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Draco18s
post Mar 6 2009, 05:59 PM
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QUOTE (ravensmuse @ Mar 6 2009, 12:54 PM) *
If we went by DnD standards, dragons are the horniest bunch of creatures this side of Penthouse.


Actually, that was a rationalization for why there were so many half dragons (most of which were PCs). Council of Wyrms really messed with things.
(Not that I mind, I enjoyed playing half dragon characters)
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Wesley Street
post Mar 6 2009, 05:59 PM
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From: http://secure.commandohq.com/download/File...Q-06-lowres.pdf

QUOTE
In 2018, the Treaty of Denver created the NAN and ended the war between the old USA and the Amerindian population. As one of the concessions of the war, it Denver was created as the Front Range Free Zone (FRFZ). A place where citizens of the Ute, Sioux, Aztlan, Pueblo Corporate Council, and United States of America could freely intermingle. Citizens of the FRFZ were immune to taxation by any of these nations. Instead, they were governed by the Council of Denver. Each of the 5 signatory nations had the right to appoint one council member.

That worked about as well as you might expect. The only thing the council could universally agree on was to tax the hell out of the city's inhabitants. (Flat 15% Income Tax, 10% VAT) The Ute, Sioux, and PCC councilors quickly formed a voting bloc, which enabled them to control most decisions in the city.

Things continued to deteriorate until 2023 when the UCAS decided it'd had enough. They sketched out a "sector" of the city and built a wall around it. The other 4 signatories promptly took similar actions.

In 2034, the CAS seceded from the UCAS. To accommodate this split, the UCAS Sector was split into two parts. The CAS was then given a voting spot on the Council. Because votes needed to be won by a simple majority, and there were now 6 council members, there was suddenly a large problem with tie votes.

In December of 2061, Ghostwalker came back to Denver. He claimed the city as his lair, annihilated the Aztlan Sector, and kicked the survivors out. This event, rather neatly, returned the council to an odd number of voters, and resolved the problem of ties. However, Ghostwalker also announced that the council ruled only with his permission. He had the council create the Zone Defense Force (ZDF). The ZDF is a military group created out of an equal number of troops from each of the 5 (remaining) treaty nations. The ZDF answers directly to Ghostwalker and has authority in all sectors of Denver.

In 2067, the Ute nation was absorbed by the PCC. When this happened, the Ute lost their seat on the Council and that sector came under PCC rule. This left the Council of Denver Representatives at 4 members. All council meetings also include Ghostwalker's representative, an Ork Shaman named Nicholas Whitebird.

Nope, it's Zone territory alright, not CAS.
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Wesley Street
post Mar 6 2009, 06:03 PM
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QUOTE (Draco18s @ Mar 6 2009, 12:50 PM) *
Well, for one, you're only assuming they're egg laying lizards (but they probably are)
Two, MAGIC. Solves all problems.
Likely dragon spunk is so....spunky that it persists even when the dragon is in an alternate metahuman form. Sorta like D&D's explanation.

Dragons of the Sixth World goes into all the biology. So yeah, they lay eggs. But I can accept that they took metahuman form when they got their freak on (cue: the best pop band of 1993, Another Level) with the elves.

QUOTE (ravensmuse)
If we went by DnD standards, dragons are the horniest bunch of creatures this side of Penthouse.

And the most sexually confused this side of Catherine the Great.

QUOTE (ravensmuse)
Here's a good one: did Mitsuhama / Renraku gain any insight about the bugs from Project: HOPE (I think that was the corp / name). And if they did, what kind of research did they get?

Project Hope was a joint effort between Renraku and New Dawn Environics, a subsidiary of the Universal Brotherhood (before they were outlawed). They gained a lot of good dirt on "subjective time dilation" through illegal experimentation but, at the time, they were unaware of the insect spirit connection with the project. There was probably a collective head-slap in Neo-Tokyo after that day.
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Draco18s
post Mar 6 2009, 06:06 PM
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QUOTE (Wesley Street @ Mar 6 2009, 01:03 PM) *
Dragons of the Sixth World goes into all the biology. So yeah, they lay eggs.


I've got the book but its been a few years since I cracked it open. I've read about mammalian dragons (See: Irene Radford's The Glass Dragon) so I was jesting about it (people assume XYZ about dragons and it isn't universally true, such as wings or flying, or well, any property typically ascribed to them, see Our Dragons Are Different).
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the_real_elwood
post Mar 7 2009, 04:42 AM
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Ok, how about another question. Who was it that taught the blood magic rituals to the NAN shamans for the Great Ghost Dance? Was it something the NAN shamans just stumbled on? Also, any other information about the GGD? Like, where or who?
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tisoz
post Mar 7 2009, 05:40 AM
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QUOTE (the_real_elwood @ Mar 6 2009, 11:42 PM) *
Ok, how about another question. Who was it that taught the blood magic rituals to the NAN shamans for the Great Ghost Dance? Was it something the NAN shamans just stumbled on? Also, any other information about the GGD? Like, where or who?

I'm away from my books right now, but SR1, IIRC, tells about the creatiom of the SR universe in a bit more detail. I think the same guy who led the native americans out of the internment camps, through a hail of ineffectual gunfire, was also instrumental in organizing the GGD, and the NAN, and it is hinted at the formation of Tir Tairngire, then disappeared.

It is also claimed that Aina's half-horror son taught the natives the dance.

In Halequin's back, the team goes to the physical location of the GGD to begin their astral quest.
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the_real_elwood
post Mar 7 2009, 06:14 AM
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QUOTE (tisoz @ Mar 6 2009, 11:40 PM) *
I'm away from my books right now, but SR1, IIRC, tells about the creatiom of the SR universe in a bit more detail. I think the same guy who led the native americans out of the internment camps, through a hail of ineffectual gunfire, was also instrumental in organizing the GGD, and the NAN, and it is hinted at the formation of Tir Tairngire, then disappeared.

It is also claimed that Aina's half-horror son taught the natives the dance.

In Halequin's back, the team goes to the physical location of the GGD to begin their astral quest.


I always thought that the scene in Harlequin's Back where they travel to the site of the GGD was still a part of the astral quest, even though it appeared to take place in the real world. And even then, it's not terribly specific about where the GGD actually took place. But even though the mana spike there has supposedly been leveled out, you've got to imagine that it'd be an awfully impressive power site.
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Wesley Street
post Mar 7 2009, 06:38 AM
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Daniel Howling Coyote was the Amerind leader and prophet who led his followers out of the Abeline Re-Education Center. It's never been specifically stated where the Great Ghost Dance took place, though it's probably safe to say it was somewhere in the West and we know the actual dance took place in a 20 meter circle. In Harlequin's Back, Harlequin expressed his own amazement at how the Amerinds had utilized the GGD and rhetorically asked if the participants used drums, just danced, if the ground opened, how many died, and how many wished they'd died. And, yes, once the runners encountered Harlequin, they were technically on the astral quest. Everything they were seeing was representational.
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Hagga
post Mar 7 2009, 01:35 PM
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QUOTE (Draco18s @ Mar 6 2009, 06:17 AM) *
#1: Ghostwalker is Big D's brother (they're assumed to be Icewing and Mountainshadow from Earthdawn). Big D commited suicide to create an artifact to undo the work of boodmages and (hopefully) delay the Horrors (Earthdawn Big Bads). It's called The Dragon's Heart, you can read about it in the Dragon Heart saga (1990s SR novel trilogy). In the books it's effectively a force 10 power foci.

I'm fairly sure it's something a wee bit more powerful, but only in the hands of Dunkelzahn's spirit or another dragon.
QUOTE (Draco18s @ Mar 6 2009, 06:17 AM) *
#2: They're the Immortal Elves. There are only 2 or 3 known by name (Eliohan the Scribe is one), and about 6 to 8 verified (though unnamed in canon) IIRC, but many elves claim to be immortal. The IE hide out with the dragons during the low magic cycle. Dragons enter into a ~5000 year sleep/hibernation during the low magic cycle (the dates of the beginning of an age are when the first dragon wakes up to the end, when the last falls asleep).

No. There are a *lot* of named Immortal Elves who were kicking around in Earthdawn, but only Frosty (and MAYBE Alachia's daughter) have the immortality gene and have been born in the new age. They don't hide out with the Dragons, the dragons would eat them. They do not get along very well at all, in fact. It's why Aina is persona non grata in IE society, because she sided with the wyrms instead of the immortal elves over something. This is where my understanding gets fuzzy, but the elves are actually the children of dragons in elven form mating with metahumans and then working draconic ritual magic on them. There might be other immortal members of races out there, but I doubt it. Somewhere, the IE's decided to say "Sod off" to the Dragons, as they were done being their wacky servants, the purpose for which they were originally created. Enter drakes.
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TBRMInsanity
post Mar 7 2009, 02:23 PM
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The GGD is a part of native American culture. Back in the 1800's the US government tried to stop it (along with all elements of NA culture). Like with Voodoo in Central America. When the world become awakened, the old mystical acts started to really work.
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Snow_Fox
post Mar 7 2009, 05:52 PM
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QUOTE (Wesley Street @ Mar 6 2009, 01:03 PM) *
Dragons of the Sixth World goes into all the biology. So yeah, they lay eggs.

I thought they were all stolen during the downtime by evil wizards who corrupted them.
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AllTheNothing
post Mar 8 2009, 12:07 AM
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QUOTE (Snow_Fox @ Mar 7 2009, 06:52 PM) *
I thought they were all stolen during the downtime by evil wizards who corrupted them.

No, that happened in the 4th world and resulted into the creation of the Hydras.
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Hagga
post Mar 8 2009, 01:20 AM
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I think it was the Sea Dragon's eggs that were stolen, by a member of the OUtcast's house. Again, fuzzy.
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Bai Shen
post Mar 8 2009, 03:13 AM
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QUOTE (ravensmuse @ Mar 6 2009, 12:36 PM) *
But that would make brown nipples non-canon. And we can't have that.

I'll give you one: who was it that sent the myserious message that Fastjack intercepted?


Which message was that?

Also, wasn't GW freed by Talon in The Burning Time? Not positive that's the correct book, but I'm pretty sure.
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TBRMInsanity
post Mar 8 2009, 03:40 AM
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QUOTE (Hagga @ Mar 7 2009, 07:20 PM) *
I think it was the Sea Dragon's eggs that were stolen, by a member of the OUtcast's house. Again, fuzzy.


Dragons of the Sixth World says it was Rhonabwy that stole the eggs. A dragon's type is determined by their mentor not the type of their parents. As such dragon eggs are worth more then all the gold in the world to a dragon. It gives them a chance to influence and control the next generation of dragon kind. The fact that Rhonabwy has the largest clutch of eggs means he is trying to immortalize himself and possibly possition himself to be able to take the position of Loremaster in the future.
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Hagga
post Mar 8 2009, 10:10 AM
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I meant one clutch previously - and Hestaby has those eggs, not Rhonabwy. He gave them to her for safe keeping.
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the_dunner
post Mar 8 2009, 12:49 PM
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QUOTE (Hagga @ Mar 8 2009, 06:10 AM) *
I meant one clutch previously - and Hestaby has those eggs, not Rhonabwy. He gave them to her for safe keeping.

That's correct. There are two other key points revealed in the storyline of those eggs:
1) It's very unusual for a great dragon to have an urge to mate. Typically, it's only adult dragons that mate.
2) Dragons don't ever raise their own eggs. They're always entrusted to a different great dragon. The Sea Dragon is considered a bit of a pervert for wanting to hatch her own eggs.
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Demonseed Elite
post Mar 8 2009, 06:54 PM
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QUOTE (Bai Shen @ Mar 7 2009, 10:13 PM) *
Also, wasn't GW freed by Talon in The Burning Time? Not positive that's the correct book, but I'm pretty sure.


No, but he did supposedly witness Ghostwalker's arrival in the astral.
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AllTheNothing
post Mar 8 2009, 09:51 PM
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QUOTE (Hagga @ Mar 8 2009, 02:20 AM) *
I think it was the Sea Dragon's eggs that were stolen, by a member of the OUtcast's house. Again, fuzzy.

No the egg's stolen by the Outcast's clan were from the Loremaster before Master of Secrets; she mated before becoming a Great Dragon and chose to raise the hatchlings herself (just like Allwing did before her), it seems that she was one of the most eager among the dragons to hunt down the offspring of the Outcast when he refused to stop producing dragonkins, he tooke it personal (I don't think he proved any particular feeling for his offspring thought) and instructed one of his dragonkins (one that managed to survive the hunt) to win the Loremaster's friendship and trust, and when the eggs were about to hatch he stole them and performed a rite that merged several of them together creating the first Hydra, the Loremaster seing it went insane, slain the fragger and committed suicide impaling herself with a mountain (the one in wich she had hers lair).
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Hagga
post Mar 9 2009, 12:44 AM
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QUOTE (AllTheNothing @ Mar 8 2009, 09:51 PM) *
No the egg's stolen by the Outcast's clan were from the Loremaster before Master of Secrets; she mated before becoming a Great Dragon and chose to raise the hatchlings herself (just like Allwing did before her), it seems that she was one of the most eager among the dragons to hunt down the offspring of the Outcast when he refused to stop producing dragonkins, he tooke it personal (I don't think he proved any particular feeling for his offspring thought) and instructed one of his dragonkins (one that managed to survive the hunt) to win the Loremaster's friendship and trust, and when the eggs were about to hatch he stole them and performed a rite that merged several of them together creating the first Hydra, the Loremaster seing it went insane, slain the fragger and committed suicide impaling herself with a mountain (the one in wich she had hers lair).

..
No. See, that IS All-wings, not all-wings before her. All-Wings who committed suicide on Wyrmspire, her lair. I forget why. As far as I know there is only one Leviathan-Great in Earthdawn (I don't have the Dragons book available now at your local Ancient HIstory's friendly download area). And I was wrong, it's Thermail who's eggs were stolen and used to create the Hydra, not the Great Leviathan.
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AllTheNothing
post Mar 9 2009, 11:59 AM
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QUOTE (Hagga @ Mar 9 2009, 01:44 AM) *
..
No. See, that IS All-wings, not all-wings before her. All-Wings who committed suicide on Wyrmspire, her lair. I forget why. As far as I know there is only one Leviathan-Great in Earthdawn (I don't have the Dragons book available now at your local Ancient HIstory's friendly download area). And I was wrong, it's Thermail who's eggs were stolen and used to create the Hydra, not the Great Leviathan.

I'm sorry but I'm not native to english and I can't quite get the point of your post.
Anyway I was speaking of Thermail, you can take a look to the Ancient Files for more info on her and Master of Secrets
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darthmord
post Mar 9 2009, 03:34 PM
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QUOTE (the_dunner @ Mar 8 2009, 08:49 AM) *
That's correct. There are two other key points revealed in the storyline of those eggs:
1) It's very unusual for a great dragon to have an urge to mate. Typically, it's only adult dragons that mate.
2) Dragons don't ever raise their own eggs. They're always entrusted to a different great dragon. The Sea Dragon is considered a bit of a pervert for wanting to hatch her own eggs.


I do want to point out that Big D's and Ghostwalker's mother raised her own cluth of eggs. She was celebrated for having done so because her cluth of eggs resulted in some of the most impressive dragons to come of age.
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Cunning Rat
post Mar 13 2009, 02:36 PM
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QUOTE (Hagga @ Mar 7 2009, 09:35 AM) *
This is where my understanding gets fuzzy, but the elves are actually the children of dragons in elven form mating with metahumans and then working draconic ritual magic on them.


My understanding is a bit fuzzy as well -- it's been a long time since I ran Earthdawn -- but I'm pretty sure that's not correct. Below is what I've worked out: it's a mix of direct statements and strong implication in the source material.

  • All elves, immortal and non, are the product of draconic magic: they were originally created by the dragons (from human stock, I would presume) to be their servants, as well as to take care of the dragons' bodies during the downcycle. Alamais/Alamaise was the one who came up with the idea. This was done during the Second Age. Immortal elves were intended to be the bosses/overseers/favored servants.
  • Sometime during the late Second Age, an IE whose name I forget (although there was an implication, IIRC, that she was related to Alachia or was Alachia herself) led a rebellion and freed the elves, inflicting a horrible wound on Alamaise in the process. There are references to a scar on Alamaise's chest in Earthdawn (and I *think* in Shadowrun as well) that's where it comes from. The dragons were beginning to go nighty-night at the time, and couldn't do much about it.
  • In the early Fourth Age, Alamaise attempted to reclaim the elves as servants. With typical draconic sense of tact (i.e. none) he did it by eating an elven Queen. Needless to say, this did not endear him to anyone. Alachia came to power as Queen in the primary Elven community at the time (called Wyrm Wood) and kept power for a good long time, doing her best to fan the flames of hatred. (Alachia is a b*tch of the first water, but that's neither here nor there.)
  • Icewing (aka Ghostwalker), in a search for more reliable servants, drew on his well-known mastery of spirits and invented the ritual to create Drakes. Drakes in ED source material were created from pure mana. Some time later, a young Human girl (named Aardelea) came along who could somehow acquire and exhibit Drake abilities. There was a series of ED adventures and adventure seeds that had the party rescue her at Icewing's behest, lose her to (I think) the Therans, rescue her again, etc. The implication is that this is where the SR Drakes came from, but that's pure conjecture.
  • Mating with metahumans (or at least mating with metahumans to produce children) was, in Draconic society, a complete and utter no-no. A great dragon named Denairastas the Outcast did it anyway, using his progeny as servants. I don't remember whether he was outcast for doing it, or whether he did it because he was outcast and Icewing wouldn't give him the drake creation ritual, but the fact remains that he was the only one to do it, and the other dragons hated him for it. Since he doesn't appear to be around anymore, and Dunkelzahn/Ghostwalker survived till the 6th age, I would assume the prohibition on children is still in place.... although there is at least one dragon in SR canon who does the blanket hornpipe with metahumans, so maybe non-procreation is OK...
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Cunning Rat
post Mar 13 2009, 03:53 PM
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QUOTE (Hagga @ Mar 7 2009, 09:35 AM) *
only Frosty (and MAYBE Alachia's daughter) have the immortality gene and have been born in the new age


And Glasgian Oakforest. We shouldn't forget that little <censored>, much as we'd like to.
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Draco18s
post Mar 13 2009, 08:28 PM
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QUOTE (Cunning Rat @ Mar 13 2009, 09:36 AM) *
  • Icewing (aka Ghostwalker), in a search for more reliable servants, drew on his well-known mastery of spirits and invented the ritual to create Drakes. Drakes in ED source material were created from pure mana. Some time later, a young Human girl (named Aardelea) came along who could somehow acquire and exhibit Drake abilities


From what I recall from SR3 (Dragons of the Sixth World) Bred Drakes were the progeny of created drakes.
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