Who cares? Even if the dice pool was in the 800's guess what? This character with his drones couldn't spot someone in a chameleon suit! This character has next to no infiltration, has no perception, has nothing as far as skill sets are concerned. I mean the character is not even a good sniper, because to be a good sniper you need much more then just a really good gun skill. To blind fire you need to at least know where the person is even if you can't see him/her. The character would probably be blind firing on every test he/she made if anyone has even a little bit of stealth during a meeting (and only if they have a spotter during the meet.) No this character might be rolling high dice, and I might even allow it. But the knife wielding infiltration, perception adept will munch the crap out of this sniper, and again one could give him a pistol or an assault rifle, but I'm still saying the knife wielding adept would be better then this tool.

7 dice on infiltration is not bad, but anyone with vision/hearing mods and some skill in perception will walk all over this character.

1) 1 Success each x5, = 5 hits. I only accounted for 4. So I have no problem there. Since each rating is only 200 Nyuen you can raise it from 1 to 6 and still have cash left over (or copy/edit 1 program)

1) Also I am not actually shooting the vehicle but the character inside. The problem with that old build is that he is still a passenger in a vehicle. I also never stated him out since the stats for that car are in arsenal. Don't forget I re-roll all 6's so its easy to drop the car in one shot.

Read my Edit at the bottom of my listing, if I am correct I will have more than enough BP to buy some perception, and the Tacsoft on the drones gives a +4 bonus to Perception (its possible they can aid me in it as well) so your entire argument is moot.

Then actually stat him out in full. Instead of only partially making him and then hand-waving any objections with 'I have BP for that'.

I already had requests for that and I did, feel free to take a look at the >Bottom< of the previous page.

EDIT: Double Post

Not quite. He means, fully stat the character out, like you would any other. Buy knowledge skills, commlinks, clothes, and a lifestyle, just as if you were going to play this character. (You will need a commlink anyway, in order to hook everything together.)

At the very least, buy ammo! I don't care how well he shoots, if he has no ammo! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smokin.gif)

Edit: forgot to add: I have my page settings set to a different number. So, referring to the "bottom of a page" is less than useful for anyone who's not on the default setting.

I see your point but my motivation is lacking as I won't be playing him anytime soon. This was just a excerise to help others out who might want to do something simlier, but people are demanding!

Lets see, The Milspec Helm has a Comlink with Rating 4 programs in it w/ encryption and gives +2/+2 armor so I thought it was a great steal at a availability of "-".
Go to Near bottom of page 1 where I lay down a step by step process and incidentally I discovered I don't even need a Longarms skill with a Guardian Spirit, I might not even need any Adept powers meaning I could go Full magician or put all points into Magic to grab a higher spirit.(this would net me like 40bp back) Only problem is when I checked out the guardian spirit in Street Magic I couldn't figure out how to calculate skills.

I won't bother to buy some knowledge skills as that changes person to person, but most likely he will have military type knowledge skills due to the fabricated background.

Eh a Street or Low lifestyle is fine in the beginning, after the first run you can go buy something.

Ammo is cheap yo, dime a dozen. If you are truly strapped for cash then pick up ammo off of the people you kill (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif)

Eh Figured it out Spirits skillz = Force, meaning I could summon a Force 10 Guardian Spirit Give it Longarms, Perception, +whatever else, then go to town. Saving the character BP for skillz

EDIT: The second Post on the First page contains up to date info concerning the use of a Guardian Spirit. Also added a NOTE on the first post directed people towards the second one.

Quick change info:

Base dice to shoot is 71 (142 W/Setup)
38 extra BP to do whatever with
Accurate dice calculations

Yeah I'm about to muddy the water here, but I have beef with a lot of Rage's dice, calculations etc. So I offer this

It didn't occur to me but your spoiler suggests that a new stat increase (I.E> Possesion) would further increase the augmented maximum. Which means I can grab even more dice by casting Improved Stat (Agi), interesting. This would raise my numbers to a base shot of 80 dice methinks. (160 w/ Setup)

Could someone run the numbers for me I am heading to bed soon and my mind is pretty foggy, with a base stat of 8 (augmented to 12) + 10 for the forces spirit = ? Whatever the "?" number is canj be added to my totals after grabbing a Increase Attribute (agi) spell.

Nope, sorry. Increase [Attribute] is gimped in SR4, compared to SR3. The relevant text is "The Force of the spell must equal of exceed the (augmented) value of the attribute being affected." Even using Edge can't get around that - Edge only unlocks the limitation to hits, but this is a separate limitation. So if you got an Agility of 14, the got a possessing spirit to increase it to 20, you would need a Force: 20 spell to affect your Agility.

Plus, as I pointed out, a possessing spirit uses it's own skill, not the character's. Although you would probably be out of luck trying to get a spirit with the long arms skill (and task spirits won't cut it - they are limited to technical and physical skills for their additional powers - the latter referring to a category of skills that is separate from combat skills). The spirit also wouldn't be able to make use of many of the other technological modifiers.

Actually, a Guardian spirit could do it, since it can take a Weapon skill as an optional power. Still, it wouldn't have nearly the dice that the un-possessed character would have, unless he summoned it at a huge Force-- which he cannot do.

So do explain how does setup work with firearms and how do the drones help you shoot? Setup, last I checked, was a martial arts maneuver that works on melee only and even then, won't double your DP unless you get a hit with every dice you roll. And if you use a spirit to posses you, you know, the spirit doesn't know any martial arts maneuvers. But as they don't work anyway, not a problem. Also the machine spirit's use bit odd to me as it's either you aiming or the spirit. Not both. The gun can't maneuver itself in any way so only thing the spirit can do is count your ammo even more efficiently.

So, uh, how does a smartlink add dice to your attack pool?

I'm not supporting Ragewind, it's just that I really do hate what you're purveying.

It's a guncam, laser designator and a range finder. Spirit can operate the machine's properties, yes, but how do any of the gun's electronics actually make the gun more accurate? Smartlink at least helps to aim.

And the weapon modification which improves the rangefinding capacity improves the bonus you get from your smartlink. Implying that the smartgun system is not perfect, and improvements to it will increase your dicepool.

Tada, the Machine sprite sticks its noodly appendage into the code for your smartgun system and factors in cross winds, deflections, et al. It continuously improves its algorithm to match what you compensate for automatically and, in doing so, improves the smartgun bonus. There's no difference between helping you aim and being "more accurate" in the mechanics of SR4.

So where does it get the extra information? Without extra sensors, nowhere. Just like the tac-software, you need extra info to gain something. And one could argue that it doesn't stack with tacsoft.

Let me see, which bonuses i can kill right out...

Being possessed bars you from using any AR, DNI, etc..
so:
no Bonus from an Machine Sprite (the "electronic" part of the Gun is the Smartgunsystem, which is inaccessible to the Spirit)
no Bonus from Tacnet

6 hits from an Analyse Device spell will give you only an +3 Bonus, because you must beat the ObjectResistance of your gun which is an electronic device.

The issue with Increase Agility has allready been stated out: in order to be usefull for this possessed Character, it would have to be Force 28

Redlining: the limb must be redlined before you are posessed, so it is already redlined for 3 rounds ( 1 being posessed, 2 taking aim) which will be about 18S after resisting and way enough to knock you out. so its way better *not* to redline, even considering the (Physical) drain suffered for conjuring 2 Force 10 Spirits beforehand

after a quick glance we still have:
23 Attribute
10 Skill
3 Analyse Device
1 laser sight
(omittting tracers, because FA Snipers are just plain silly and we aren't calculating Recoil)
-1 Wound Penalty ( 4P from conjuring 2 F10 Spirits)

---
36 Dice
not so scary, not more scary then being an Magician and summoning 2 F10 Spirits into combat.

Technically speaking, a Machine sprite using diagnostics isn't "possession". Possession is a magical ability held by certain spirits. Sprites aren't magical.

I know, yet our "sharpshooter" is being posessed by an guardian spirit and so can't access the smartgunsystem which is improved by the machine sprite.

I'm not entirely sure on that one, but I'm too damn tired to look it up right now.

Let's assume you're right. We've already established that he can't summon a Guardian spirit powerful enough to do what he needs, so we can eliminate that bonus instead. That means he keeps the Diagnose dice.

Also: Why can't you just have the machine sprite Diagnose the gun? And before you say "Because it can't aim", let me remind you that in Arsenal, you can have guns that walk, talk, and fly around your head going "tweet tweet". An auto-adjusting gun is not at all unreasonable.

It can analyse camera input for signs of winds in its view and to identify deflection surfaces (it can parallex via hand movements), it also has access to the matrix through LOLNOTMAGICITSRESONANCEHONEST to grab maps and weather data. It can identify the armour of a target and determine weak points by analysing image data (using gait analysis and object matching).

The fact is that it's amazingly efficient at doing these things, far more so than any normal program (and hence can do stuff that the Smartgun designers didn't due to the computational requirements). It can also use technovoodoo to get a "good enough" match on more undecidable aspects.

Synner has stated that Errata is forthcoming on Diagnose, but that in the meantime, because of the wording at present, it is left up to the GM's discretion.

Simply because the gun itself isn't an electronic device or. shooting the gun without the smartgun system isn't "using" the electronic device. It would be like... running diagnosis on a toaster and getting a bonus to hit someone on the head with it.