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Method
post Jun 16 2008, 11:04 PM
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BTW (and back on topic) I like the Detect [Metahuman] Spell as a diagnostic test. I would allow that for elves and dwarves for sure, particularly in later gestation and any trolls and orks that goblinize in utero.

I have always thought the astral chromosome or astral strand theory made the most sense. And if the astral component had the ability to materialize (like a spirt) during key points in embryonic development you would not need astral transcription machinery. The dual natured DNA could interact with the mundane cellular proteins.

Of coarse its wise for the writers not to endorse any one theory or explain everything. Being able to run a simple genetic screen for magical traits is verging dangerously close to the worst sci-fi idea ever created by man- midi-chlorians.
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RunnerPaul
post Jun 16 2008, 11:47 PM
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QUOTE (Method @ Jun 16 2008, 05:46 PM) *
Then I realized:

Biology = Chemistry = Physics = Math

As evidenced by this XKCD strip.
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Method
post Jun 17 2008, 12:06 AM
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Ha. Thats funny...
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Bull
post Jun 17 2008, 12:26 AM
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Just a quick reminder to everyone... Shadowrun is fiction, Magic isn't real, and Game Designers just make up whatever they think is "cool". Somehow, I suspect you're all overthinking this a little bit (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Bull
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Mordinvan
post Jun 17 2008, 12:42 AM
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QUOTE (the_dunner @ Jun 16 2008, 03:55 PM) *
Keep in mind that if it hasn't appeared in a sanctioned publication it's not true. Also keep in mind that SR books are not meant to be medical texts, so in the interests of word count and approachability, they're not written like them.

There are two divergent theories associated with the DNA structures involved in metagenetics and magigenetics.

The first theory is that there is a third strand of the DNA helix which is entirely astral. That strand is what actually dictates metatype, magical ability, et al. In the presence of an adequate mana background count, this strand can be expressed. In its absence, it cannot. This theory obviously requires the presence of additional "proteins" and nuclear structures that exist only on the astral plane.

The second theory is that there are implicit features in an organism's aura that dictate the conformation of DNA tertiary structures allowing for expression of metagenes. In the presence of an adequate mana background count, these conformations are assumed. If the resultant tertiary structure allows for the expression of a gene, then it's expressed. In the absence of both the requisite mana background count and the resultant coding gene, they are not expressed.

It's possible that both of these theories are true, just that different metagenes are expressed through the two contrasting mechanisms. In the game world, there is ample evidence to support both of these. Of the identified metagenes, some were identified by techniques associated with each of these two theories.


The first answer you gave was not one I had considered, I had always assumed the second, but this is some very informative technobabble. Hadn't really considered astral DNA or proteins. Has always assumed that the 'indistinct' shadows of the mundane world would have prevented any sort of interaction at this level of precision. But it is an intersting possibility. I have to admit, I am biased in my preference towards option two as it makes more sense to me, but hey, I'd buy both of them, once cause I can understand, and one because I can't argue against it.
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Mordinvan
post Jun 17 2008, 12:44 AM
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QUOTE (Method @ Jun 16 2008, 04:04 PM) *
BTW (and back on topic) I like the Detect [Metahuman] Spell as a diagnostic test. I would allow that for elves and dwarves for sure, particularly in later gestation and any trolls and orks that goblinize in utero.

I have always thought the astral chromosome or astral strand theory made the most sense. And if the astral component had the ability to materialize (like a spirt) during key points in embryonic development you would not need astral transcription machinery. The dual natured DNA could interact with the mundane cellular proteins.

Of coarse its wise for the writers not to endorse any one theory or explain everything. Being able to run a simple genetic screen for magical traits is verging dangerously close to the worst sci-fi idea ever created by man- midi-chlorians.


As far as tests for magical ability go, ya I can agree, but I think testing for metatypes should be possible. But saying there's a test to know who will be a mage or adept would be pretty terrible.
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RunnerPaul
post Jun 17 2008, 12:45 AM
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QUOTE (Bull @ Jun 16 2008, 07:26 PM) *
Just a quick reminder to everyone... Shadowrun is fiction, Magic isn't real, and Game Designers just make up whatever they think is "cool".
Game Designers? Just a fairy tale -- a polite fiction put out by the publishing industry because telling the public how these things really get made would make sales tank.
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Mordinvan
post Jun 17 2008, 12:45 AM
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QUOTE (Bull @ Jun 16 2008, 05:26 PM) *
Just a quick reminder to everyone... Shadowrun is fiction, Magic isn't real, and Game Designers just make up whatever they think is "cool". Somehow, I suspect you're all overthinking this a little bit (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Bull


Sorry, I just tend to like to understand stuff and have it make sense, even if it doesn't exist.
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hyzmarca
post Jun 17 2008, 01:27 AM
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QUOTE (RunnerPaul @ Jun 16 2008, 06:47 PM) *
As evidenced by this XKCD strip.


That comic strip is wrong. Psychology is substantially purer than Physics but it belongs in the field of applied BS. Freud was an extraordinarily badass asspuller but was an asspuller nonetheless.

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Method
post Jun 17 2008, 04:22 AM
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Yeah Freud was just an obsessive pervert who's idea probably would have been discarded if he hadn't lived in a the prudish climate of Victorian period. I think Carl Jung was a lot more badass.
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hyzmarca
post Jun 17 2008, 04:42 AM
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QUOTE (Method @ Jun 16 2008, 11:22 PM) *
Yeah Freud was just an obsessive pervert who's idea probably would have been discarded if he hadn't lived in a the prudish climate of Victorian period. I think Carl Jung was a lot more badass.


It is impossible to fully separate the two due to their friendship and influence on each-other, particularly Freud's influence on Jung. I'm also afraid that Freud would defeat Jung in unarmed combat should such a battle ever occur.

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FrankTrollman
post Jun 17 2008, 04:52 AM
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QUOTE (hyzmarca @ Jun 17 2008, 12:42 AM) *
It is impossible to fully separate the two due to their friendship and influence on each-other, particularly Freud's influence on Jung. I'm also afraid that Freud would defeat Jung in unarmed combat should such a battle ever occur.


Not if the fight took place between 1940 and 1961.

-Frank
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hyzmarca
post Jun 17 2008, 05:03 AM
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QUOTE (FrankTrollman @ Jun 16 2008, 11:52 PM) *
Not if the fight took place between 1940 and 1961.

-Frank


I'm assuming that Super-Powered Zombie Freud would be more than a match for Nazi Smasher Jung. No matter how much Nazi butt you kick, you just can't defeat the Undead without weapons unless you happen to be a Shaolin monk, which Jung wasn't.


I'm unsure if Detect spells would register the fetus as a separate entity from the mother. There are plenty of traditional cultures which view the fetus as a part of the woman's body until birth.
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Redjack
post Jun 18 2008, 12:48 AM
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QUOTE (Mordinvan @ Jun 16 2008, 07:45 PM) *
Sorry, I just tend to like to understand stuff and have it make sense, even if it doesn't exist.


QUOTE (the_dunner @ Jun 16 2008, 03:55 PM)
The first theory is that there is a third strand of the DNA helix which is entirely astral. That strand is what actually dictates metatype, magical ability, et al. In the presence of an adequate mana background count, this strand can be expressed. In its absence, it cannot. This theory obviously requires the presence of additional "proteins" and nuclear structures that exist only on the astral plane.
This seemed passed both those tests to me. I tend to like the fluff that takes full account of the the magical nature in the 6th world to expand our understanding of the basics of the universe.... And of course there is always the fact that each scientific 'proof' in the world is really nothing more than the current working theory that has yet to be put aside for a new, better 'proof' that better explains the universe.... until the cycle repeats itself again.
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