This may have been brought up before but it is 4 in the morning and my search-fu is numb so here goes.

With the availability of vat grown replacement parts, plus the technology of putting your “brain in a box�, how possible or canon is the reality of full clones? Does Doc Wagon now offer a “Doc Wagon Orichalcum� contract? With everything wireless, why could they NOT have a live feed of all your emotions, memories and thoughts, your very “soul� being recorded in the event of your death and then downloading all this information into one of your many “empty� clones; and presto, one second your walking toward “the light� the next your sitting up on a stainless steel table and asking “What the frag happened?�

Has anyone ever use an idea like this?

Would someone who has awakened wake up a mundane? Is magic genetic or a manifestation of something else? I can’t remember right now.

Obviously, all cyber would have to be redone, unless you had it in your contract that your clone had all the same implants you had or you could give your clone hand-me-downs. Yours.

What about someone who had the contract before becoming infected. Your clone doesn’t have the infection but you would give it the memories of the bloodlust and all the acts associated with it. Enough to drive someone insane.

This would be an easy way to deal with PC death. Just have the clone sit out a few sessions while you upload its mind and then presto, “Hey Shaddo, I thought you got geeked. Whats been up?�

I know this sounds a lot like “the Eight Day� with Arnold. (at least I think that was the movie with the clones with the dots tattooed on the inside of their eyelids.)

I’ll throw in another movie plug from “Demolition Man�, why not have different skills implanted into your clone while it is waiting its turn at life (while you’re still you). That way, if you kick the bucket, your clone would have different skills that may allow it to survive, that you didn’t.

“Why does he now know Kung Fu and I can knit?�

For the sake of argument, why not have a AAA create its own “Clone Army� they could clone a mercenary or bounty hunter and augment them all, train them in various skills and give them all matching plastic armor. Sorry, had to do a Lucas plug while I was at it.

no, cloning does not work like that in the world of shadowrun.
just like time travel and teleportation don't(yeah right)

edited for those two words

Page 52 of Augmentation, Cloning section.

Cloning does not work the way that Mr. Yeti thinks it does, yes. Cloning in Shadowrun either produces catatonic specimens that require life support to sustain them, if force-grown, or will produce a child that happens to have the same genetic makeup as the original, if slow-grown, which will not develop properly unless released into society (which will produce a different person from you). In neither case could someone use it to extend their subjective existence.

You're wrong, Heath on the other hand is right.

Although such cloning is by RAW impossible it could still be implemented in the game - there are some interesting drawbacks though.

Sure, you survived, but there are some problems.

Magic is not something that automatically is funneled into the new clone so a new body with a transferred mind might very well become mundane and that lvl 3 initiate might fel a bit cheated.

Cyberware ditto as the 1mil sammie now is a regular joe and have to start over.

Perhaps a metaquest for the mage to regain his magic with help from a 3rd party and lots of jobs and favors for the sammie.

Same goes for technomancer.

What would happen to someone who wakes up and realizes that his magic/resonance is just GONE...

Gamebreaking no, rare as a metaplot - yes.

Fun to GM....oh yea.

That rule is nothing more than a GM fiat. Yes, it is RAW but the (in game world) reality is that what Mr. Yeti describes is entirely possible. It would be much easier to connect a boxed brain to a cloned body, however I see no reason why a fresh brain couldn't be imprinted with the personality of someone else using psychotropic ICE or SIM/SIMSENSE. Rules wise (except that caveat) it is possible. It has been the basis of a few plot threads in the core rules.

If he can get his old body, he can have it all installed back and it wouldn't even count as second hand.

I would only allow such cloning on an Renraku Arcology run during the Shutdown.

Trust The Computer. The Computer is Your Friend.

Shadow-R-UNR-2 at Your service beloved computer. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/spin.gif)

Cloning is mostly used to replace bodytissue etc.

UniOmni is remarked as likely to have tried it. They are also remarked to probably have failed.

I would still argue for it being less useful than many think; you're tied to your current brain intimately. Brain death is death. I am a physicalist, though. Most people are more in line with dualists.


"In my talons, I shape clay, crafting life forms as I please. If I wish, I can smash it all."

As has been said, sounds like paranoia...

You can basically consider Shadowrun clones as brainless. They're biologically perfect, but they never mentally 'work'. The idea of keeping on a constant, broadband wireless connection to your clone to keep uploading the memories is interesting, but I suspect it wouldn't work. Ultimately, you're basically going to have to transplant the brain into the new clone. Presumably you'd need to transplant some other bits, since the clone doesn't really have an aura, and I don't think the aura is concentrated solely in the brain. How much you need to transfer has never been brought up (that I'm aware of), since hypothetically, it's almost easier to always transfer bits of the clone to you than vice versa. How much you need to transfer to bring the clone to life is up to the GM.

Because Shadowrun has never really dealt with brain transfers, I don't believe there's any rules on initiation transfers. I would tend to assume that if you're transferring from one body to a next, your essence WILL be mangled, even though the new body is a clone. Parts of your aura will be left behind, it's almost inevitable. So how much is left behind depends on how good the doctors are. I'd allow initiation to transfer over, but magic points will be lost throuh lost essence (geas allowed). However, I'd also rule that that loss is sufficient to change the character's aura, resulting in a new astral signature.

Cyberware can be brought over. Some cyberware will be cheaper than others, but all deltaware can be transferred over with only the costs necessary for installation (I'd probably let a betaware clinic install deltaware, and an alphaware clinic install betaware, but no lower).

No skills can be taught to the clone, since it's effectively brainless. HOWEVER, cyberware can be mostly installed, and probably cheaper, so you could upgrade all your gear easier. Don't know what I'd rule re: genetech, however.

Nezumi,
You could always use variants of the cyborg rules, since no amount of wiring up neurons properly is going to be as perfect as your original body. Some components shared with a CCU would probably get installed to keep the brain alive through the procedures necessary and to maintain the brain inside a body that hasn't weathered the same stresses as the original (with the corresponding effects on the brain development). It would probably also monitor the brain-nerve connections for diagnostic purposes.

It also has the advantages of making whole-body replacement survivors rather unstable.

Where are cyborg rules? Or do you mean cybermancy?

Aug/Arsenal Full-Body Replacement Cyborks . . jar-brains

Aye. Right after the Cybermancy section in Aug, page 148.

I apologise if I am suggesting rules from different versions of the game; I've only ever played SR4.

Just make sure you don't get Jar-Brains and Jarheads mixed up. Otherwise you'll have some pissed off UCAS Marine Corp members!

i may have had those mixed up . . tell me the difference please? ^^#

A jarhead and a jar-brain stand outside a CIA agent's office. The CIA agent looks at each of them in turn and says, "For a mission of this importance, you'll both have to prove your loyalty. Your wives are in my office, bound, gagged, and tied to chairs. I will give you each a gun, you will go into that office, one at a time, and kill your wife. If you fail to comply you will be dismissed from this top secret elite unit."

The Jar-brain takes the pistol first and walks into the room. Minutes pass, and no sound is heard, then the anthropomorphic robot walks out with a sobbing woman, throwing the pistol at the CIA agent in disgust. "You're a sick motherfragger. I may not have a human body anymore but that doesn't make me a monster."

The CIA agent says nothing as the jar-brain leaves with his uninjured but traumatized wife and hands the pistol to the jearhead. The jarhead halks into the office, closes the door, and two clicks are immediately heard. There is the sound of a slide being operated, two more clicks, and then nothing for several minutes followed by a thump.

The marine exits the office apologized to the agent "Sorry it took so long, but you forgot to load your gun. I had to take her out with a blood choke."

Jar-Brain is a Brain in a Jar. Put it in a Robot body and let it go.

Jarhead is a Marine Corp Soldier. Give him/her a Rifle and watch the bodies fall.

A clone army could be possible, though extremely expensive (besides the corps have already been through the whole "Huge open warfare" thing and have decided that it's bad for business). As for the other thing about coming back to life, for one thing that would be really annoying, to me at least as a GM. Death is really the only major penalty that 'runners have to fear on a daily basis. I mean yeah, there's a few other things, but basically, if you're not afraid that you might die, the whole stealthy/shadowy/paranoid aspect is very much lessened, if not gone entirely. If that sort of thing was common enough that the average (or even above-average) runner could afford it, I think the SR world would be a hugely different place.

I know, not terribly logical, but sometimes you gotta go with what works best for a game, rather than what's most realistic.

You know what would rock?

A Clone Army fighting a Drone Army!

...

Nah, it's been done. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

ok, i did not know the name jarhead for marines

Yeah, don't ask me where it comes from.

But I bet you can blame the Squidies. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

And, as I'm a civilian (And a Canadian one at that!), I better stop with the slang term for military groups before I offend people.

It does expand the "Corp saves your life, for a price" routine (which is basically a post-humous deal with the devil in many ways). It allows you to tack on the end "But you'll never be the same again now that they cloned you up a new body and implanted half a CCU into your brain, all of which has given you quite a few mental problems and burnt you out. Take some attribute modifiers for the lesser development your new body has seen and the 'brain pan' they stored you in whilst your body was being cloned up."

Life-saving full-body transplants are only available for those with money, just like all the other cool stuff. Shadowrunners tend not to have that much money, corps might like Shadowrunners they have control over. Hell, it could even be a "perk" of signing on as a permanent fixture in a corp disposable assets lineup.

ARG! My Telomeres!