There is one major flaw in your argument Karaden.. Social circles, If you hang around a mechanic shop you are more likely to encounter skilled mechanics and people with a interest in vehicles. while the same hold true if you visit a heavy metal bar, you are far more likely to encounter people with an interest for heavy metal and possibly skilled musicians than say.. if you went to the local golf course. Highly skilled people is not scattered around randomly like the throw of a die (however many roleplayers I know would argue that the throw of a die is by no means random.. die superstition ^^) but are rather attracted to different social circles, from my personal experience you are more likely to find the Average Joe engaged in sports rather than playing roleplaying games.. but yet again, that's my personal experience

I'd agree on the likelihood of all your family having rating 6 connections. I'd be more then willing to believe a high loyalty rating, but I don't think every member of your family has easy access to black market goods (Or something equivalent in a more legal realm)

My fiance and my accountant sister are pretty innocent and squeaky clean, but my folks know a LOT of shady people from way back and my artist sister associates with a lot of shady people in her business (we live in a pretty much gang/drug run town so you can throw a stone and find crime/illegal stuff), plus my uncle is loaded so there's not much out of his reach if he really sets his mind to getting it.

What Karaden said. While I can perfectly accept that your fiancee is at a 6 loyalty, I'm having trouble imagining a massage therapist as having international influence.

He's not talking about their Loyalty, but their Connection rating. At 6, they would have world-wide connections, like a political leader or corp magnate.

Peter

[EDIT] Wow, did a lot of people jump on this in the few minutes I went to the bathroom! Moral: don't leave your computer in the middle of a reply.

I agree, which is why I'll readily believe that dumpshock has a higher concentration of people that have some high level skills. However, I'd imagine that these will be more likely to be knowledge skills then athletic ones. I mean lets face it, a good portion of roleplayers tend to be less then in great physical shape (I myself being among them). But take your mechanic shop example. Even those everyone that hangs out there is going to have some points in mechanic, it still isn't very likely that any of them actually have managed a rating of 6 in the mechanic skill.

The problem is your talking about the likelihood of running into someone with a particular skill that is high. I on the other hand am talking about the likelihood of any skill being high. I don't think a roleplayer is inately any more likely to have a skill at 6 then someone who plays alot of sports. Well, maybe slightly, but the one playing sports is more likely to have high skills in athletics, interest: football, and such, while roleplayers are generally more likely to have a high skill in computer use or interest: RPGs. Roleplayer is also more likely to have a high stat in something like logic, which would make skills like computer use seem higher then they really are. For example, I'm a good programmer, but that is because I'm fairly smart and happen to think in the way a programmer needs to, but I have little actual training/practice. So I am good at programing by virtue of a low skill and high logic.

Similarly I have lots of training in Martial arts, yet I precieve myself as having a low skill. This could very well be because I have a low agility (It comes and goes) and other factors like combat paralysis. A person with natural talent is very different in the skills department then someone who had to learn alot. So yeah, determining skill can be difficult because there is more then just the skill at work when your attempting to do something.


Oh, and that brings up a thought. As for the convincing police to leave you alone, maybe you have a low skill and high charisma (If debate and convincing people of stuff isn't something you don't on a regular basis)?

Wow! Let's get out the "sweeping generalization" gun because here they come fast and furious! Gamers are mostly overweight people with little physical skills or talents. We have lots of knowledge skills though, because boy are we nerdy! And women are generally weaklings who are bad at math! And Asian have high SAT scores!

It doesn't matter what numbers you can stuff behind those comments, the concerned groups are going to still call you a huge asshole because... you're being a huge asshole. So drop it sokay? Maybe we can get more than one person to post their "stats" as a result.

But let me reiterate my keypoint:
Who cares if people misrepresent themselves on the Dumpshock Forums?
Are we suddenly striving for absolute truth in all our posts? Are you going to drive up to cow tit nowhere and verify their claims that they can bench press a furious Irishman while pleasuring members of all genders with the power of their massive and pulsating intellect?

No goddamnit we're not! This could have been thread we had fun with but it's quickly resolving into some sort of mutant hybrid between a RAW rules debate and round about personal attacks.

While I wouldn't say everyone in all of our families have high connection ratings, it wouldn't be unheard of for us to have a few high connection ratings scattered throughout. For instance my step-dad is the VP of Technology Development for a major electronics company. I think it'd be more than fair to rate him as a connection six as he has high level corporate contacts throughout the world and access to gear that won't hit the market for several months to years. I've got a couple of rich uncles, though their ratings for loyalty and connection vary greatly between the two.

You just don't know us well enough to make catch all statements like everyone in our family can't have high rating connections. Everything we put down could in fact be quite legit.

That depends on her customers, don't you think? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I dunno, do they have her on retainer to fly internationally at the drop of the hat? I'd say that might qualify as a rating six connection for a massage therapist.

Shit my bad, I got major wires crossed and went with Skill Ratings instead of connection ratings. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sleepy.gif)

Anyway, it'd actually look more like this for connection ratings:

Massage Therapist (My fiance) 1 (Extra's in big-time movies are her most famous friends)
Mechanic (My Dad) 4 (Lots of friends from way back, rich both legally and non)
Electrician (My Mom) 3 (Same as dad only less)
Aeronautic Engineer (My Uncle) 5 (He's rich and powerful, those people congregate)
Accountant (My sister) 3 (She's an exec at an airplane company now, but she started as an accountant)
Artist (Other sister) 2 (She's in with the whole industrial raver crowd despite being clean herself)

EDIT: The fiance works in a physiotherapy clinic, making 85 bucks an hour. She always gets mad when I make jokes about her being a "masseuse".

Ah well that makes sense (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I think her connection might rate at least a 2, she could probably ask around and get you into a movie or two couldn't she? That's better than "Jim the Convience Store Clerk" connection rating.


@Everyone Else: I don't have my books on me, does RC have rules for Social Circles? Buying a group as a contact instead of an individual? I seem to remember hearing about that but it can't recall if it was homebrew or not.

I find it interesting that you feel the need to get personal.

Also note, as I said earlier, that your assumptions were not just limited to 'rank 6' (the best of the rest ... not even the best of the best!), but you also included ranks 5 and 4 in your statement.

Yes, I am generalizing. I said that on average a gamer tends to be more intellectual and less physical. I really don't care about being politically correct. I never said gamers can't be physically fit or that non gamers are stupid. Yes, the average woman is in general weaker then the average man. There are plenty of exceptions, but if you say 'who would win in an arm wrestling contest, a guy or a girl' and you gave me no other information, I'd guess the guy because of averages. And actually, if you asked who would be better in a math contest, guy or girl. Well it'd be a hard choice, but I'd likely go for the girl. More of them are good at it then alot of people think, and guys don't tend to be particularly exceptional at it that I've seen.

As for Asians having high SATs? I don't know enough to say. Notice how I'm basing a guess on past knowledge. Also notice that I'm saying Joe Average Statistic, I'm not saying anything about individual person. When all I have is nothing, how exactly do you expect me to say anything about individual person? Instead I have to make a guess based on past knowledge. People tend to think high skills are common thanks to all SR characters having high skills, so I put out the reminder that they are in fact rare. I said it is unlikely that a person from a small section of the population is likely to have a 6 in any skill. It is a statement of fact, not some sort of attempted shot at anyone's abilities.

If you really think you have a skill of 6, go ahead and give it to yourself, you know you alot better then I do. I'd likely ask why, but that is curiosity, wanting to learn more about people (Yes, I made a general statement about people in order that I could learn more about the individual), I'd also be curious as to if your thinking of what a rating 6 skill is is the same as what I think a rating 6 skill. I just wanted to speak my peace about the rarity of the skill before it is posted, as people might underestimate what a skill of 6 represents, or perhaps I overestimate it and now others know that.

Honestly I'm tired of arguing about this. If you don't like me because I said that a population of this size is unlikely to have people of world class skill, don't post. But please stop arguing with me about every little word I say, I'm done responding about it.

That certainly seems both reasonable and prudent.

I just want to know what skill Fortune thinks he has a 6 in =P

Debating, with a specialization in Internet Forums. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Shrug. I made no such claim. In fact, I was very careful not to even imply as much. What I did specifically state was that I personally knew people among the Dumpshock alumni with just such a skill level.

Also note that there was no exceptions made in the original post in regards to Knowledge Skills. Karaden's statement used the term 'any skill' (with only languages given any leeway), and he did not add any disclaimer about them until after my first post in this thread.

I've got a rating 6 skill in breaking crap I'm trying to fix (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I think that would be the Gremlins quality (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) On the bright side, you get more BP's from being good at breaking crap (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I've got Level 4 Gremlins, but only as pertains to printers. Look Here for details.

It could, but to be honest, if I were an adept I don't think I'd have turned out a lot different. It seems like a good fit for me.



You just made my week.

Considering it's Friday (for me) that's actually pretty good (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

MaxMahem:

STR 2
BOD 3
AGI 4
REA 3
LOG 7
INT 4
CHA 4
WIL 3

Chemistry: 4
Computers: 4
Law: 1 (but shooting for a 5!)
Blades: 1(3 Fencing)

---

But if I was a shadowrunner...

Well I don't feel like stating myself out. But I would probably be a lawyer/chemist/hacker. Not worth crap in a fight, but a fearsome foe when striking from behind the scenes!

ok, gonna stat me. but as to not cause any more flare ups I'll leave out my flippin' sweet skills, You know, like nunchuku skills, bow hunting skills, computer hacking skills.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)



Ok, thats not my real name...but this is a pretty good description of me today. will add the 400 bp of me later if the kids and wife will give me time...