Not meaning to be disrespectful, insolent (nor wanting to be suspended!), I thought we were appropriately discussing the differences and similarities of the actions of Lonestar and police forces in the Shadowrun setting with those in the real world and that pretty much is exactly the type of discussion that is permitted by the TOS rules you posted.

Could you point out what was said that is in violation of the rules of the board? Seriously, I am not trying to be obtuse here; I don't get what the issue is.

Vlad

Nice!

As a GM, I pretty much believe in letting hte players play however they want. I also believe in applying the appropriate consequences for actions. It's a tightrope, however, because, obviously, if hte players are attacking teh game in the ways you "think" they should, you are going to reward them for their behavior.

Basically, I just have to remind myself that it's all about having fun. That's why we play. If, at hte end of hte session, everyone (for the most part) had fun, then it was done right. Too often the game becomes some pissing match between the GM and hte players. That's not fun, not when the players figure outhte hard way that the GM should always be winning those matches.

That being said, if my players decide to geek the Johnson and rob a bank (which doesn't make sense since what bank has any hard cash to speak of in 2070?) then they geek the Johnson and rob the bank. They are gonna be dealing immediately with a bad rep, no jobs, probably a contract out on their head and a couple thousand in old ratty nuyen notes. Lonestar and hte Feds are both gonna be after them. I figure they want to play "Hunted Rat." *shrugs* Then, we'll play hunted rat. I can have fun with that too. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Vlad

Aside from anything else, international waters doesn't mean you're safe. International waters just mean you're fair game for any country that decides to take you out. A very reasonable way of dealing with something like that, would be for the UCAS military or Lone Star to send out some bombers to take their ship out.

As the OP I agree. I had hoped that this would be a thread to compile ideas on ways to deal with Lonestar without filling them full of lead. It's a tough thing for a lot of groups to do so I was hoping to share some of my own experiences and hear from others.

Threads like this seem to go off topic quite a bit, particularly when they are discussing things like police procedure and reactions. Might I suggest that everyone not analyze things too much. Remember these ideas are going to get pitched at tables during the middle of a session. You won't have a chance to break out the law book or phone your cop buddy. Sure the cops in SR could annihilate any runner team that went up against them. That would make for a boring game though. Even the smartest most experienced team (unless they're real CSI fans) is going to overlook something, especially when you need to factor in another 60 years of advancement in the criminology field. PC's already need to worry about Matrix trails and ritual magic in addition to everything the cops have today. If you're going to put that much effort in why not plan a real bank heist? There's more in it for you than Dorritos and Mountain Dew.

Not to call you out personally but this is what I mean.

My criteria for letting the PC's get out of trouble is this.

1) What's going to happen if it goes bad? TPK? PC death? End of the campaign? Do I want any of those? Sometimes I do. Sometimes I don't. It depends on the individual campaign.
2) Was it amusing? Not necessarily lol amusing but did I have fun running them through it?
3) Did the rest of the group enjoy it? Even if one PC (say the face) was responsible for talking their way out of the situation did everyone enjoy the interplay? Did they inject comments, advice and criticism? Were they laughing?
4) Was it creative? Did the player come up with something new (even if it was a bit off the wall) or did he just fall back on the same tired response?
5) Does it seem reasonable at first blush?

Needless to say "is it realistic" doesn't even make the list, even 'plausible' is last on the list. My reasoning behind this is that the sessions where PC's come up with crazy schemes are the sessions that people remember.

Just as an example. Probably 4 or 5 years ago my group was running through the old 2nd ed adventure about the cybereye. The name escapes me. We were at the rave thing at the mall and it just so happened that one of the PC's had a day job as a security guard at said mall. Now the logical thing to do (and the thing we probably should have done if we were being real 'pros') would have been to summon Lone Star using his authority, use them to bust up the party and use the sec guard's character as a distraction while we preformed the run.

What actually happened was the Sec Guard PC started flashing his badge and shouting "DISPERSE!" while chucking stun grenades. The rave turned into a riot as Lone Star showed up anyhow and we got into a big firefight with the cops before escaping into the barrens. We got away scott free. Why? because everyone had a blast playing the running gun battle. Everyone participated. My street sam cut a hole in the roof of the teams van and improvised a pintle mount for his LMG, the mage kicked open the back door and started chucking spells, the sec guard drove the van while leaning out the window and plugging away with his pistol while the physad with the motorcycle acted as an outrider and scout. We even had the noncombat decker leaning out the window firing a combat shotgun he didn't know how to use. It was a great time, a little goofy at points but it was still probably one of our most memorable sessions.

We still talk about that session and 'DISPERSE!' has become practically the groups battlecry when dealing with a huge mob.

In general, some RP, a decent social roll, and maybe a bribe (or something similar) goes a long way at my table. But, I guess it depends on what you get stopped for, right? Different situations, neighborhoods, and so on all require different approaches.

If you're pulled over because GridLink says you were going too fast, a decent Cha + Con roll might suffice to convince the officer that your GridLink sensor is faulty. Oh, and you were going down to the shop to have it fixed, by the way. Same for a busted taillight or headlight or cracked windshield...

If you're getting stopped because you're an ork driving a classic Saab Dynamite, then you might need to put on the super-confident act (if you're not actually legit). Wearing a Tres Chic corporate suit, stylin' shoes, and sporting a slick commlink if you're said ork, might go a long way toward convincing Joe Law that you're on the up and up.
Otherwise, Intimidate (Mental) him into think you'll have his badge.
Maybe Negotiation (Fast-Talk) him into thinking you'll give a good recommendation to his commander (good if you can drop names here).
Heck, you're rich, right? (You are driving a Dynamite.) Maybe the officer is just looking for some kind of bribe?

If you're getting stopped at a DUI checkpoint or something, the best thing you can do is play it totally straight and... don't panic! Nothing at a checkpoint says, "Please pull off to the side" like looking nervous. Well, other than being obviously intoxicated, that is.

My wife got caught speeding while she was (very visibly) pregnant. She has a way of talking her way out of traffic stops... The conversation was something like:
Officer: Do you know you what speed you were going, mama?
Wife: I'm sorry officer, I know I was probably speeding, but I'm pregnant and I really need to pee. Is there a gas station around here?
Officer: Oh, I see. There's a Speedway just up the road. We'll just call this a verbal warning? Watch your speed.
Wife: Thank you so much officer. Bye now!


Honestly, unless you're doing something really stupid, I just don't see Lone Star bothering to stop people for petty shit like speeding (except in AAA, AA, and A rated areas). If there was an APB out for a vehicle matching the description of the one you're in, well, that might cause some issues.

On the other hand... with everything going wireless by 2070, you could even have citations issued without ever stopping the car.

They have automated traffic light cameras today. If you're caught running a light, the cameras take a picture, the cops match the license plate with what's on file with the DMV, and they mail you a ticket. Pay within a certain period of time or they issue a warrant for you. The cops don't come to break down your door, but if you're stopped for something, then you can bet that life is going to get that much more complicated as you try to straighten everything out.

With GridLink, the car's registration, is associated with a SIN, which is associated with a commlink code. GridLink notes your car exceeding the legal limit three times in a ten minute period (or whatever). GridLink notifies Lone Star, which double checks the data, then issues a citation to the commlink code / SIN the car is registered to.

Yeah... And those automated systems work *SO* well...

Guy I know in Northern Ontario was ticketed in Quebec City for "Running a red light in a red Ford pick-up truck." when his license plate is registered to a blue Chevy sedan.

Oh, here's more of a kicker, he could prove he was in Ontario at the time, but, legally, you have to fight the ticket in the issuing city. Uni-lingual Anglophone fighting a ticket in Quebec City? Could have all the evidence and the best lawyer in the world, and still lose.

He paid the damn thing, and made sure the Newspapers knew about it.

Is it fun/amusing/memorable? yes/no
And that totally sounds like an awesome run. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)
That's a solid game plan if I've ever heard one. It varies from group to group but CSI:Cops-rape-you-with-jupiter-stun-baton-run is not everyones cup of tea.

Exactly!

The tech is still not terribly widespread, compared to say, cellphones. That means people don't really get how things work (like, where you have to stop, blah blah blah etc.) But, by 2070, the sort of tech used in GridLink will (or should) be well known. Lone Star knows the things are buggy, especially in the B and lower rated zones that don't see regular maintenance crews.
"What the...? Hey Joe, check this. Somebody in a Spirit is going 120kmh on West Fifth!"
"Ignore that, the West Fifth Grid has been on the fritz since last Tuesday. It showed a Segway doing 75kph yesterday morning."

*Nods* Not to mention all the Shadowrunners and Go-go-go-gangers with GridLink Overrides that'll show up as "Ghosts" or spoofed as other vehichles.

How much you want to get that Segway was a certain Mr. Johnson's Jackrabbit or Shadowrunner's Triumph Rocket-IV?

You see, what he should have done was go to the United States with a team of highly skilled and totally amoral mercenaries, break into a US military base and steal a Special Atomic Demolition Munition, and take it with him when he went to fight the ticket. If he lost then he could have left the nuclear weapon by the court house on a timer out of spite. It is what any half-decent Shadowrunner would do.

Another good solution to suck ticketing is to use false identities to register your vehicles. When you get a ticket you just change the VIN numbers, repaint it, and register it under a different identity (after maxing out your burned identity's credit cards, of course).

And actually getting away scott free was a bit of an overstatement. Everyone survived and none of us got caught but while we were laying low in the Barrens the Sec Guard got a call from one of his law enforcement contacts asking what was going on, the FBI had just raided his house. I don't remember for sure I wasn't GMing but I think he ended up loosing a primary ID, probably 5 or 6 K in gear, and had about 7000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) in assets frozen. The rest of us took the hint, scrubbed our old primary ID's and went to ground for a while. At the end of the day the Sec Guard ended up loosing about 20K worth of stuff while the rest of us were out about 8 each. The only exception was the decker who pretty much lived off the grid anyhow. None of this was above what we could afford though and within a few weeks gametime we were back up and running.