No security around connection to the network at all? No guards that patrol? They didn't notice the guy over in the corner slumped in full VR for a few hours?

Tell me where in the mission it says this thing is not on the matrix?

I think they though that the firewall 10 would be a deterrent... it wasn't.

The personnel files of ares, just chilling live connected to the matrix, directly?

No. They don't specify anything other than "the personnel files of Ares". To me, you'd have to actually get into an areas building to gain access to the link with that data.

By the same token, tell me where it says that it is on the matrix.

Simple...

it's Shadowrun Missions.

If you're supposed to actually raid Ares HQ, then information on raiding the Ares HQ would be in the mission.

It's not. Just the info on the node, ergo you have to hit it from the Matrix.

Also note that Ares will run a trace and dispatch Knight Errant.

If I were Ares and somebody had broken into my facility to hack my computer. Running a trace and then dispatching Knight Errant? On campus security should handle it. And if they're incommunicado, you send the HTR teams, not Knight Errant cops.


Also, there is no info on the node being in a room with RF inhibiting paint, and it has a signal of 6 so it's accessible from as far away as 10 KM.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotate.gif) My bad. And since they don't list clothing in the items the contacts have, they must run around naked too! How do they launch a trace? They don't have any IC or Deckers statted either! Oh, and it doesn't say you have to find the node either, so you just logon to your matrix, and just pull up the equivilent of "www.areshrdept.com" and get to work! In fact, it doesn't even mention any IC, so even if you did get caught, they can't start a trace because they have no one to start it with, and, even so, they don't even kick you out, and let you keep rummaging around in thei files until KE is able to get to where you're at. Of course, once you've spend a virtual eternity in their system (1-2 minutes in hot VR), you can just log out, spoof your comm id, and get some coffee down the street.


In fact, you could do this with a rating 1/1/1/1 commlink with an exploit program of 1, and browse 1. Why? Because they don't even kick you out when you're detected. And have absolutely no IC to speak of. Hell, with that kind of security, you could just edit yourself into their HR files, and start getting a paycheck.

I'm to lazy to reread all the post for a check but, did anyone point the Ottimization option (Unwired p.115) allowes to run up to rating 12 on a response 6 comlink?

Running a penetration of an Ares facility would not fit within the 4 hour targeted time limit of Shadow Run Missions. Are you familiar with them at all?

http://www.shadowrun4.com/missions/downloads/

There are entire sections about things to assume that NPCs have and things they don't have. For instance, all the ratings of an unstatted commlink are (Tablerating/2)+1. If they thought that the PCs would have to run a penetration of the Ares facility to hack the node that they spent half of one paragraph summarizing, then they'd have given more details. They didn't.

And if they had, they'd have blown the allotted convention time slot limit of 4 hours. Yet this node is apparently important enough to put it into a module, give it a firewall of 10 and let the hackers at it. They even put 10 points of paydata in the thing and gave it a cash value for after the mission sales.

The module itself takes place over about 16 hours of game time. If the players had planned a physical penetration of an Ares facility and done it, in a home game, I'd have given them bonus karma. The maximum karmic reward for this particular mission was 7 with great roleplaying.

I brought up the rating 10 firewall because this was about exceeding rating 6 on anything program wise. Since they did it in the missions games, which should be vetted by the same people who make the RPG, its quite possible that the ratings of programs may exceed 6. Because they also handwave hardware storage, bandwidth, etc for 4th edition, everybody carries a super-computer in their pocket that they paid no more than about ¥20,000 for.

When I read this in the core book:

I see little problem in having it exist, and no problem adding some house rules adding requirements for it's development or aquisition.

Looking through Unwired, the only two places I remember having hardware higher than 6 were an Azzie facility and a Zurich Orbital ground station, both of which is going to have multi-million, if not billion nuyen, IT and development budgets.

A fully decked out commlink at 6, before programs, costs a little under 17000, with all rating 6 programs (not counting the new ones in Unwired) it jumps to just under 100k (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) . That's at mass market pricing (or as close to mass market as high end and hacking software gets), taking full production runs for hardware, volume sales, etc. for reducing the end user cost. That isn't going to happen when it's prototypes or custom-built hardware.
I see it something like this, a console game these days can run more than 2 million dollars to make, so at $60, even if it was pure profit, would need to sell over 30,000 units to gross 2 million, and the game probably wouldn't be considered a rating 7+ program. If a hacker has a million nuyen to burn, I could see a possibility of being able to buy rating 7 hardware and some programs to make full use of it.

Since 1-6 covers what is fairly available on the market (legit or pirated) for hardware and software, I'd say if you want something at 7+, I see 3 straightforward ways you could go about getting it: (to reduce the size of the post I'm putting my thoughts on each in spoiler tags)

1. Raid on a Corp development/research lab.

2. Have a high rated contact in the right corp/shadow group (at least 5 connection rating) and you pay black market prices for it (the guy's most likely risking his life to get it to you).

3. Find a way to write it yourself.

Lastly, don't forget that new items/programs are always being developed, so that SOTA response chip you put in today could be the norm 6 months later. I'd degrade the rating on Response by 1 every 6 or 12 months of gametime until it's at 6 to reflect new hardware released.

On a slightly related note, as a house rule, I would apply a rating to Lifestyles (1 for Street, 6 for Luxury), average (rounding to nearest) which ones you were at after a year in game, and if you have any legal programs or commlink ratings above the average, you have to pay to keep them there.

Using something like this would give you a way to calculate the cost for keeping a rating 7 system and programs at 7, once you developed a cost structure.

As a quick touch on the Missions discussion, to probe the node you make a Exploit+Hacking(16, 1 hour) extended test (assuming your in VR) just to get basic access (the threshold is 22 if you want admin rights). If you average 4 hits, that's 4-7 hours to break into the node, as apposed to on the fly at (10, 1 IP) or (16, 1 IP) for admin (about 2 combat turns). Depending on how much time the rest of the mission has already taken, you may not have time to probe the target, so you risk the system's Analyze+Firewall (Stealth, 1 IP) test to detect your hack (which would likely start a trace if you triggered an alert). Given the nature of the module, limited play time, and with the given information, I don't see why this wouldn't be a matrix accessible node for the Denver Ares corp office (I think that's were that mission takes place). Heck, given the description given in previous posts, I wouldn't even have IC or spiders reveal themselves until a trace was completed, if then; just backhack the commlink to provide a location and guide KE in for the capture.

Yes, I know what they are.


Does it say to assume they are clothed? If not, do you assume they aren't?


My point, is such that because it is a missions game, they have chosen to have it on the matrix. I think, from a game standpoint, especially with how they'd handle it (trace and send KE) that its utter bullshit. As I said, a solid rating 1 commlink could be used to probe and hack the node, and get the information out, as well as hack around and edit pretty much whatever you wanted. With a rating 1 commlink. Due to area, a AAA megacorp, being too stupid to apparently employ security deckers or IC in their HR node.


So, what do you do if they ask whats next to the building not described? Go, "Uhh, well... uhhh.... its in the city... so... theres part of the city next to it." What if they want to meet at a coffee shop to plan things out? "It doesn't say there are coffee shops so you can't do that."
Sounds to me like you let yourself get boxed in by what the missions game explicitly states exists, and put on blinders to anything else that could possibly be. It doesn't say if the node is on or off line. Thats your call to make.

Looking at the adventure... 1800 is when they meet. They have until 900 the next day, to get it done. Thats 15 hours. Assuming it takes about an hour for the meet, and then another hour before they even hear about the ID, they have 13 or so left. Its a threshold 16 test to get into the ares node. Up to 22 if they want admin access. (It also doesn't specify what kind of access they need to the node to get the info). Depending on what their hacking pool looks like, they might not be able to even get in in the time constraints. I realize you don't like that a rating 10 firewall is so easy to break into, but when the designers of the mission are so horrible as to say "well, its just sitting online for you to probe" basically is saying "I want you to hack this and theres no real consequences to doing so.


Firewalls are not programs. They are a software attribute of a node. Your example fails for even your stated purpose.

Also, how does handwaving storage and bandwidth equate to computers can run programs of huge complexity? Oh, look, we made good hard drives and networking protocols, so obviously that makes computers run programs better. Sorry, I don't buy it. Especially since the basic 1-6 programs you run, tax your system and can cause penalties if you run too many of them.

On the sescond part, note the optimization and ergonomics options which mean that you can run up to systems * 2 programs of system * 2 rating.

On the first point, it seems pretty odd to say that Firewalls are not programs. You write them with the software skill. It is a somewhat odd programs as it does not use program options (it is always running and does not count against limits, nor is it limitted) but it is software independent of a node. I can see maybe saying it is not a "program" the way the rules use the term. But it is not an "attribute of a node." It is a separate piece of software.

Joel

Actually, it is an Attribute of a Node. Node Attributes include Signal, System, Response and Firewall.

Tarantua, stop being deliberately antagonistic.