighborhoods that I was always on the lookout for. One was a housing project where we only delivered during the day, nothing at night. The residents were cool with that. The other neighborhood - also a housing project - was built at the bottom of a bowl shaped depression in a hill. You couldn't see the hospital from the neighborhood nor the neighborhood from the hospital. They were only separated by about 1000 yards (~900 meters). The place was so bad that even the cops only went in in twos. Multiplying that is how I get my idea of the barrens. That said, if you knew people on the inside (and their gang happened to be in charge today) you could get in and out without a problem.

We still didn't deliver there, ever.


Speaking of day jobs for runners...(IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

-Siege
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kzt
post Mar 23 2008, 05:55 PM
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QUOTE (ArkonC @ Mar 23 2008, 09:56 AM) *
Also, I wouldn't call my cell phone a power hog...

If you poke at your cell phone you'll probably find a status menu that shows the signal power. Mine, right now, is -92 dBm. That's .63 nanowatts IIRC. Anyhow the cell site I'm connected to is about a mile away and on the top of a 25 meter pole, with just normal residential buildings around. Wen I go into a commerical building basement I tend to not have a signal.

Consider that in the barrens you don't have any nearby cell sites, you have multi-story concrete and steel buildings and the signals from the cell sites 10 miles away are going to be vastly weakened. So if you climb to the roof you might have a signal, but if you are in the street it is going to be very rare. However, the radios that gangs use will work just fine between buildings when they are coordinating attacks.
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fistandantilus4....
post Mar 23 2008, 06:29 PM
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Remember that the barrens are broken up into little fiefdoms. Going from one area to the other ay not be as easy as simply driving down the road. There may be road blocks built, and actual working cars could well stand out, especially in the real bad z-zones, where a car is just a moing target. Better have real good armor. On foot, you've got to deal with the local bosses and toughs. PCs can do a show of force, but after going through an area once or twice, or a number of different areas, people are going to hear about it if they rock the boat too much, and repare for them. Paying tribute to the local ork or crazies out of Glow City should be the rule rather than the exception.

Also remember that a lot of the social norms aren't going to apply. Alex's post reminded me of the article that was in the paper today about he poor lady that was tortured but her house mates. We're talking having scalding water tossed on her, shot with bb guns, and so beat on a regular basis. This was all because they were keeping her for her social security check, and eventual, surprise , the poor woman died from everything the bastards did to her. The entire family was charged with first degree murder, including the 12 yr old who's being charged as a juvenile. In an area like the Z-zones, where there is no law except survival of the fittest, horrors like this could well be more common than anyone would like to imagine, and the kind of disregard for metahuman life and ethics that the PCs should be exposed to from time to time. Remeber that there's a reason the cops don't go there.
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Trobon
post Mar 23 2008, 07:47 PM
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QUOTE (Crusher Bob @ Mar 22 2008, 09:32 PM) *
People actually live and grow up in the barrens. With the levels of violence most of you are talking about (Blackhawk down all day every day) the barrens would soon only be populated by people smart enough to keep their heads down.

QFE

This is a point I should have made in my post that I forgot. When you think of the Barrens as a dangerous place, keep in mind that it is not dangerous for everyone every moment of the day. It is dangerous because the people who live there can't escape from it, but that is also what makes it not dangerous all of the time. A desperate person will do almost anything to survive, but that means that they will not do something that will end up with them dying for no reason.
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Siege
post Mar 23 2008, 08:04 PM
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Of course, sometimes riots just happen.

-Siege
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Critias
post Mar 23 2008, 08:10 PM
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Like when the Seattle Screamers lose a big Urban Brawl game.

Or when the Seattle Screamers win a big Urban Brawl game.
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fool
post Mar 23 2008, 08:41 PM
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one of my favorite scenes I ever GM'ed was a when my runners were caught in a race riot at Seattle Memorial Hospital. Thousand and thousands of angry and scared racists attacking the hospital and the runners (including a newly purple furred, pink skinned troll changeling) were the only thing protecting the hospital. They barely made it out alive, and had to flee with their tails between their legs, but they did manage to hold of the racists until the authorities could arrive in riot masters.

I think that the thing that makes the barrens really dangerous and scary is the unknown. Even if the runners are from the barrens and have their safe house there (which was often the case with my pc's) they only know and have influence over that one area. What is happening a mile or two away is probably completely beyond their ken.
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cx2
post Mar 23 2008, 09:01 PM
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I have to wonder if Unwired will include at least a passing reference to how much power a commlink has, battery wise... for those situations where you can't recharge.

Also I don't think it would be entirely ridiculous for some gangs to have their own limited wireless connections, but they shouldn't be nearly as ubiquitous as in downtown and might be unreliable. Something of a rarity perhaps, less so for the biggest gangs. Either that or perhaps their wireless connection only allows communication between their own members, especially for bigger or teach heavy gangs.

They might well also have collected odds and ends of nice equipment from runner wanna-bes who have more cred than sense, and there's no accounting for people looking to get into the 2070s Darwin awards (as morbid as that thing is even today). Unpredictability overall really.

And as soon as the PCs show interest in something the local gangs are probably going to want to know why. For all they know it might be worth something, or it might be another gang cobbled together the cred to hire the runners or did them a favour somehow. While this isn't entirely likely while not being impossible, the paranoia level of the gangers even when sober and not stoned could well lead them to suspect this.
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Shrike30
post Mar 23 2008, 09:41 PM
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Disease is huge. Medical care will be spotty and almost nonexistent, meaning that what you'll have is the nasty, virulent forms of whatever is going around this year, and they'll be extensively drug resistant.

Seattle doesn't anything that qualifies as a Barrens right now, and even so, I still work with transient/homeless/prisoner patients who've got disabling respiratory diseases that shrug off antibiotics, wound infections that inflame so badly they lose circulation to extremities, and even the occasional case of tuberculosis, just for old time's sake. Mix into that whatever the corps are testing (on the sly, of course) in the Barrens this week, alongside of whatever cures they're testing (in big, great-for-public-relations efforts) for the epidemics they deliberately started last week, and you've got an amazing breeding ground for whatever the new superbug is going to be.

Crusher Bob's link to the article on Skid Row Staph is a good thing to follow, if you can't imagine how this kind of thing happens. Contact-vector diseases that can be disabling or fatal now can't have improved much in the next 60+ years.
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DocTaotsu
post Mar 23 2008, 10:03 PM
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Forgot to second the disease thing, MRSA (a generalized term for hard to impossible to kill versions of everyday staph or "Skid Row cooties" as the prior article colorfully stated) is a terrible goddamn thing to get. If your players are paying for a high or better lifestyle than I'd assume their healthcare would catch these things and sort them out. But if they didn't put the money up for that lifestyle well... you'd be amazed how long people can rationalize "It's just a ingrown hair, it'll clear up" before they have a golf ball sized infection that excised to reveal something that smells like hot death and looks like cottage cheese. Heck I bet devil rat vectored plague is probably back in vogue this week...

Epidimologists have one of the highest suicide rates in the 6th world... go fig.

I also second the idea for a runner day job that involves high threat pizza delivery.
"Pizza Attttack! Your pie in 20 minutes or it's free! Ask about our Citymaster special!"
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