only because even if you were a STR/Bod1 elf but hat 8 dice in unarmed combat you could turn tables on the STR/Bod16 troll if he only had 4 dice in unarmed combat.
if the troll had enough dice in unarmed AND a good combat pool? yeah, even me as a troll-player found that to be somewhat broken from time to time . . got worse once you started silly stuff like troll adepts . . 10D damage against impact armor? even other trolls had a hard time resisting that one

But in a game of tactical ranged combat, how much use does the unarmed specialist see?

In our current game, we have two unarmed specialist adepts. They have enough gun skill to make it work, but when we get into combat, the heavy hitters (and they both hit for quite a bit) have a heck of a time closing the distance before the mage and the two sams demolition the opposition with ranged attacks. If we manage to get the drop on someone or we end up in a situation where we are unable to be armed, then yeah, they are at a great advantage over most of the oposition, but isn't that the point?

Shadowrun is all about a cohesive team where sometimes the spotlight shifts to the hyper specialized. For alot of your one hit killing strikes the character has used up all his available advantages, sunk points into a skill that is only useful in specific combat situations that happen to be in the minority and handicapped (to some extent at least) a defining stat in order to bump up their one trick. So horray for you, guy who hits like a ton of bricks. You sunk a good portion of a limited resource into achieving your shtick. Not necessarily a bad thing, heck every character maximizes their strengths while trying to prop up their weaknesses. However, they decided that if they get into melee combat (not necessarily the easiest thing to do), they want to dominate. They are likely going to be pretty weak on the IPs compared to the shooters, they are going to be at a disadvantage against other ranged attackers and groups, and they use a complex action to complete their shtick. They are like close range mages without counterspelling or spirits. Of course, it's your game, play what you like, but further hampering the melee character in a world dominated by firearms only makes it less and less attractive a path.

Actually, once you got bone upgrades, you always cause Physical Damage - except when using the Sweep Manuver.

My math was flawed earlier... It comes to +14 DV for unarmed attacks.

But that aside, it shouldn't be that hard to close for combat. I made a 400 BP adept that was unarmed spec'd and Gymnastics Dodge spec'd. The entire concept was a le parkour vigilante, and as it turned out he had about roughly 9 dicepool (before full dodging) against ranged attacks. If you really want to try, you can close combat for melee pretty easy. Don't forget to use cover too (no real help in hallways though).

With things like elevation, fire and displace and other standard tactics that trained ranged attackers should use, it can be nearly impossible for the close combat specialist to close. Every round spent full dodging is a round not spent moving toward your target. There are already more obstacles for the CC specialist, why hamper them more. And how much does the guy pay for +14 DV? What does he go without for those same BPs/Karma? I mean yeah, he kills people with one hit, just like the Troll Bowman, the Combat Mage and the Full Auto Sam.

Uh, you can move AND dodge at the same time. Most especially if you're full gymnastics dodging.

Well, I'm an idiot (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Still, you can't full out run and dodge (iirc). So you're stuck with base move, which they can do as well while shooting. So yeah...

I forgot to mention that my guy has walk/run of 20/50. So yeah, he'll catch up. Think Matrix shtuff.

Can I ask what else he does? Maybe just a post of the character in it's entirety. Again, I'm not seeing the concept any more damaging than a 2 short burst SMG to the face from the shooter Sam. You hit people like whoa!! You get to kill/incapacitate one person per IP that you have managed to close on. I mean, it's cool and you have one heck of a shtick, but how exactly is it different from the otehr guy doing the same thing with his Mojo or the one using bullets to do it?

Well, you can split melee attacks at multiple people in range with a complex action. And with distance strike, you can have a lot of people in range.

if it's worth it, with the few dice left O.o

Movement doens't have a melee combat penalty, and charging has a bonus. With martial arts qualities and being an adept, its pretty easy to have a lot of unarmed combat pool. Especially that when you use distance attack, they don't get to use their melee skill to parry it.

It's a real shame that you can't use Elemental Strike with Distance Strike - not that the former is actually that useful, but the special effects alone...

I don't get why you can't. It would have filled a niche for the classic Kung Fu Mystic image that is the adept perfectly, it's not anymore unbalanced than either power alone, and is nothing that can't be done better through other means (be it spell or gear like a flamethrower or taser).

BURN KNUCKLE!!

Unfortunately, the adept in question really only has dodge, unarmed, like 1 pnt in pistols, a handfull of athletics skills, and gymnastics. He wasn't build to wow, but built for concept. An exercize, really.

That's kind of my point, you can hyperspecialize and completely own combat a number of ways, but you can't do much else. Therefore, you are combat, but your team gets to carry you through everything else. I see no problem with it, but I'd advise any of my players against it because it just leads to them being in non combat situations with NOTHING to do, but pick fights which is just a big PITA.

Super melee adepts double real well at B&E, well, at the breaking in part of it anyway.

Yeah, I've played plenty of melee types, and you can still make them good at other things. They can have ranged backup effectively(for example, a mundane cyber fellow with 7 Agility and Automatics(SMGs) 2(+2) gets 11 dice(13 with smartlink), and 7 agility isn't even that twinky. A natural 5 agility still rolls 11 dice with the gun. You could have archery or thrown weapons, as well.

For those who want a more pure melee build, well, there are still plenty of other skills you can get(infiltration for not being seen/surprises), good Athletics dodge(if cybered, a synthacardium adds to this), and really, the sky is the limit with the points; you could be a combo face, tech, or whatever you want.

Hell, once of my more effective melee characters was an elf face/martial artist. Great social skills to deceive the enemy into closing in(who thinks the pretty-elf face guy can hurt them? Then again, in SR, I hope people aren't *that* gullible all the time), good ware to help both his physical side and his face-side(Agility and Strength modified 7's, ceramic bone lacing, Body of modified 5-with additional bone lacing damage bonus as well, Charisma 6 with some pheremones).

He was awesome, certainly not a one-trick pony, and the original one was even made under the 400 BP system(I admit, the 750 version got even more awesome. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) The addition of a bit of stealth and the like. ) Oh yeah, as for pain factor, he hit for 9P damage after all was said and done(4 base +2 Martial Arts, +2 Bone Lacing, +1 Hardliners), rolled 14 dice(15 with Kick Attack) and had six maneuvers. He DID have a 2(+2) Pistols(Semi-Automatics) skill for backup as well, given his role sometimes as a bodyguard. But he rarely uses the gun unless it's really, really needed.

Point is, since melee isn't terribly skill intensive-get the melee skill of choice and some martial arts to go with it, good Dodge or Gymnastics dodge, and if cyber, appropriate ware-if adept, appropriate powers, and you can give them about any secondary stuff and make them highly effective.

No one combat build is ''perfect.'' Even Mr. Super Automatics has some of his own drawbacks. Melee can have it a bit tough sometimes but it's far from useless; you just need to make sure you have a few tricks up your sleeve.

Ask the devs - they ruled it out in Street Magic.

You can't, because they didn't want hadoukens in their game.

Fighter-doken>hadouken anyway ^^
Cue Master Blaster or Colossus and Wolverine Character Concept with the Troll being a throwing Adept and the Dwarf being all close-combat . .