How can I make the Barrens dangerous again?, Without resorting to random encounters... Options

[jklst14]

I am currently running an SR4 campaign which has been going great. In developing the setting (the game is based in Philadelphia), I've emphasized how dangerous the Barrens are, especially the Z zones and the players have understood and respected this.

Now over the course of the last year, the characters have ventured to the Barrens multiple times - to confront a gang, find a enemy's secret hide out, destroy a secret drug lab etc... I still talk about how destitute and dangerous the Barrens are but with all this going back and forth, they no longer really feel that deadly.

I know this is my fault. So what I would like to do is introduce an element of danger. I want the characters to really and truly hesitate before venturing into the worst of neighborhoods. The characters, while competent, are not big or scary. So I feel like it should be risky for them. But I would ideally like to do this without resorting to random encounters (i.e. "Okay, 3d6 gangers show up and attack you at random) which could just bog down the game with non-plot related combat.

Any suggestions on what I can do?

[Critias]

Have 'em get a few contacts murdered in "random encounters," if you're so hesitant to introduce actual random encounters to make it dangerous to the PCs.

Because, I mean, the simple fact is it is "random encounters" that make real life slums and ghettoes unpleasant/dangerous.

[hermit]

Make it abundandly clear Technomancers run the barrens and have their cyber hacked every d6 meters by a startup technomancer NPC using threading and sprites to boost their DP beyond insane levels. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Other than that, as Critas said. Personally, though, just having contacts offed by GM fiat is something I'd react pretty badly to.

[ElFenrir]

Well, there are 'contacts' and 'Contacts', IMO. contacts(lowercase c (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) ) are just those random schmoes you happen to know in game, not friends, not enough pull to even be rating 1 of anything but just...people you know. It might suck if they get offed but the GM isn't killing your main folks at least. Contacts are those official, purchased with BP folks that you actually know and might be your friend. (Then there are actual friends, who may not necessarily be contacts when it comes to gear and the like but are just friends of the PC nonetheless).

Once in awhile, a close contact death CAN happen but don't go letting a PCs hard-earned contacts get mugged every session.

[Particle_Beam]

Just show them pictures of real-life ghettos and other places where modern polices don't dare venture into. South Africa and Brazil have tons of cities with neighborhoods in desolate states and gangs controlling the very cities. Your players will then know themselves how to let their characters react accordingly. Visualizing helps.

[Stahlseele]

heck, with things like food-fight where players are expected to carry heavy gear to get their food from the quick-e-mart just think about how the part between home and there must be if the well lit, cam observed shop is like that allready . .

[Siege]

Answer this question - "What makes the Barrens dangerous?"

Do you mentally picture an urban war zone? Post-apocalyptic hell? Genuinely nasty and lawless urban zone?

It's not enough to make someone wary by saying "Dude, that's dangerous!" But when you go into some detail as to why it's dangerous, the fear then becomes specific rather than generic.

"Random encounters" get a bad reputation because of some of the more amusing D&D scenarios - a more feasible SR application would be to build a table of specific, highly probably encounters within specific areas.

Examples: Gang turf war. Drive bys. Runners get pegged as high dollar targets. Organized crime turf war. Organized crime versus gangs. LS versus everyone. Stray bullet hits random PC.

-Siege

[Demonseed Elite]

I'd agree with the people here who say that random encounters can actually be the way to go. But they should be well-handled random encounters, because you're right, "3d6 gangers" is just a story speedbump and not really establishing mood or tension. Like Siege said, prepare some random encounters ahead of time, so when you spring them on the runners, they still have some depth to them.

Also, consider the surroundings. When I would have characters involved in runs in the Barrens, I'd make the setting almost another antagonist. Firefights in the Barrens become more dangerous when your gunfire might start off a gang-war, adding more crossfire to the fray. Tangling with NPCs in Glow City carries possible danger of toxic contamination. Just consider that what runners might do anywhere else carries more risk when done in the Barrens.

[Aaron]

In my opinion, it's all about the tone and setting. You've got to make the place feel dangerous. I'm talking about techniques like hidden Perception Tests, wild dogs eating corpses, packs of devil rats brave enough to watch the PCs from the broken windows of nearby buildings, the sounds of gunfights or torture only a few blocks away, the sounds of an approaching go-gang that never quite makes it into view.

I disagree with the random encounters making the place feel more dangerous. In a random encounter, the players have the power to affect the outcome. On the other hand, if a five-story building collapses nearby, that's something they can't control. You've gotta build the tension. If the players start to relax, that's when you hit them with something dangerous.

[bibliophile20]

wild dogs eating corpses,

And the corpses fighting back.

Don't forget to occasionly toss in bits that emphasize that the Awakened world of 2070 isn't friendly to metahumanity; even just having their escape route being closed (in a nicer portion of town) because, to paraphrase 2XS, "something had crawled out of the water, eaten a couple of cars and crawled back."

In the Barrens, have a few Shedim (perhaps occupying the bodies of their recently cacked contacts) trying to snack on them--or having the players pass by what looks like a random gang shakedown of a lost couple... only to turn out to be a pair of shedim, and the gangers are on the losing side. Feral ghouls also work, and a low force free spirit can make an interesting ganger lieutenant.

[Lord Ben]

Don't make the encounters random. Make them part of the story. If they go into the barrens to wack a drug dealer and his lab put a gang of bikers with SMG's on the road (like 3 of them) and they have a car in the middle. Maybe one of the guys is smoking on the 3rd floor of a nearby building holding an RPG launcher. The cool russion model ones. It's a cool image and even if they have great stats to dodge it they likely won't want it shot at them. They charge a toll or flat out extort money from the PC's. If the PC's just overrun them with combat like they should be able to then it escalates and they have biker gangs chasing them down the road, etc. If they have some $50,000 van maybe the extortion is a simple "Hey, give us 1000 or we'll riddle your van with bullets." or whatever. Spike strips to disable vehicles to steal them, etc....

Make the barrens part of the adventure, not just something to drive past on the way to the target.

[kzt]

Your profile suggests you live in Philadelphia, PA. Ok, think of the worst neighborhood there and why you don't want to visit it to do illegal business there.

For example, I'll choose the Robert Taylor Homes in Chicago. They are about 15 stores tall, for a frigging WALL along the road for a mile and are chock full of Black Gangster Disciples, etc. You have to go meet a guy there who has some stuff for you. Ok, sound easy.

He's on the 7th floor. The area around the building is open concrete for at least 100 meters, mostly a lot longer then that. A guy on the 15th floor would have LOS for 800 yards typically. There are thousands of empty dark windows looking at you as you approach. How many have someone watching you, with a rifle or a spell? There are lots of unfriendly looking young kids milling about, pointing at you, offering you drugs and crap and talking to someone else on a comlink.

You get the to the building. (Is it the RIGHT building?) The only entrance is in the middle of the long axis of the building, the windows for the first 3 stores are heavily barred. The glass doors are long gone. There are no lights. The place smalls of piss and crap. The elevators don't work. There are a half dozen hardguys playing craps in the dimmly lit lobby. Or were, they are standing behind large heavy objects and you can't see their hands. "What the fuck do you want? says the guy with a comlink.

Your players going to shoot them up, then climb 7 flights of stairs (ever seen how grenades work rolling down stairs?), talk to this guy, then try to climb back down 7 flights of stairs and stroll across the several hundred yards of open ground and get in their car (which they guarded how?) and drive away without incident? How long does it take to walk up 7 flights of stairs covered with disgusting slippery stuff?

What says that something didn't happen to the guy they want to meet and they get to try to fight their way out after the ambush? Or it's the wrong building... Or soemone in another building decides to fuck with you, because they are run by different gangs, and you are disrespecting them. Life is CHEAP there, and they will try to kill you over the way you looked at them. And just because he's a ganger doesn't mean the he doesn't have a scoped hunting rifle with an improvised silencer and a used smartlink, agil 4, 4 skill levels and aiming for 4 IPs.

[Snow_Fox]

To build on what people have said. I'd say the real problem is that you're characters are going in and delaing with the problem and getting out wihtout facing any other problems. I mean if you're dealing with a gang, are they the first gangs territory they enter? I mean to reach the Blood drippers don't they have to go through the Spike Wheel territory? so what do the spike Wheels (or whomever) require for a toll?

For a RL example when I was working in the Bronx, if I had to go to the records office, I had to time my approach. It was and is right next to a methadone clinic. I'd time my approach for a window between 9:30-10. This allowed the clinic to open it's doors and the skells get their fix. Otherwise they were mulling aorund in the street and being more than a litlte unpleasant. After 10 the street would get clogged by trucks, double parked, to off load their wares at stores.

Even if they have a plan in or out, what if they can't follwo it and have to go into an unknown area-new gangs, toxic waste etc.
"What are you doing, go left on miller"
"I can't"
"Why?"
"There's a corp gunship with a mini-gun hosing up the intersection."
"What? Why?"
"I don't know, you go ask them."

or randome acts of violence. They're moving down the street and someone drives by screaming something "Warriors come out to Playyyy!" comes to mind. Or just a random rifle shot goes by their heads. "what the flock?" or a group is seen dancing round a fire in a 55 gal drum. Nothing else but a properly paranoid group will assume something big's going down, when it's not.

Lastly, there's 'what a coinsidence..." the same lot/wharehouse you're having your meet is where a group of mafioso/yakuza/gangers/runners are having their own ,completely seperate meet.

[Critias]

Hahahah. "Skells." I haven't heard that in forever. You're the best, 'Fox. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Siege]

And the corpses fighting back.

Don't forget to occasionly toss in bits that emphasize that the Awakened world of 2070 isn't friendly to metahumanity; even just having their escape route being closed (in a nicer portion of town) because, to paraphrase 2XS, "something had crawled out of the water, eaten a couple of cars and crawled back."

In the Barrens, have a few Shedim (perhaps occupying the bodies of their recently cacked contacts) trying to snack on them--or having the players pass by what looks like a random gang shakedown of a lost couple... only to turn out to be a pair of shedim, and the gangers are on the losing side. Feral ghouls also work, and a low force free spirit can make an interesting ganger lieutenant.

Yes.

I love that quote and I've always felt SR didn't have enough by way of "what the frag?" moments in terms of ill-defined and paranormal creepies.

But I also gotta emphasize planning. A massive firefight, while entertaining, can seriously bog down a planned adventure and take up a good portion of the evening.

Your average runner might sport more weapons and 'ware than a UCAS Ranger platoon, but snipers suck. A lot. Take a serious look at "Blackhawk Down" for an example of how little it can take to seriously FUBAR anything. A kid with an AK doesn't have to be all that accurate to seriously ruin your day and don't underestimate the ability for locals to spot strangers out of place and not sporting gang colors - or worse, the wrong gang colors.

-Siege

[fool]

one thing no one seems to have mentioned is the threats that you can't really detect or do much about. Diseases. VITAS V, FAB IV and V (make that one up yourself) The insidious part is that the PC's don't know they've been infected until some time later, and then they don't know exactly which trip into the barrens caused them to get sick. But if they put their brain power to it, they'll figure out that most of those diseases are limited to places without med care.
If you want a good random encounter generator, start with sprawl sites and modify it. Some of their encounters were fraggin hilarious, and could be a hook for it's own adventure, or a red herring on an existing one.

[Adarael]

Here's one big one it seems like people forget about...
So your runners are coming and going without a problem. Honestly, if they're in a semi-tough vehicle, that's the way it ought to be, because armored cars are supposed to protect you.

But what if they can't get out of the barrens? What if homeless or gangers see them go in and push debris and burned out car hulks in the way of their exit? What if they get mobbed not be 3d6 gangers, but by fifty, sixty desparate people who have broken pipes, boards with nails, serious infections, bad attitudes, and nothing to lose?

Make your runners burn through their ammo killing schmoes, so their fancy smartguns are just large hunks of expensive metal. Then when the guns are empty and the chips are down, the gangers - the ones not desparate enough to rush headlong at armed men - pull out their guns and come to play, and start picking the runners apart.

Even if you don't want things to get that dire, just remember - the worst part about the barrens is that the people who live there can't escape it. Give the runners a taste of that.

[kindalas]

Have a pack of street urchins attack the players armed with sticks, knives, bats and the occasional gun.

Think of it as a zergling rush but with children.

Nothing will put the fear of god into characters like being forced to gun down 20-50 near starving cannibalistic children while attempting to meet a contact.

For added effect have the various possessions of that contact spread out amongst the children.

[Siege]

Or children held under the sway of something ickier.

And combat drugs.

Hmmm...

-Siege

[Trobon]

I think the movie Black Hawk Down is a good way of looking at the barrens. The people there will probably be a little less well equipped (although this varies), but the point is the same. Even if your runners have a nice vehicle and good weapons there are a lot of desperate and sometimes angry people in the barrens and they are willing to do almost anything to get to you. Traveling through there might mean facing a rocket launcher because honestly the resources required to get a single shot rocket launcher is probably less than they're going to get salvaging the remains of a runner team. It could also mean facing swarms of people with small arms and knives or pieces of weaponry salvaged from the last runner crew to come through the barrens.

[kindalas]

Or children held under the sway of something ickier.

And combat drugs.

Hmmm...

-Siege

I think it would be freakier to find out that the children work attacking on their own.

But they could have combat drugs.

What would be really nice is if the runners had say been responsible for a nearby orphanage being shut down because of something nasty, say Ghoul ownership, and the majority of the starving children that they were shooting at were wearing the remains of the uniforms, burlap sacks, from said orphanages.

[StormWatcher]

in my games, a run into any barren is generally an all out mini adventure/run-
random encounter's sadly are a way to illustrate some of this-and they are not
always directed at them-if for instance the group contains a heroic helper of the people,
then of course it becomes their encounter as well-
playing up on filth, vermin, poverty, etc-along with showing glimpses of what could be
this or that stalking them in the shadows for whatever chrome they might have dangling
about to push paranoia is good as well.
ahhh, the random times i throw dice just to make them think it is a perception check..
well, some of those rolls are real, but you get the point.

Unless you are just trying to quickly push out a quick session and just need
to segway(spelling?)barrens should almost be remembered-
my players HATE going into Glow City, let me tell you.

[jklst14]

Thanks for everyone's input. Certainly lots of great ideas here.

[Crusher Bob]

Sigh.

Long term survival as a predator requires a conservative mindset. If you get wounded taking something/someone down then you will usually die horribly at some point down the road. This means that you want to stack the odds as much in your favour as possible. Sure you could attack that group of heavily armed guys, but what would it really get you but dead? Why not get a few mates together and take out that poor family where the parents have gotten sick, and you can do whatever you want with their children afterwards? Much safer.

People actually live and grow up in the barrens. With the levels of violence most of you are talking about (Blackhawk down all day every day) the barrens would soon only be populated by people smart enough to keep their heads down.

---------

How then to make the barrens somewhat dangerous (or, at least, unpleasant to be in) without the PCs needing to break out the crew served weapons?

1
The barrens change. Gangs rise and fall, buildings collapse, streets are cleared or blocked off, squatter camps move around. Unless the PCs are plugged into what going on then they will have real trouble finding their way around. Maybe they can hire a native guide but how do they know the guide is not leading them into an ambush? They could also go the high tech solution and use airborne drones to find their way around.

2
Blood draws in the sharks
The PCs in a tight group, armed to the teeth, and so on will not be bothered. But if they look weak or wounded, expect the predators to start moving in.

3
Larceny
While the residents of the barrens are not likely to attack the PCs and take their stuff, they are more that willing to pick their pockets, steal anything they leave behind for a few minutes (like parked cars), or just go through their pockets when they gets konked on the head.

4
News of their crimes can travel amazingly fast
If the PCs do something bad in the barrens, expect the news to get around fast. Sure the residents still might not be willing to take out those guys who killed all those orphans, but they are willing to dump pots of boiling water out the window onto them as they walk past. A gallon pot of boiling water dumped on your head from a second floor window is going to be no fun at all. Sure the PCs could return fire for that, but making too much trouble will lead to Blackhawk down, and hundreds of guys with cheap weapons will still ruin the PCs day.

5
Health and hygiene
Are the PCs up to date on their immunizations? Was anyone foolish enough to take the 'weakened immune system' flaw? Any of them allergic of something? Take a look at Skid Row staph. Sure the PCs got away from that gunfight in the barrens just fine, except now you have a horrible infection in your bones. A visit to the street doc where a PC has to get cut open and a bunch of infected bone marrow sucked out might scare them much more that a simple gunfight ever could.
Did they drink the water or buy some local food? hahahahaha use your mighty google-fu to come up with some horrible African parasite. They've got them now. Time for a graphic trip to the street doc.
Make those guys who paid for stuff like the immune system boosterware and the iron gut adept powers get their moneys worth.

6
Kids trying to provoke an incident
Sure most of the barrens adults don't want to deal with a team of heavily armed runners just minding their own business, but what about those packs of street kids who want to show how tough they are? The kinds might try stuff like shouting insults, throwing rocks, garbage, dead rats, human waste, or anything else to get a rise out of the runners. If the runners give chase, then maybe they'll just loose in kids in the warrens as the small children take shortcuts that someone full grown could never fit through. Or they could run right into an ambush. If the runners just open fire, see #4. And this way it's not horrible GM fiat they gets them killed, after all, they didn't have to gun those kids down, now did they? The face could have just turned the other cheek when globs of human waste ran in rivulets down his 5000Y high fashion armored coat...

7
Appeal to their humanity, if they have any
If the PCs look rich, expect them to be followed by beggars, prostitutes, and all manner of people trying to sell them something (and expect the pickpockets to be blending into the crowd). Depending on how comfortable your players are with such things, you can have fun describing all sorts of new lows for humanity to sink to. Mothers holding horribly sick, hurt, or deformed babies and asking for money (and quite often they inflicted the hurt or deformity on the child themselves, to boost their begging ability), child prostitutes offers services so depraved the PCs have never even heard of them before. And if the PCs do help some poor chumps out, describe how the person they just helped out is ganked for whatever they gave away a few minutes later.
Some horrible crime is happening in a alley as they walk by, are they going to do anything about it?
Some accident happens across the street, the PCs with their healing magic (or just near magic 2070 medkits) could probably fix that guys broken legs with a wave of their hands. Will they?

[Arethusa]

It is additionally worth noting that if you do stir up the hornets' nest, you may have Blackhawk Down fantasies, but air support was pretty much the reason Blackhawk Down was a rousing tale of camaraderie and survival in the face of insurmountable odds and not a tale of a bunch of guys who got boxed into a corner and killed. In many respects, extremely violent places can be manageably safe if you're well armed and know what you're doing (ie you don't attract attention, you watch eachother's backs, and you pay your way at checkpoints to keep moving quickly); they can turn lethal very quickly if you don't. Most of the danger of these places is borne by the people who have to live in them daily, however, and that's just as true of the Barrens as it is Baghdad or Woodlawn or South Central.

I pretty much agree with the rest of Crusher's points, though 4 is a bit slapstick. However, word will travel quickly, and real problems can start up (everything from cabs avoiding you to pickpockets not avoiding you to gangs organizing to bar you entry to their communities).

I think it's also worth pointing out that making the Barrens dangerous does not necessarily mean making it dangerous for the players (though it should be in some cases). There are plenty of other people in the world that it is dangerous for, and making that world living and very depressing and bleak is an important job for the GM.