I was just wondering if anyone knew what happened to the Kingdom of Hawai'i in SR4 setting. A nice vibrant community in earlier versions, with its own magic shamanistic traditions and such.

Fast forward to SR4. A good chunk of California falls into the ocean. I think the general 'real life' belief is that if something like that ever happened, Hawaii just sorta...well..dies. A tsunami generated from that magnitude of change would pretty much scrape the landscape off the islands.

Now I suppose in SR4, you could say that via magic, somehow Hawaii managed to avoid getting erased from the planet. But is there any info one way or the other on what happens to Hawaii? Or did the devs kill us? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

No, California did not fall into the ocean. Yes, Hawai'i is still there, a reference to it was was in Corporate Enclaves.

Obviously Ancient is the go-to person here.

As I recall, the earthquake has some pretty weird stuff going with it, which reduced the overall effect of the quake (like the buildings still standing in water). Hawaii would not have todisappear when the other half of LA still exists.

I also liked the old version of Hawaii, and was reading up on the old adventure set there after someone asked for a translation of some slang from the module. I reckon it's one worth dusting off when the runners are fairly competent (they go there without any of their contacts or equipment and get very little from their contact there).

What about Guam? Can we just say it's a giant Bug Nest? Please?

From what I recall the local Admiral and troops decided not to go back when the UCAS sent out the recall notice to their troops all over the world and turned the place into a massice free port that anyone can use. Although I think it also said something about there being some sort of connection with the CAS and their being a bit anti-Aztlan/Aztechnology, but I can't be a hundred percent sure about that.

I seem to recall reading somewhere that Guam is now a glorified Free City, run by the renegade UCAS garrison commander who refused to abandon the island when he and his command were recalled to the mainland.

In Paradise Lost Nigel Findely wrote a nice development of Hawaii, it was 3rd ed but since it's back ground no reason to think it can't keep the details.

The Kingdom of Hawaai broke away, with corporate help, from the USA and after a burst of Thorbolts and a massive mana activity "something fragging huge surtfaced near the Arizona" The USA had more important things to do. Hawaai exists happily with corporate activity well balance, no one trusts anyone else enough to let them get a big hold.

Surprisingly Hawaii was not gobbled up by Japanese expansion-the RL jump by the US in the 19th Century was to prevent it falling to the Japanese expansion before WW1. I know it's popular to say it was White agression but truth be told if the US hadn't done it, the Japanese would have.

So you have a lovely, tropical setting wit lots of corp intrigue. The other outstanding element was that population wise Hawaii had a particulaly large level of goblinization. I think something like 30% of the population are orks. This creates a very accepting environment.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif) Spoken like a Non Native(derogatory word), ranks right up there with:
If we had not bought the Slaves from Africa someone else would have.
We are civilizing these Native Americans by taking their land and moving them to the least desirable land, taking away their language, culture, and beliefs.

On your statement I disagree strongly with.

WMS

It was a bug nest when I lived there. Until I read otherwise it still is (IMG:style_emoticons/default/spin.gif)

Well yes, a bug nest..just not the type that come from anotehr meta plain, though some of the bugs there might put up a damn good fight if the bigger ones ever showed up, for the other two in the posting above flat here I shall now produce my Worlds smallest violin, I do take requests though since I work in the service ind. Cry me a river is something of a talent of mine, (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)




Long live the republic. <more evil laughing> <becouse I like it,> < oh and lolcats are eating your pizza,>

P.S. Ok now you may return to sniping I've inject your silly for the day into this thread.

So pretty much nothing's changed. Gotcha.
(was stationed there for 2 and a half years)

I'm not saying the attempted obliteration of native culture was correct. I agree the destruction of culture and language was wrong, and that is stating it mildly.

What I am saying is that Hawaii's days as an independant nation were limited and it wouldhave been gobbled up by Japan if not the US. If you look at what they did to Korea, the Japanese were just as brutal in destroying indegiouns culture 'for the greater good."

Check your history books. The US forced open the doors to a exceedingly isolationist Japan. Ie Commodore in July 8, 1853. So if the US had not forced the Isolationist Japan, would Japan been a threat to the Hawaiian Islands.?

Also it was the British that more than likely would have been the threat to the Hawaiian Islands, since the British had already overthrown the government in February 10, 1843.

In January 16, 1893, is when the US overthrew the government to "Protect American Lives". The major purpose of said overthrow was to allow American Business interests free reign to do what they willed. Sugar being one of the larger ones.

So to say later that such actions protected them from being taken over by the Japanese, is to say the least very ludicrous.

And to think that the US was a kinder gentler Cultural Rapist than Japan was...... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif) The end result is the same no matter who does the Cultural Raping.

WMS

it wasn't to protect the Hawaians from Japanese expansion, it was to protect american interests in the islands from Japanese expansion.

Yes the US forced Japan to open to the west but having done so, they more than made up for lost centuries in modernizing. Having a mind set better than the chinese, once defeated by the 'barbarians' the Japanese thought 'we can learn from them" and did.

If you are gonig to be insulting enough to say check the history books, I'd recommnend you do likewise but look at Japanese expansion in the late 19th early 20th century. The way in which the US forced the civilian government to Hawaii to surrender is an almost text book example of white imperialism towards a non-industrialized power, but Japan's growing power and influence in the region and her plans were similarly 'white.'

The US was pumping up the Russians in the area to blanace the growing Japanese power. Japan's anilation of the Russian navy in the 1905 war-later than this period I know-was a disaster for American forigen policy since it left Japan with no balancing power in the region, that was why Roosevelt so carefully worked on a peace treaty. Trying to salvage something of russia's power.

Just look at the large Japanese population in the islands predating the mid-20th century. it was a place many Japanese went for cheap land to try and build up capital to bring home. The United States may have had the upper class, but Japan had a growing 'colony' for lack of a better term there and it would have been right in line with the policies of industrial powers to fabricate some incident with indigenous population and send in armed troops to 'protect japanese interests' and then forget to go home.

Again which nation set of the trigger point which led up to all of this history.....The US did.

Since you are stating basically a What IF situation ie if we did not the Japanese would have,,,,Again what if the US had not opened up Japan.

Also you have not yet seen me be insulting. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) This is The DumpShock Forums that speaks for itself. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

WMS

well despite the disputes over RL history getting on the rock seems like it'd be a monetarily wise decision for a shadowrunner. I'd imagine the islands would be great grounds for smuggling runs seeing as it would serve as a perfect refueling and dumping ground. it's a shame Hawaii wasn't included in smuggler's havens. between the corporate presence and it's vital military/shipping location it seems like there should be a little more sexy given to that great vacation spot cannon-wise.

Haoles don't surf, chummer.

In the SR4 world and its technologies Hawaii should be a center for Aqua farming and Aqua mining.

As for heavy manufacturing and industry unless the Aqua mining is very successful, I do not see much being there.

But it is a novel position for shipments crossing the Pacific.

So Runners would be able to locate various types of work there.

WMS

Maybe you should try reading things
1) Japanese history and see how much love there is the Koreans have for the japanese after what the Japanese did to them
2) If you are going to start playing games going further bacvk in time, like 'it's the US's fault because they opened up modern Japan, then just go back half a century further- blame FRANCE- Napoleon sold the Louisiana purchase to the US. if he hadn't done that, the US would never have had an interest in the western ocean to open up Japan,. so using your pathetic logic to shuffle back in time to reach a convenient point , then blame France or Blame Britain for settling north america and laying the gorund work for what would become the unbited States.

just because the US opened up Japan does not follow that the US gets the blame for the expansionist policies of Japan.

lastly, and most importantly

3) try reading the cannonical material on Hawaii before suggesting what might happen when it is documented what does happen.

Recycle arguements/discussions 1, 3, and 6. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

WMS

There were other nations interested in opening Japan, like Russia for example. Also, Japan was not as isolated as people believe.

And blame Spain for the European discovery of the New World.

And France for settling Canada.

And blame Canada because they're just too damn polite! They're obviously up to something! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) No blame the Vikings and Chinese they were here before the Spanish.

WMS

True 'nuff. But the First Nations People were able to scare off the Vikings.

The natives of Newfoundland (and possibly New England) did push back the first viking attempts to settle Vinland, but one should not discount the little ice age for keeping them away.