I've been kicking around a idea here for a bit, inspired by a few other threads. I remember reading that you can on average get to around 50 dice (to shoot something) if you try REALLY hard so I figured I would give it a shot.
Disclaimer: This entire post comes from memory so I might be off by a dice or two, also any optional rules used are considered to by acceptable as outlined below. All Situational modifiers are assumed to be in play

Below I will stat out a simple character capable of using all the modifiers listed below, everything that is to come can be made with a starting 400bp character. All spells are at 6 hits with a possible max of 12.

NOTE: Furthur down a much more detailed build exisits with up to date info.
Elf Sniper

Modifiers:

+14 Agility
+3 Tracer Rounds (Full Burst)
+2 Specialized in weapon (Whatever S. Rilfe)
+1 Laser Sight
+6 Possessing Spirit (+Stats) (+10 below)
+6 Analyze device (Sniper Rifle)
+6 Machine Spirit (Sniper Rifle)
+4 TAC drones
+10 Skill
+5 Take Aim
+5 Edge
+1 Large Target (+2 Very Large)
+5 Aid Another (Drones)
+1 Optimized Cyber Limb (Long Arms)
+2 Full Offense
=
+71 dice to fire a Sniper Rifle (72 +very Large)
+89 Max Spells/Spirit (+90)
+103 Redline (+104)

w/ Setup
+142 Dice (+144)
+178 Max (+180)
+206 Redline (+208)

EDIT: You can BUY like 40+ dice with the above numbers, if you were to actually roll the RULE OF SIX would garner MUCH higher numbers than those that are assumed.

A total of 208 possible dice to shoot something is pretty darn impressive in my book. PERFECT for going dragon hunting. Go one shot a Warship or take down a Space Station, anything larger than a truck is dead! Listed Below is a quick chargen for someone capable for using the above listed modifiers.

#11 AKA Titan Killer (T.K.) [Ex Military Sniper]

Edit: After a change in the base build I have 35 extra BP if I am correct. As mentioned above this was quickly done and I will go over everything later to make sure its up to spec.

Str 2 [8]
Agi 13 (14) [20]
Bod 3 [9]
Rea 3 [9]
Int 1
Log 1
Will 3
CHa 3
Initiative 10
Essence 5
Magic 5 (3 in Mana 2 in Power)
Edge 5

Skills:
Long Arms 10 (Weapon Spec) 12
Sorcery 4 (Divination) 6
Conjuring 4 (Whatever Spirit) 6

PQ's:
Mystic Adept
Adept (long arms)
Surge II
Martial Arts (whatever)


[b]Maneuvers:
Full Offense
Setup

MetaPQ's:[/b]
Metagenic Quality (Agi)

NQ's:
Combat Monster
Spirit Bane (Shadow)
Addiction (Moderate)

MetaNQ's:
Moodhair
...something worth 5 points

Spells: (All hits gained through Edge)
Analyze Device (Foci)
Improved Attribute (agi) (Foci)

Adept Powers:
Improved Skill (Longarms) x3
Something .5

Contact:
6/6 Technomancer (Fixer)
(Request Favor of Machine Spirit as per "Favors" table)

Gear: (100,000 resources) Note** This should be enough money I haven't worked prices out exactly**
Custom (optimized) Obvious Cyber Limb w/ (Agi Enhance +4)

Milspec Helm w/ R4 TAC software and Vision Enhance

Sniper Rifle w/ Smart Link Modded for Full Auto/Burt Fire

5 cheap drones [Micro Drone maybe?] (pref Hover type) w/ R4 TAC sofware and Targeting autosoft (Longarms) + Vision Enhance

Sustaining Foci x2 (already paid for and bound)

Setup: Lets see here, you AIM at something for 5 passes then shoot it (to get the take aim bonus). Depending on the size of the target your numbers may vary but regardless your going to kill whatever you shoot at. Your drones help you by spotting targets and Aiding another. You summon a spirit capable of possessing you to add his Force onto your AGI (the only one we care about) If there is not enough BP (there should be) then you can switch around stuff, like he doesn't even need Imp Reflexes or the Foci to go with it, that's 6 BP right there. If I used to little feel free to add something. The above character is a very loose build for the aforementioned modifiers, everything listed a starting character (who is a elf or other race with high agi) can do everything listed. Enjoy!

Well, I don't want to be greedy, and would be happy to leave other responders some questions, so I will follow your example and just take a few ideas off the top of my head.

1) How do you get Force 6 spirits when your Magic Attribute applicable to spirit conjuration is only 1 (max Force 2 spirits)?

2) How do you get 6 hits on spells when you can only cast spells at max Force 2?

3) How can you afford 2 Force 6 foci plus all the other goodies with 100,000 nuyen?

4) How can you get Force 6 foci when you are limited at character creation to availability 12?

5) How do you get 6 points of adept powers when you have a Magic Attribute of 4 for adept powers?

Ok, I will quit at 5 questions.

Am I missing something obvious, and this is really April 1st?

Peter

__Questions/Conserns____________
-how are you getting a skill of 10? Would you break down your skill a little more
-What do you mean by "Aid other (drones)"
-I wouldn't let you use martial arts for shooting.
-Without channeling, you can't get the stat boost from a spirit, and use your own skills, So this isn't a 400bp 0 karma build
-Where is this F6 spirit coming from in the first place? Your magician magic is 1.


Ok, for pushing this retarded monstrosity even further There are two tactics

First, go full magician. You hand waved hits on the spells, but that isn't really fair especially when you think about edge dice allowing you get more hits than force. Second if you pick up guardian spirits you can get even more skill than a meta-human can, and you don't have to worry about channeling.

Second, if you you are measuring success in terms of dice throw forget your sniper rifle and get a Missle. This will give you measly bonus equal to the signal of your target, but more importantly access to a spotter. A spotter would more or less be a clone of this build. Using them would cost you +3 for tracers, and whatever it takes to get your scatter down to 0, but you would gain a there net hits as bonus dice. Nice trade IMO.

Edge can be used to get more hits on spell than the force. It can be argued that you can put a force 1 spell with 6 hits on it in a F1 sustaining focus.
This build relies on getting lucky with edge a lot.


He (I assume) did correctly:
Improved ability(combat skill) .5 PP x3 =1.5
Improved attribute(Agility) 1 PP x 2 = 2
Random worth .5 = .5
total = 4.

Thing is though it's a total waist you can customize a cyber arm all the way to 11 and stay under the availability cap, bringing you just in range to hit 14 with the +3 you can use without a torso.

I laughed really really hard when I saw this character. The reason why? Intuition of 1! This means 0 dice for assensing on the astral. 0-3 dice for perception tests. Which basically someone with a force 3 conceal will win against this sniper every single time. Ha ha ha ha ha ha! That character is totally useless by himself!

Also if you possess yourself I would say you wouldn't get bonuses from drone targeting as you become dual natured and are forced to see on the astral.

QFT!


WTF? Dual natured does not mean astrally perceiving.

Eh. That character is still boned one way or the other. Oh yeah and the character gaining stats from the spirit is only viable if that character has 13 karma to spend on initiating and taking channeling later in the game.

I drew the concept of Ghouls being dual natured but only able to see on the astral. In looking at the rules a bit harder it seems like they are the only ones who are forced to perceive on the astral specifically.

*edit* I had to look up what QFT meant because I see it so often on a forum but I am never sure what it actually meant. So it is either Quoted For Truth or Quantum Field Theory. Me thinks it is the first one. Although I got a kick out of being confused and having to spend the extra 7 seconds to find out what its meaning was through the awesome that is Google. *edit*

Full burst from a sniper rifle? You'll be taking dice pool penalties for that, assuming you can do it.


This doesn't stack with the tracer rounds


Does the spirit have the longarms skill? Or are you using Channeling?

i cant help wondering if some of these source is bumping into the max augmented barrier...

You are correct. You can't have an augmented skill of 10 (skill of 7 with aptitude plus improved skill: 3) and have a reflex recorder. Lots of other things wrong (possessing spirit wouldn't use the character's skills or be able to use things like the smartlink, the full offense maneuver can't be used for ranged combat, etc.).

So basically what we have here is a repeat of the car-mech armor thread.

So, once, maybe twice per run he gets to add these modifiers.




He is raising the AGI Attribute above the racial maximum using various devices including the adept power. When using the adept power to raise an attribute above the racial maximum, it costs 2 points per improvement. If he uses the power before reaching the racial maximum, then how does he get the Attribute up that high?

Peter

Yeah, and we keep diving in despite seeing the obvious. What does that say about us? OCD, anyone?

Peter

Meh. He won't bother to actually build it using the rules, so I won't bother using them to say that it doesn't work.

Oh common you should know me by now after all we went through, lets get started shall we?

1) My agi is actually a 13, 7Base +2 Ability +4 Arm = 13. However! After thinking about it I don't know why I went about it in such a round about way and I am simply going to remove the 2 of the 4 points in Power and Move them to Mana. Incidently this allows me to now summon a Force 6 Spirit. /Fixed

2) Smart Link does not Stack with Tracers rounds...how about that. Lets change that to a Laser Sight for -1 dice. /Fixed

3) Reflex Recorder actually adds to the rating of the skill, I dont know how I missed that so we will remove it for a new total of -1 /Fixed

4) Full Offense Does work with any attack test, page 158 Arsenal

5) Recoil? It doesnt matter just but some RC and be done with it.

6)

Is that so bad? Both ideas work regardless and incidently this build can kill my Mech Mage Every Single Time, as a previous poster mentioned about Rockets I could destroy the Mech AND the Mage once I work that in.

7)

Right at it actually

8 )

Arsenal under Weapon Mods, Heck you can Supressive Fire with a Rocket Launcher if you build it right.

9)

The drones use the Aid Another action on me

10)

I'll look into that

11)

This is insanely clever! I nearly teared when I saw some "Constructive Criticism", I will CERTAINLY look into this, just off the top of my head I could prob get 800+ dice!, however two characters doing this defeats the purpose, what about that Automatic Tripod that can mount weapons? Lets say you spot the target yourself and then Jump into the Turret and Fire the missle yourself? Same effect most likely I will have to do some math indeed.

12)

Force 1 Foci, with a Force 1 spell inside of it w/ added hits from Edge

Yes lets make this better give me some more ideas and please point out things I might have missed, lets make this truly powerful.

Yeah, well, when you actually go through and do the BP calculations, let me know.


Only works if you're only using 1 arm to shoot the gun with. Also arguable that your torso is involved since the butt of the rifle is up against your shoulder.


Arse, 156, "The following martial arts optional rules provide a way for characters to expand their melee combat options."
Arse, 158, "Maneuvers are specialized movements and combat techniques used by martial artists to enhance their effectiveness."
And Arse, 160, "The Full Offense maneuver represents a near-berserker attack with no regard for defense. The character receives a +2 dice pool modifier on the attack test, but may not defend against any melee attacks until her next Action Phase."
Last I checked, near berserker attacks and martial arts didn't exactly work with guns all that well. And unless you're clubbing someone with your rifle, it doesn't work.


No, he can't. All his bullets would just bounce off the vehicle chassis.


Are you talking about the teamwork tests? Thats up to the GM to allow/disallow that, but I'm not sure how they'd aid your shooting a gun.


You realize most metahumans have crap for a signature right? And I doubt you can spot and shoot it yourself.

Rage, if you actually want to take this further I think you need to draft the build so we all know what we are talking about.

Hear, Hear! I love to twink as much as the next guy. I just don't understand how this character is built, and I don't want to spend the hours to prove/disprove it by going through the process. Ragewind, I would like to see how you did it, step by step so I can understand what is going on.

If you can do that, then I will apologize for my snarkiness earlier. In fact, I will apologize now.

I still don't think it can be done, though. And if it can, I suspect that as other focused characters are, this character will be a one trick pony with severe vulnerabilities. If I can indulge in analogy, there is the now extinct Irish Elk, which had the most awesome (read min-maxed) size and antlers of any deer ever. I can't imagine anything out-butting it. But... it's gone.

Peter

IIRC you can, in fact, fire a 2h gun with one hand with some sort of penalty, but Honestly I chose a Sniper Rifle since it has great range. Giving the character time to set up the shot and fire with little to no retaliation, in actuality the idea works with any weapon that uses agility to fire. You could get everything aforementioned with maybe a Ares Predator or something else that is 1H. Maybe I can work in some Milspec armor to grab that Articulated Arm


Page 158 also goes on to say that unless otherwise stated, they work with all other combat options. As a example, Finishing move specifically states a Melee attack, where as "Herding" does not.


How so? I am shooting into the mech targeting the mage, That character has around 120ish to 150ish armor and could not save against a attack with more To Hit than he has Armor (not including Rule of Six). The shot also does more than enough damage to bypass any barriers.
.

I also believe I mentioned that all options mentioned in the build are allowed. Either way the drones are capable of it.


Read what I wrote


Absolutely, I might actually get that done tonight but until this weekend comes around I am going to be very busy. So just keep checking in Ill get something set up. Although quick, the above character details the ending stats of the process and thus can be used.

I'm pretty sure there is a penalty for using it one handed. One not figured into your dice totals.


And yet you ignore that the entire section is stated to be used to expand melee attacks.


That whole barrier thing. Now, if you were able to get 800+ dice on this, then sure, I'd agree. With the dice you currently have, you don't penetrate.


Please, tell me how a drone "aid anothers" someone for shooting a gun. Rules quote would be nice, but even just describe how it works.

Alright I am going to divide this up into two sections, the first one will deal with stats and how we gained them. I won't go into too much detail as I believe everyone here actually knows the rules and will be able to see where I put my points.

We start with 200 BP to spend on Stats, the chosen character is a Elf (and costs 30 points)so has some modified stats with 2/7 AGI being the most important, which is where we will start.

Bod 1
Agi 2
Rea 1
Str 1
Cha 3
Int 1
Log 1
Wil 1

We then will raise the Agi to a 8 (gained though Metagenic Quality later on) which will cost us 95 points leaving 105.

Making our Agi look like.. (Edit: According to my spreadsheet I was using Pixie base stats! The new Agi will be lower BUMMER)

Agi 8 (12)

We now take a Customized [Optimized] Cyber Limb (Obvious), raise the Agi from 3 to 8, and buy 4 points of Agi (which raises Avil to 12R) making our new stat (when using that arm) look like..

Agi 12

With the left over points you can do whatever, lets assume we use 60/105, bringing out total for everything else to 245.

Now we go into everything else, starting which 245.

Being a Elf drops 30 points leaving us with 215,

Raising our magic from 1 to 6 (Mystic Adept) costs us 65 leaving us with 150.

Raising out Edge from 1 to 5 costs us 40, leaving us with 110 points.

Our new stats Look like (random stat placement for last 60 bp)

Bod 3
Agi 12
Rea 2
Str 1
Cha 3
Int 2
Log 1
Wil 3
Edge 5
Magic 5 (dropped from 6 to 5 w/ Essence loss) [5 into Mana, 0 into Power]
Essence 5 (dropped from 6 to 5 through Cyber arm)

We now have 110 points.

Onto PQ's and such..

PQ's (total worth of 30)
Mystic Adept 10
Restricted Gear (Tacsoft Rating 4) 5
Surge II 10
Martial Arts 5

NQ's (Total worth of 35)
Whatever you want

Metagenic PQ's: (Total worth of 20)
Metagenic Quality (agi)

Metagenic NQ's : (Total worth 10)
Whatever you want

Now onto Skills:
We need Conjuring at 6 that costs 28 of our 110 leaving us with 82.

We need Sorcery at 2 (Divination) costing 6 leaving us at 76

Note: Long Arms 10 gained through Force 10 Guardian Spirit

Resources (spent 25 BP leaving us with 56) for 125k, this should be enough to buy everything
Edit: 5 Extra BP gained from Negative qualities

Adept Powers:
None

Spells:
Analyze Device (Foci) costs 6 BP for a new total of 14
Note: Turns out I didn't need Improved Reflexes anyway

Contact : 4/6 Technomancer Fixer costs us 12 BP leaving us with 4

Maneuvers:
We bought 2 of them (Full Offense and Setup) costing us 4 total bringing us down to 0.

All that's left is to buy the gear lets see...

Milspec Helm with Rating 4 programs = 10,000

Dragonfly Drones x5 = 12500

Cyber Arm 15,000
+5000 for Agi enhance
+1000 for +4 Agi
= 21000

Total so far 43,500
EDIT: It has been pointed out to me that I only need to buy 1 Tacsoft and then Copy it 5 times for free. However in this instance I will pay for it.

Tac Soft Rating 4 (Apparently the Avil for a rating 4 is 20R, meaning I cannot fit it in a starting build...which is annoying. I can buy a Restricted Gear... but I would have to lose Adept...I suppose a -1 dice is better than -2, Changing now) Costs 72000 for the 5 drones and myself.

Total now is 115,500 leaving us with 10k

We also need at least a Rating 1 Auto Soft (longarms) for each of the drones which costs 200 x5 = 1000, leaving us with 9k.

We now will buy a HK XM30 w/ Sniper Mode for 3,500 with a Large Modification firing mode change to FA (+2000) leaving us with a new total of 5,500.

Left over cash 3,500, go buy some armor or something.
38 BP left over

-0 Dice to hit due to skill change (spirit)
-0 Dice from Aim bonus
-0 Dice from Teamwork
+2 from Agi change

Leaving our new numbers at

+71 dice to fire a Sniper Rifle (72 +very Large)
+89 Max Spells/Spirit (+90)
+103 Redline (+104) (Spirit Can't Redline the Limb, although you could set up a timer or something)

w/ Setup
+142 Dice (+144)
+178 Max (+180)
+206 Redline (+208) (Spirit Can't Redline, Although you could set up a timer or something)

EDIT: With the advent of a Guardian Spirit doing the firing the numbers actually improved with alot of extra BP, thanks to the previous poster who suggested it.

I do plan on changing it to a rocket to add Spotter tests to hit, if there is also a way for a sensor test addition that would be nice, but ah well. Using a rocket and a spotter (possibly the character himself) would effectively double the dice. All the above numbers would be effected give or take 6 dice.

EDIT: The Spirit is left un-detailed, Although other than a Longarms skill of 10, who knows what else it has. I left that open for someone to customize it to their preferences.

The idea was to see how much dice one could feasibly get as a starting character, hence it doesn't matter.



The part you are quoting is for the actual Martial Art (which I haven't chosen one yet), I am pulling off the section for Maneuvers.



The cocoon ONLY has a structure rating of 10, the characters typical shots are inflicting (with a sniper rifle) anywhere from 35-45P. Easily enough to punch through



The section for teamwork only specifies one would need to make a "Attack Test" which the drones can do since they have a targeting autosoft. The "Hits" are then added to the firing character. Maybe the drones are helping to move his arms, or maybe they are shouting advice, who knows. The rules don't care however

dunkie be praised that im not your GM

It does matter, if it affects the dice totals, since the point is to see how many dice you can get.


No, I am in fact, quoting from the first paragraph of the martial arts section, which addresses everything, including martial arts and maneuvers.


Structure rating doesn't count. Regardless, since you never actually statted out your vehicle of doom, it doesn't matter. But, off the top of my head, 20 armor + 10 smart armor + 6 armor spell + 6 physical barrier + 6 reinforce = 48 armor. So, assuming the vehicle got no hits on its dodge test, that'd be a rifle needing to do 48-33=15P damage, or have enough AP to lower that to what its damage value actually is.


For one, the absolute maximum benefit you can gain from that is 10 dice, if your skill is that high. (Improved ability/reflex recorders do augment skill rating, so that is possible). Also, rating 1 targetting soft on dragonfly drones... Pilot 3 + targetting 1 = 4 dice. So, on average they will roll 1 success each. Also note, any glitch those drones make, adds 1 to your threshold for success.

I have a hard time imagining that very many DMs are going to let you get away teamwork tests if you can't explain how they are helping you.

Who cares? Even if the dice pool was in the 800's guess what? This character with his drones couldn't spot someone in a chameleon suit! This character has next to no infiltration, has no perception, has nothing as far as skill sets are concerned. I mean the character is not even a good sniper, because to be a good sniper you need much more then just a really good gun skill. To blind fire you need to at least know where the person is even if you can't see him/her. The character would probably be blind firing on every test he/she made if anyone has even a little bit of stealth during a meeting (and only if they have a spotter during the meet.) No this character might be rolling high dice, and I might even allow it. But the knife wielding infiltration, perception adept will munch the crap out of this sniper, and again one could give him a pistol or an assault rifle, but I'm still saying the knife wielding adept would be better then this tool.

7 dice on infiltration is not bad, but anyone with vision/hearing mods and some skill in perception will walk all over this character.

1) 1 Success each x5, = 5 hits. I only accounted for 4. So I have no problem there. Since each rating is only 200 Nyuen you can raise it from 1 to 6 and still have cash left over (or copy/edit 1 program)

1) Also I am not actually shooting the vehicle but the character inside. The problem with that old build is that he is still a passenger in a vehicle. I also never stated him out since the stats for that car are in arsenal. Don't forget I re-roll all 6's so its easy to drop the car in one shot.

Read my Edit at the bottom of my listing, if I am correct I will have more than enough BP to buy some perception, and the Tacsoft on the drones gives a +4 bonus to Perception (its possible they can aid me in it as well) so your entire argument is moot.

Then actually stat him out in full. Instead of only partially making him and then hand-waving any objections with 'I have BP for that'.

I already had requests for that and I did, feel free to take a look at the >Bottom< of the previous page.

EDIT: Double Post

Not quite. He means, fully stat the character out, like you would any other. Buy knowledge skills, commlinks, clothes, and a lifestyle, just as if you were going to play this character. (You will need a commlink anyway, in order to hook everything together.)

At the very least, buy ammo! I don't care how well he shoots, if he has no ammo!

Edit: forgot to add: I have my page settings set to a different number. So, referring to the "bottom of a page" is less than useful for anyone who's not on the default setting.

I see your point but my motivation is lacking as I won't be playing him anytime soon. This was just a excerise to help others out who might want to do something simlier, but people are demanding!

Lets see, The Milspec Helm has a Comlink with Rating 4 programs in it w/ encryption and gives +2/+2 armor so I thought it was a great steal at a availability of "-".
Go to Near bottom of page 1 where I lay down a step by step process and incidentally I discovered I don't even need a Longarms skill with a Guardian Spirit, I might not even need any Adept powers meaning I could go Full magician or put all points into Magic to grab a higher spirit.(this would net me like 40bp back) Only problem is when I checked out the guardian spirit in Street Magic I couldn't figure out how to calculate skills.

I won't bother to buy some knowledge skills as that changes person to person, but most likely he will have military type knowledge skills due to the fabricated background.

Eh a Street or Low lifestyle is fine in the beginning, after the first run you can go buy something.

Ammo is cheap yo, dime a dozen. If you are truly strapped for cash then pick up ammo off of the people you kill

Eh Figured it out Spirits skillz = Force, meaning I could summon a Force 10 Guardian Spirit Give it Longarms, Perception, +whatever else, then go to town. Saving the character BP for skillz

EDIT: The second Post on the First page contains up to date info concerning the use of a Guardian Spirit. Also added a NOTE on the first post directed people towards the second one.

Quick change info:

Base dice to shoot is 71 (142 W/Setup)
38 extra BP to do whatever with
Accurate dice calculations

Yeah I'm about to muddy the water here, but I have beef with a lot of Rage's dice, calculations etc. So I offer this

It didn't occur to me but your spoiler suggests that a new stat increase (I.E> Possesion) would further increase the augmented maximum. Which means I can grab even more dice by casting Improved Stat (Agi), interesting. This would raise my numbers to a base shot of 80 dice methinks. (160 w/ Setup)

Could someone run the numbers for me I am heading to bed soon and my mind is pretty foggy, with a base stat of 8 (augmented to 12) + 10 for the forces spirit = ? Whatever the "?" number is canj be added to my totals after grabbing a Increase Attribute (agi) spell.

Nope, sorry. Increase [Attribute] is gimped in SR4, compared to SR3. The relevant text is "The Force of the spell must equal of exceed the (augmented) value of the attribute being affected." Even using Edge can't get around that - Edge only unlocks the limitation to hits, but this is a separate limitation. So if you got an Agility of 14, the got a possessing spirit to increase it to 20, you would need a Force: 20 spell to affect your Agility.

Plus, as I pointed out, a possessing spirit uses it's own skill, not the character's. Although you would probably be out of luck trying to get a spirit with the long arms skill (and task spirits won't cut it - they are limited to technical and physical skills for their additional powers - the latter referring to a category of skills that is separate from combat skills). The spirit also wouldn't be able to make use of many of the other technological modifiers.

Actually, a Guardian spirit could do it, since it can take a Weapon skill as an optional power. Still, it wouldn't have nearly the dice that the un-possessed character would have, unless he summoned it at a huge Force-- which he cannot do.

So do explain how does setup work with firearms and how do the drones help you shoot? Setup, last I checked, was a martial arts maneuver that works on melee only and even then, won't double your DP unless you get a hit with every dice you roll. And if you use a spirit to posses you, you know, the spirit doesn't know any martial arts maneuvers. But as they don't work anyway, not a problem. Also the machine spirit's use bit odd to me as it's either you aiming or the spirit. Not both. The gun can't maneuver itself in any way so only thing the spirit can do is count your ammo even more efficiently.

So, uh, how does a smartlink add dice to your attack pool?

I'm not supporting Ragewind, it's just that I really do hate what you're purveying.

It's a guncam, laser designator and a range finder. Spirit can operate the machine's properties, yes, but how do any of the gun's electronics actually make the gun more accurate? Smartlink at least helps to aim.

And the weapon modification which improves the rangefinding capacity improves the bonus you get from your smartlink. Implying that the smartgun system is not perfect, and improvements to it will increase your dicepool.

Tada, the Machine sprite sticks its noodly appendage into the code for your smartgun system and factors in cross winds, deflections, et al. It continuously improves its algorithm to match what you compensate for automatically and, in doing so, improves the smartgun bonus. There's no difference between helping you aim and being "more accurate" in the mechanics of SR4.

So where does it get the extra information? Without extra sensors, nowhere. Just like the tac-software, you need extra info to gain something. And one could argue that it doesn't stack with tacsoft.

Let me see, which bonuses i can kill right out...

Being possessed bars you from using any AR, DNI, etc..
so:
no Bonus from an Machine Sprite (the "electronic" part of the Gun is the Smartgunsystem, which is inaccessible to the Spirit)
no Bonus from Tacnet

6 hits from an Analyse Device spell will give you only an +3 Bonus, because you must beat the ObjectResistance of your gun which is an electronic device.

The issue with Increase Agility has allready been stated out: in order to be usefull for this possessed Character, it would have to be Force 28

Redlining: the limb must be redlined before you are posessed, so it is already redlined for 3 rounds ( 1 being posessed, 2 taking aim) which will be about 18S after resisting and way enough to knock you out. so its way better *not* to redline, even considering the (Physical) drain suffered for conjuring 2 Force 10 Spirits beforehand

after a quick glance we still have:
23 Attribute
10 Skill
3 Analyse Device
1 laser sight
(omittting tracers, because FA Snipers are just plain silly and we aren't calculating Recoil)
-1 Wound Penalty ( 4P from conjuring 2 F10 Spirits)

---
36 Dice
not so scary, not more scary then being an Magician and summoning 2 F10 Spirits into combat.

Technically speaking, a Machine sprite using diagnostics isn't "possession". Possession is a magical ability held by certain spirits. Sprites aren't magical.

I know, yet our "sharpshooter" is being posessed by an guardian spirit and so can't access the smartgunsystem which is improved by the machine sprite.

I'm not entirely sure on that one, but I'm too damn tired to look it up right now.

Let's assume you're right. We've already established that he can't summon a Guardian spirit powerful enough to do what he needs, so we can eliminate that bonus instead. That means he keeps the Diagnose dice.

Also: Why can't you just have the machine sprite Diagnose the gun? And before you say "Because it can't aim", let me remind you that in Arsenal, you can have guns that walk, talk, and fly around your head going "tweet tweet". An auto-adjusting gun is not at all unreasonable.

It can analyse camera input for signs of winds in its view and to identify deflection surfaces (it can parallex via hand movements), it also has access to the matrix through LOLNOTMAGICITSRESONANCEHONEST to grab maps and weather data. It can identify the armour of a target and determine weak points by analysing image data (using gait analysis and object matching).

The fact is that it's amazingly efficient at doing these things, far more so than any normal program (and hence can do stuff that the Smartgun designers didn't due to the computational requirements). It can also use technovoodoo to get a "good enough" match on more undecidable aspects.

Synner has stated that Errata is forthcoming on Diagnose, but that in the meantime, because of the wording at present, it is left up to the GM's discretion.

Simply because the gun itself isn't an electronic device or. shooting the gun without the smartgun system isn't "using" the electronic device. It would be like... running diagnosis on a toaster and getting a bonus to hit someone on the head with it.