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jklst14
I am currently running an SR4 campaign which has been going great. In developing the setting (the game is based in Philadelphia), I've emphasized how dangerous the Barrens are, especially the Z zones and the players have understood and respected this.

Now over the course of the last year, the characters have ventured to the Barrens multiple times - to confront a gang, find a enemy's secret hide out, destroy a secret drug lab etc... I still talk about how destitute and dangerous the Barrens are but with all this going back and forth, they no longer really feel that deadly.

I know this is my fault. So what I would like to do is introduce an element of danger. I want the characters to really and truly hesitate before venturing into the worst of neighborhoods. The characters, while competent, are not big or scary. So I feel like it should be risky for them. But I would ideally like to do this without resorting to random encounters (i.e. "Okay, 3d6 gangers show up and attack you at random) which could just bog down the game with non-plot related combat.

Any suggestions on what I can do?





Critias
Have 'em get a few contacts murdered in "random encounters," if you're so hesitant to introduce actual random encounters to make it dangerous to the PCs.

Because, I mean, the simple fact is it is "random encounters" that make real life slums and ghettoes unpleasant/dangerous.
hermit
Make it abundandly clear Technomancers run the barrens and have their cyber hacked every d6 meters by a startup technomancer NPC using threading and sprites to boost their DP beyond insane levels. wink.gif

Other than that, as Critas said. Personally, though, just having contacts offed by GM fiat is something I'd react pretty badly to.
ElFenrir
Well, there are 'contacts' and 'Contacts', IMO. contacts(lowercase c grinbig.gif ) are just those random schmoes you happen to know in game, not friends, not enough pull to even be rating 1 of anything but just...people you know. It might suck if they get offed but the GM isn't killing your main folks at least. Contacts are those official, purchased with BP folks that you actually know and might be your friend. (Then there are actual friends, who may not necessarily be contacts when it comes to gear and the like but are just friends of the PC nonetheless).

Once in awhile, a close contact death CAN happen but don't go letting a PCs hard-earned contacts get mugged every session.
Particle_Beam
Just show them pictures of real-life ghettos and other places where modern polices don't dare venture into. South Africa and Brazil have tons of cities with neighborhoods in desolate states and gangs controlling the very cities. Your players will then know themselves how to let their characters react accordingly. Visualizing helps.
Stahlseele
heck, with things like food-fight where players are expected to carry heavy gear to get their food from the quick-e-mart just think about how the part between home and there must be if the well lit, cam observed shop is like that allready . .
Siege
Answer this question - "What makes the Barrens dangerous?"

Do you mentally picture an urban war zone? Post-apocalyptic hell? Genuinely nasty and lawless urban zone?

It's not enough to make someone wary by saying "Dude, that's dangerous!" But when you go into some detail as to why it's dangerous, the fear then becomes specific rather than generic.

"Random encounters" get a bad reputation because of some of the more amusing D&D scenarios - a more feasible SR application would be to build a table of specific, highly probably encounters within specific areas.

Examples: Gang turf war. Drive bys. Runners get pegged as high dollar targets. Organized crime turf war. Organized crime versus gangs. LS versus everyone. Stray bullet hits random PC.

-Siege
Demonseed Elite
I'd agree with the people here who say that random encounters can actually be the way to go. But they should be well-handled random encounters, because you're right, "3d6 gangers" is just a story speedbump and not really establishing mood or tension. Like Siege said, prepare some random encounters ahead of time, so when you spring them on the runners, they still have some depth to them.

Also, consider the surroundings. When I would have characters involved in runs in the Barrens, I'd make the setting almost another antagonist. Firefights in the Barrens become more dangerous when your gunfire might start off a gang-war, adding more crossfire to the fray. Tangling with NPCs in Glow City carries possible danger of toxic contamination. Just consider that what runners might do anywhere else carries more risk when done in the Barrens.
Aaron
In my opinion, it's all about the tone and setting. You've got to make the place feel dangerous. I'm talking about techniques like hidden Perception Tests, wild dogs eating corpses, packs of devil rats brave enough to watch the PCs from the broken windows of nearby buildings, the sounds of gunfights or torture only a few blocks away, the sounds of an approaching go-gang that never quite makes it into view.

I disagree with the random encounters making the place feel more dangerous. In a random encounter, the players have the power to affect the outcome. On the other hand, if a five-story building collapses nearby, that's something they can't control. You've gotta build the tension. If the players start to relax, that's when you hit them with something dangerous.
bibliophile20
QUOTE (Aaron @ Mar 22 2008, 09:40 AM) *
wild dogs eating corpses,


And the corpses fighting back.

Don't forget to occasionly toss in bits that emphasize that the Awakened world of 2070 isn't friendly to metahumanity; even just having their escape route being closed (in a nicer portion of town) because, to paraphrase 2XS, "something had crawled out of the water, eaten a couple of cars and crawled back."

In the Barrens, have a few Shedim (perhaps occupying the bodies of their recently cacked contacts) trying to snack on them--or having the players pass by what looks like a random gang shakedown of a lost couple... only to turn out to be a pair of shedim, and the gangers are on the losing side. Feral ghouls also work, and a low force free spirit can make an interesting ganger lieutenant.
Lord Ben
Don't make the encounters random. Make them part of the story. If they go into the barrens to wack a drug dealer and his lab put a gang of bikers with SMG's on the road (like 3 of them) and they have a car in the middle. Maybe one of the guys is smoking on the 3rd floor of a nearby building holding an RPG launcher. The cool russion model ones. It's a cool image and even if they have great stats to dodge it they likely won't want it shot at them. They charge a toll or flat out extort money from the PC's. If the PC's just overrun them with combat like they should be able to then it escalates and they have biker gangs chasing them down the road, etc. If they have some $50,000 van maybe the extortion is a simple "Hey, give us 1000 or we'll riddle your van with bullets." or whatever. Spike strips to disable vehicles to steal them, etc....

Make the barrens part of the adventure, not just something to drive past on the way to the target.
kzt
Your profile suggests you live in Philadelphia, PA. Ok, think of the worst neighborhood there and why you don't want to visit it to do illegal business there.

For example, I'll choose the Robert Taylor Homes in Chicago. They are about 15 stores tall, for a frigging WALL along the road for a mile and are chock full of Black Gangster Disciples, etc. You have to go meet a guy there who has some stuff for you. Ok, sound easy.

He's on the 7th floor. The area around the building is open concrete for at least 100 meters, mostly a lot longer then that. A guy on the 15th floor would have LOS for 800 yards typically. There are thousands of empty dark windows looking at you as you approach. How many have someone watching you, with a rifle or a spell? There are lots of unfriendly looking young kids milling about, pointing at you, offering you drugs and crap and talking to someone else on a comlink.

You get the to the building. (Is it the RIGHT building?) The only entrance is in the middle of the long axis of the building, the windows for the first 3 stores are heavily barred. The glass doors are long gone. There are no lights. The place smalls of piss and crap. The elevators don't work. There are a half dozen hardguys playing craps in the dimmly lit lobby. Or were, they are standing behind large heavy objects and you can't see their hands. "What the fuck do you want? says the guy with a comlink.

Your players going to shoot them up, then climb 7 flights of stairs (ever seen how grenades work rolling down stairs?), talk to this guy, then try to climb back down 7 flights of stairs and stroll across the several hundred yards of open ground and get in their car (which they guarded how?) and drive away without incident? How long does it take to walk up 7 flights of stairs covered with disgusting slippery stuff?

What says that something didn't happen to the guy they want to meet and they get to try to fight their way out after the ambush? Or it's the wrong building... Or soemone in another building decides to fuck with you, because they are run by different gangs, and you are disrespecting them. Life is CHEAP there, and they will try to kill you over the way you looked at them. And just because he's a ganger doesn't mean the he doesn't have a scoped hunting rifle with an improvised silencer and a used smartlink, agil 4, 4 skill levels and aiming for 4 IPs.
Snow_Fox
To build on what people have said. I'd say the real problem is that you're characters are going in and delaing with the problem and getting out wihtout facing any other problems. I mean if you're dealing with a gang, are they the first gangs territory they enter? I mean to reach the Blood drippers don't they have to go through the Spike Wheel territory? so what do the spike Wheels (or whomever) require for a toll?

For a RL example when I was working in the Bronx, if I had to go to the records office, I had to time my approach. It was and is right next to a methadone clinic. I'd time my approach for a window between 9:30-10. This allowed the clinic to open it's doors and the skells get their fix. Otherwise they were mulling aorund in the street and being more than a litlte unpleasant. After 10 the street would get clogged by trucks, double parked, to off load their wares at stores.

Even if they have a plan in or out, what if they can't follwo it and have to go into an unknown area-new gangs, toxic waste etc.
"What are you doing, go left on miller"
"I can't"
"Why?"
"There's a corp gunship with a mini-gun hosing up the intersection."
"What? Why?"
"I don't know, you go ask them."

or randome acts of violence. They're moving down the street and someone drives by screaming something "Warriors come out to Playyyy!" comes to mind. Or just a random rifle shot goes by their heads. "what the flock?" or a group is seen dancing round a fire in a 55 gal drum. Nothing else but a properly paranoid group will assume something big's going down, when it's not.

Lastly, there's 'what a coinsidence..." the same lot/wharehouse you're having your meet is where a group of mafioso/yakuza/gangers/runners are having their own ,completely seperate meet.
Critias
Hahahah. "Skells." I haven't heard that in forever. You're the best, 'Fox. smile.gif
Siege
QUOTE (bibliophile20 @ Mar 22 2008, 03:59 PM) *
And the corpses fighting back.

Don't forget to occasionly toss in bits that emphasize that the Awakened world of 2070 isn't friendly to metahumanity; even just having their escape route being closed (in a nicer portion of town) because, to paraphrase 2XS, "something had crawled out of the water, eaten a couple of cars and crawled back."

In the Barrens, have a few Shedim (perhaps occupying the bodies of their recently cacked contacts) trying to snack on them--or having the players pass by what looks like a random gang shakedown of a lost couple... only to turn out to be a pair of shedim, and the gangers are on the losing side. Feral ghouls also work, and a low force free spirit can make an interesting ganger lieutenant.


Yes.

I love that quote and I've always felt SR didn't have enough by way of "what the frag?" moments in terms of ill-defined and paranormal creepies.

But I also gotta emphasize planning. A massive firefight, while entertaining, can seriously bog down a planned adventure and take up a good portion of the evening.

Your average runner might sport more weapons and 'ware than a UCAS Ranger platoon, but snipers suck. A lot. Take a serious look at "Blackhawk Down" for an example of how little it can take to seriously FUBAR anything. A kid with an AK doesn't have to be all that accurate to seriously ruin your day and don't underestimate the ability for locals to spot strangers out of place and not sporting gang colors - or worse, the wrong gang colors.

-Siege
fool
one thing no one seems to have mentioned is the threats that you can't really detect or do much about. Diseases. VITAS V, FAB IV and V (make that one up yourself) The insidious part is that the PC's don't know they've been infected until some time later, and then they don't know exactly which trip into the barrens caused them to get sick. But if they put their brain power to it, they'll figure out that most of those diseases are limited to places without med care.
If you want a good random encounter generator, start with sprawl sites and modify it. Some of their encounters were fraggin hilarious, and could be a hook for it's own adventure, or a red herring on an existing one.
Adarael
Here's one big one it seems like people forget about...
So your runners are coming and going without a problem. Honestly, if they're in a semi-tough vehicle, that's the way it ought to be, because armored cars are supposed to protect you.

But what if they can't get out of the barrens? What if homeless or gangers see them go in and push debris and burned out car hulks in the way of their exit? What if they get mobbed not be 3d6 gangers, but by fifty, sixty desparate people who have broken pipes, boards with nails, serious infections, bad attitudes, and nothing to lose?

Make your runners burn through their ammo killing schmoes, so their fancy smartguns are just large hunks of expensive metal. Then when the guns are empty and the chips are down, the gangers - the ones not desparate enough to rush headlong at armed men - pull out their guns and come to play, and start picking the runners apart.

Even if you don't want things to get that dire, just remember - the worst part about the barrens is that the people who live there can't escape it. Give the runners a taste of that.
kindalas
Have a pack of street urchins attack the players armed with sticks, knives, bats and the occasional gun.

Think of it as a zergling rush but with children.

Nothing will put the fear of god into characters like being forced to gun down 20-50 near starving cannibalistic children while attempting to meet a contact.

For added effect have the various possessions of that contact spread out amongst the children.
Siege
Or children held under the sway of something ickier.

And combat drugs.

Hmmm...

-Siege
Trobon
I think the movie Black Hawk Down is a good way of looking at the barrens. The people there will probably be a little less well equipped (although this varies), but the point is the same. Even if your runners have a nice vehicle and good weapons there are a lot of desperate and sometimes angry people in the barrens and they are willing to do almost anything to get to you. Traveling through there might mean facing a rocket launcher because honestly the resources required to get a single shot rocket launcher is probably less than they're going to get salvaging the remains of a runner team. It could also mean facing swarms of people with small arms and knives or pieces of weaponry salvaged from the last runner crew to come through the barrens.
kindalas
QUOTE (Siege @ Mar 22 2008, 07:54 PM) *
Or children held under the sway of something ickier.

And combat drugs.

Hmmm...

-Siege


I think it would be freakier to find out that the children work attacking on their own.

But they could have combat drugs.

What would be really nice is if the runners had say been responsible for a nearby orphanage being shut down because of something nasty, say Ghoul ownership, and the majority of the starving children that they were shooting at were wearing the remains of the uniforms, burlap sacks, from said orphanages.
StormWatcher
in my games, a run into any barren is generally an all out mini adventure/run-
random encounter's sadly are a way to illustrate some of this-and they are not
always directed at them-if for instance the group contains a heroic helper of the people,
then of course it becomes their encounter as well-
playing up on filth, vermin, poverty, etc-along with showing glimpses of what could be
this or that stalking them in the shadows for whatever chrome they might have dangling
about to push paranoia is good as well.
ahhh, the random times i throw dice just to make them think it is a perception check..
well, some of those rolls are real, but you get the point.

Unless you are just trying to quickly push out a quick session and just need
to segway(spelling?)barrens should almost be remembered-
my players HATE going into Glow City, let me tell you.
jklst14
Thanks for everyone's input. Certainly lots of great ideas here.
Crusher Bob
Sigh.

Long term survival as a predator requires a conservative mindset. If you get wounded taking something/someone down then you will usually die horribly at some point down the road. This means that you want to stack the odds as much in your favour as possible. Sure you could attack that group of heavily armed guys, but what would it really get you but dead? Why not get a few mates together and take out that poor family where the parents have gotten sick, and you can do whatever you want with their children afterwards? Much safer.

People actually live and grow up in the barrens. With the levels of violence most of you are talking about (Blackhawk down all day every day) the barrens would soon only be populated by people smart enough to keep their heads down.

---------

How then to make the barrens somewhat dangerous (or, at least, unpleasant to be in) without the PCs needing to break out the crew served weapons?

1
The barrens change. Gangs rise and fall, buildings collapse, streets are cleared or blocked off, squatter camps move around. Unless the PCs are plugged into what going on then they will have real trouble finding their way around. Maybe they can hire a native guide but how do they know the guide is not leading them into an ambush? They could also go the high tech solution and use airborne drones to find their way around.

2
Blood draws in the sharks
The PCs in a tight group, armed to the teeth, and so on will not be bothered. But if they look weak or wounded, expect the predators to start moving in.

3
Larceny
While the residents of the barrens are not likely to attack the PCs and take their stuff, they are more that willing to pick their pockets, steal anything they leave behind for a few minutes (like parked cars), or just go through their pockets when they gets konked on the head.

4
News of their crimes can travel amazingly fast
If the PCs do something bad in the barrens, expect the news to get around fast. Sure the residents still might not be willing to take out those guys who killed all those orphans, but they are willing to dump pots of boiling water out the window onto them as they walk past. A gallon pot of boiling water dumped on your head from a second floor window is going to be no fun at all. Sure the PCs could return fire for that, but making too much trouble will lead to Blackhawk down, and hundreds of guys with cheap weapons will still ruin the PCs day.

5
Health and hygiene
Are the PCs up to date on their immunizations? Was anyone foolish enough to take the 'weakened immune system' flaw? Any of them allergic of something? Take a look at Skid Row staph. Sure the PCs got away from that gunfight in the barrens just fine, except now you have a horrible infection in your bones. A visit to the street doc where a PC has to get cut open and a bunch of infected bone marrow sucked out might scare them much more that a simple gunfight ever could.
Did they drink the water or buy some local food? hahahahaha use your mighty google-fu to come up with some horrible African parasite. They've got them now. Time for a graphic trip to the street doc.
Make those guys who paid for stuff like the immune system boosterware and the iron gut adept powers get their moneys worth.

6
Kids trying to provoke an incident
Sure most of the barrens adults don't want to deal with a team of heavily armed runners just minding their own business, but what about those packs of street kids who want to show how tough they are? The kinds might try stuff like shouting insults, throwing rocks, garbage, dead rats, human waste, or anything else to get a rise out of the runners. If the runners give chase, then maybe they'll just loose in kids in the warrens as the small children take shortcuts that someone full grown could never fit through. Or they could run right into an ambush. If the runners just open fire, see #4. And this way it's not horrible GM fiat they gets them killed, after all, they didn't have to gun those kids down, now did they? The face could have just turned the other cheek when globs of human waste ran in rivulets down his 5000Y high fashion armored coat...

7
Appeal to their humanity, if they have any
If the PCs look rich, expect them to be followed by beggars, prostitutes, and all manner of people trying to sell them something (and expect the pickpockets to be blending into the crowd). Depending on how comfortable your players are with such things, you can have fun describing all sorts of new lows for humanity to sink to. Mothers holding horribly sick, hurt, or deformed babies and asking for money (and quite often they inflicted the hurt or deformity on the child themselves, to boost their begging ability), child prostitutes offers services so depraved the PCs have never even heard of them before. And if the PCs do help some poor chumps out, describe how the person they just helped out is ganked for whatever they gave away a few minutes later.
Some horrible crime is happening in a alley as they walk by, are they going to do anything about it?
Some accident happens across the street, the PCs with their healing magic (or just near magic 2070 medkits) could probably fix that guys broken legs with a wave of their hands. Will they?
Arethusa
It is additionally worth noting that if you do stir up the hornets' nest, you may have Blackhawk Down fantasies, but air support was pretty much the reason Blackhawk Down was a rousing tale of camaraderie and survival in the face of insurmountable odds and not a tale of a bunch of guys who got boxed into a corner and killed. In many respects, extremely violent places can be manageably safe if you're well armed and know what you're doing (ie you don't attract attention, you watch eachother's backs, and you pay your way at checkpoints to keep moving quickly); they can turn lethal very quickly if you don't. Most of the danger of these places is borne by the people who have to live in them daily, however, and that's just as true of the Barrens as it is Baghdad or Woodlawn or South Central.

I pretty much agree with the rest of Crusher's points, though 4 is a bit slapstick. However, word will travel quickly, and real problems can start up (everything from cabs avoiding you to pickpockets not avoiding you to gangs organizing to bar you entry to their communities).

I think it's also worth pointing out that making the Barrens dangerous does not necessarily mean making it dangerous for the players (though it should be in some cases). There are plenty of other people in the world that it is dangerous for, and making that world living and very depressing and bleak is an important job for the GM.
kzt
Yep. Not many runners have a squadron of Delta operators, a Ranger company and an elite helicopter squadron that will help them out when they piss off the 4,000 members of a mid-sized street gang.
Critias
Hah! Maybe not in your games, loser! wink.gif
WearzManySkins
QUOTE (kzt @ Mar 23 2008, 12:07 AM) *
Yep. Not many runners have a squadron of Delta operators, a Ranger company and an elite helicopter squadron that will help them out when they piss off the 4,000 members of a mid-sized street gang.

Bah you do not need those. rotfl.gif Just take one of Frank's Possession Tradition Mages, with a Rating 6 Guardian Spirit. Clean up in a jiffy. grinbig.gif

WMS
Arethusa
I was going to make a joke about an air spirit manifesting as an AC130, and then I realized that spectre gunship was a pretty horrible pun.
Siege
Which leads back to the original question - how do you picture the Barrens and what makes it dangerous?

The backdrop of "Blackhawk Down" wasn't a perpetual urban warzone, but it degenerated into one very quickly. Not everyone had a weapon, but enough people either worked for a warlord or was interested in coming out to play.

If that's not how you picture the balance of power, then adjust accordingly. But one hard and fast rule to remember - gangs may not like each other, but they like you even less.

You also have to remember, what constitutes "dangerous" to the average wageslave won't make the average runner break his stride. Mugger with a switchblade? C'mon now.

-Siege
Chrysalis
Major issues:


No communication. Cell phones do not work. Comms do not work outside of three meters.

Nasty people with weapons. Maybe it is election year and everyone without a SIN is being rounded up for re-education camps. Maybe it is a gang doing the rounding up or one of the many armed forces out there. Maybe the runners are checked...

Road blocks. Everyone has to pay the toll on getting through this section. You don't need anything fancy, an obstacle course made from burning 55 gallon oil drums and old Dodges with 50 caliber machine guns mounted on them for those looking to run the gauntlet. Looking at their expensive gear and car they are willing to only charge 1,000 nuyen a head for going through there.

Mugged. How about being mugged at gun point? Your pretty face who you left to look after the car is naked and tied to the lamp post and your car is missing. Or maybe the face is missing completely except for a fresh red smear on the ground.

Minor issues:

Getting lost. I am sure that street grid ™ and all the other neat conveyances do not work in the barrens. How can you tell one hulking 30 floor, 2 block behemoth of a housing building from the other ten and how to tell which is apartment 1034 block D from apartment 1034 block B?

Having someone follow you. It could be a local gang counting coup or counting heads; street preacher or maybe you do something which offends someone. Going into killing mode might mean that this sudden minor issue becomes a major one.
tisoz
I see a lot of suggestions of roadblocks, but I would add the farther into the barrens you go, the worse the streets/roads are. No one has been filling potholes or repaving these roads for decades - they should be about impassable or need an off road vehicle making a lot of skill tests to navigate. Any passable road id going to be subject to the aforementioned roadblocks. If no one actively protects the vehicles once the runners are to the objective, the runners find them disabled upon their return, no matter how briefly they were left, if they find them at all. Which leads to barrens rule number 1.

1. Put the runners on foot.

Someone mentioned toxic waste. I would have a "random encounter" be some corp dumping seen dumping their toxic waste, maybe radioactive waste. The fear of how bad it can be and what the runners may catch is the important thing. Soon the party will be hauling geiger counters as standard equipment on barrens jaunts.

Did something cause the barrens to be formed? Puyallup in Seattle was pretty much caused by being buried in volcanic ash.

Besides shadowrunners and gangs, secret corporate research centers are located in the barrens. More chances for taxic/radioactive/bio waste, plus maybe they the research subject escaped.

Rats and ghouls. Feral dogs and cats. Pools of sludge melting pavement and giving off fumes. Fumes from manhole covers and sewer grates. Strange catlike snarls coming from underground, alleys, and every behind every broken window in pock marked buildings.

2. The environment can kill you. Remind them.

3. No communication. (as mentioned before)

4. Strange Rash when they do get out. (It may or may not clear up on its own.)
Crusher Bob
QUOTE (tisoz @ Mar 23 2008, 08:20 PM) *
3. No communication. (as mentioned before)


Even if the team goes in without radios their commlinks should provide communication within their normal signal ranges, its just that you can't connect to the matrix without a signal booster. Of course, most discussions of going into the Barrens seem to assume a much more tactical gear loadout, to include things like tactical radios and shoulder arms.
ArkonC
I find it hard to believe there would be no connectivity in the barrens...
Nowadays you've got a signal on your cell pretty much everywhere...
I would assume technology actually advances in the future, so connectivity would not be a problem...

Just my 2 nuyen.gif
DocTaotsu
I play it as spotty comms with well known deadzones. Some of this can be explained by broken infastructure but some of it can be explained by the powerful people who live in the Barrens who don't want to be bothered. Which leads me to one of my favorites, super secret corps UV research facilities and "Offices of Unethical Development". Be a real bad day to get lost and "find" one of those.

Just because gangers have low resources doesn't mean they can't scrounge up an Azzie Striker if the payoff is going to be worth it. And 20 teenagers with AK's and 40 kids with molotovs can be a real bad day.

ZERG RUSH!
kzt
QUOTE (ArkonC @ Mar 23 2008, 06:45 AM) *
I find it hard to believe there would be no connectivity in the barrens...
Nowadays you've got a signal on your cell pretty much everywhere...
I would assume technology actually advances in the future, so connectivity would not be a problem...

In any modern area that would be the case. Comms where you don't have to worry about batteries are clearly going to rely on fairly low power radios. Low power radios depend on having them all over the place, which is how any modern SR area works. In the Barrens you don't have this. You don't even have power. You do have people who will attack things like cell sites and the people who maintain them. Plus low powered radios are line-of-sight, and if you can't see the receiver 8 miles away, you can't talk to it. If you want comms, bring a satcom rig or a large external antenna and amplifier. If you are in the basement of a large building in the barrens you are not going to be talking to anyone you can't see unless you ran a repeater before you went in.
DocTaotsu
I think it's also possible that unless you have a better than average Signal that your commlink just isn't designed not to have wireless acces every couple of feet. Dunno if that's supported by fluff though.
ArkonC
QUOTE (kzt @ Mar 23 2008, 05:46 PM) *
In any modern area that would be the case. Comms where you don't have to worry about batteries are clearly going to rely on fairly low power radios. Low power radios depend on having them all over the place, which is how any modern SR area works. In the Barrens you don't have this. You don't even have power. You do have people who will attack things like cell sites and the people who maintain them. Plus low powered radios are line-of-sight, and if you can't see the receiver 8 miles away, you can't talk to it. If you want comms, bring a satcom rig or a large external antenna and amplifier. If you are in the basement of a large building in the barrens you are not going to be talking to anyone you can't see unless you ran a repeater before you went in.

And again with my assumptions, I assumed you didn't have to bother with the batteries in the commlinks because it's a hassle and doesn't really add to the roleplaying experience, not because the comms don't need them...
Also, I wouldn't call my cell phone a power hog...
ludomastro
I delivered pizza in college for one of the major chains. There two neighborhoods that I was always on the lookout for. One was a housing project where we only delivered during the day, nothing at night. The residents were cool with that. The other neighborhood - also a housing project - was built at the bottom of a bowl shaped depression in a hill. You couldn't see the hospital from the neighborhood nor the neighborhood from the hospital. They were only separated by about 1000 yards (~900 meters). The place was so bad that even the cops only went in in twos. Multiplying that is how I get my idea of the barrens. That said, if you knew people on the inside (and their gang happened to be in charge today) you could get in and out without a problem.

We still didn't deliver there, ever.

-----

On that note, have a delivery service (some new guy that didn't know he was supposed to leave the shipment about three blocks back) attacked while the PCs look on. Have Grandma kicking his teeth in while the grandkids steal the stuff. That should remind them that this is not a nice place. If anyone sees the PCs have the scatter like hyenas when the lion comes around. Once the PCs move on, have them come back only to get attack by a local gang.
Chrysalis
Your average commlink has a signal strength of 400m. Without wifi boosters worth a lot they won't operate.

Don't forget electricity most likely runs off of kerosene and propane generators. Roads will demand good cars.

Also then there is the usual things, kids like throwing rocks. And an over pass is the perfect place to drop a curb stone on the windshield of a car for the additional ten points.
Siege
QUOTE (Alex @ Mar 23 2008, 05:17 PM) *
I delivered pizza in college for one of the major chains. There two neighborhoods that I was always on the lookout for. One was a housing project where we only delivered during the day, nothing at night. The residents were cool with that. The other neighborhood - also a housing project - was built at the bottom of a bowl shaped depression in a hill. You couldn't see the hospital from the neighborhood nor the neighborhood from the hospital. They were only separated by about 1000 yards (~900 meters). The place was so bad that even the cops only went in in twos. Multiplying that is how I get my idea of the barrens. That said, if you knew people on the inside (and their gang happened to be in charge today) you could get in and out without a problem.

We still didn't deliver there, ever.


Speaking of day jobs for runners...grinbig.gif

-Siege
kzt
QUOTE (ArkonC @ Mar 23 2008, 09:56 AM) *
Also, I wouldn't call my cell phone a power hog...

If you poke at your cell phone you'll probably find a status menu that shows the signal power. Mine, right now, is -92 dBm. That's .63 nanowatts IIRC. Anyhow the cell site I'm connected to is about a mile away and on the top of a 25 meter pole, with just normal residential buildings around. Wen I go into a commerical building basement I tend to not have a signal.

Consider that in the barrens you don't have any nearby cell sites, you have multi-story concrete and steel buildings and the signals from the cell sites 10 miles away are going to be vastly weakened. So if you climb to the roof you might have a signal, but if you are in the street it is going to be very rare. However, the radios that gangs use will work just fine between buildings when they are coordinating attacks.
fistandantilus4.0
Remember that the barrens are broken up into little fiefdoms. Going from one area to the other ay not be as easy as simply driving down the road. There may be road blocks built, and actual working cars could well stand out, especially in the real bad z-zones, where a car is just a moing target. Better have real good armor. On foot, you've got to deal with the local bosses and toughs. PCs can do a show of force, but after going through an area once or twice, or a number of different areas, people are going to hear about it if they rock the boat too much, and repare for them. Paying tribute to the local ork or crazies out of Glow City should be the rule rather than the exception.

Also remember that a lot of the social norms aren't going to apply. Alex's post reminded me of the article that was in the paper today about he poor lady that was tortured but her house mates. We're talking having scalding water tossed on her, shot with bb guns, and so beat on a regular basis. This was all because they were keeping her for her social security check, and eventual, surprise , the poor woman died from everything the bastards did to her. The entire family was charged with first degree murder, including the 12 yr old who's being charged as a juvenile. In an area like the Z-zones, where there is no law except survival of the fittest, horrors like this could well be more common than anyone would like to imagine, and the kind of disregard for metahuman life and ethics that the PCs should be exposed to from time to time. Remeber that there's a reason the cops don't go there.
Trobon
QUOTE (Crusher Bob @ Mar 22 2008, 09:32 PM) *
People actually live and grow up in the barrens. With the levels of violence most of you are talking about (Blackhawk down all day every day) the barrens would soon only be populated by people smart enough to keep their heads down.

QFE

This is a point I should have made in my post that I forgot. When you think of the Barrens as a dangerous place, keep in mind that it is not dangerous for everyone every moment of the day. It is dangerous because the people who live there can't escape from it, but that is also what makes it not dangerous all of the time. A desperate person will do almost anything to survive, but that means that they will not do something that will end up with them dying for no reason.
Siege
Of course, sometimes riots just happen.

-Siege
Critias
Like when the Seattle Screamers lose a big Urban Brawl game.

Or when the Seattle Screamers win a big Urban Brawl game.
fool
one of my favorite scenes I ever GM'ed was a when my runners were caught in a race riot at Seattle Memorial Hospital. Thousand and thousands of angry and scared racists attacking the hospital and the runners (including a newly purple furred, pink skinned troll changeling) were the only thing protecting the hospital. They barely made it out alive, and had to flee with their tails between their legs, but they did manage to hold of the racists until the authorities could arrive in riot masters.

I think that the thing that makes the barrens really dangerous and scary is the unknown. Even if the runners are from the barrens and have their safe house there (which was often the case with my pc's) they only know and have influence over that one area. What is happening a mile or two away is probably completely beyond their ken.
cx2
I have to wonder if Unwired will include at least a passing reference to how much power a commlink has, battery wise... for those situations where you can't recharge.

Also I don't think it would be entirely ridiculous for some gangs to have their own limited wireless connections, but they shouldn't be nearly as ubiquitous as in downtown and might be unreliable. Something of a rarity perhaps, less so for the biggest gangs. Either that or perhaps their wireless connection only allows communication between their own members, especially for bigger or teach heavy gangs.

They might well also have collected odds and ends of nice equipment from runner wanna-bes who have more cred than sense, and there's no accounting for people looking to get into the 2070s Darwin awards (as morbid as that thing is even today). Unpredictability overall really.

And as soon as the PCs show interest in something the local gangs are probably going to want to know why. For all they know it might be worth something, or it might be another gang cobbled together the cred to hire the runners or did them a favour somehow. While this isn't entirely likely while not being impossible, the paranoia level of the gangers even when sober and not stoned could well lead them to suspect this.
Shrike30
Disease is huge. Medical care will be spotty and almost nonexistent, meaning that what you'll have is the nasty, virulent forms of whatever is going around this year, and they'll be extensively drug resistant.

Seattle doesn't anything that qualifies as a Barrens right now, and even so, I still work with transient/homeless/prisoner patients who've got disabling respiratory diseases that shrug off antibiotics, wound infections that inflame so badly they lose circulation to extremities, and even the occasional case of tuberculosis, just for old time's sake. Mix into that whatever the corps are testing (on the sly, of course) in the Barrens this week, alongside of whatever cures they're testing (in big, great-for-public-relations efforts) for the epidemics they deliberately started last week, and you've got an amazing breeding ground for whatever the new superbug is going to be.

Crusher Bob's link to the article on Skid Row Staph is a good thing to follow, if you can't imagine how this kind of thing happens. Contact-vector diseases that can be disabling or fatal now can't have improved much in the next 60+ years.
DocTaotsu
Forgot to second the disease thing, MRSA (a generalized term for hard to impossible to kill versions of everyday staph or "Skid Row cooties" as the prior article colorfully stated) is a terrible goddamn thing to get. If your players are paying for a high or better lifestyle than I'd assume their healthcare would catch these things and sort them out. But if they didn't put the money up for that lifestyle well... you'd be amazed how long people can rationalize "It's just a ingrown hair, it'll clear up" before they have a golf ball sized infection that excised to reveal something that smells like hot death and looks like cottage cheese. Heck I bet devil rat vectored plague is probably back in vogue this week...

Epidimologists have one of the highest suicide rates in the 6th world... go fig.

I also second the idea for a runner day job that involves high threat pizza delivery.
"Pizza Attttack! Your pie in 20 minutes or it's free! Ask about our Citymaster special!"
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