![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
![]()
Post
#1
|
|
Target ![]() Group: Members Posts: 97 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Caledonia,WI,UCAS Member No.: 885 ![]() |
Well I guess I just have a clueless group of players. We have fun, tell a good story(I hope), enjoy the game. All I hear on these forums, is how this is really going to screw up mages and ruin SR forever. Does everyone realize that the whole purpose is to have fun? I have yet to play a mage or have a mage character the was not a fun intergal part of the group and used all his skills as best he could. I have had spellcasters knocked out from drain, blow whole city blocks and everything inbetween. If you don't like the rules don't use them. If you like the rules use them. CGL has made a great edition to SR. I have been playing this since day 1, I was one of the first to pick this game up in Milwaukee(I know hard to prove but I am pretty sure on that) and I am getting worn out listening to all these complaints. Hey we all love the game and I know most of it is done with love in mind, just wanting to make sure out beloved game continues, but come on people lets all step back take a deep breath and call Mr. Johnson and ask what the next job is.
Just my $.02. Sorry if this sounds like trolling or flaming just like everyone else I just want to see my favorite game survive. Trevor L. |
|
|
![]()
Post
#2
|
|
Shooting Target ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,768 Joined: 31-October 08 From: Redmond (Yes, really) Member No.: 16,558 ![]() |
It's nice to see a positive, non-flaming post about this (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
No matter what play style you prefer, I agree: Please remember that we're here to have fun. |
|
|
![]()
Post
#3
|
|
Immortal Elf ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 10,289 Joined: 2-October 08 Member No.: 16,392 ![]() |
I have yet to play a mage or have a mage character the was not a fun intergal part of the group and used all his skills as best he could. So in other words, it's fun to Not Be Capable Of Anything? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/spin.gif) That is, an illusion mage who can't cast illusions well enough to hide from a simple camera just because he didn't buy his magic up to 8. |
|
|
![]()
Post
#4
|
|
Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 337 Joined: 1-September 06 From: LI, New York Member No.: 9,286 ![]() |
Well I guess I just have a clueless group of players. We have fun, tell a good story(I hope), enjoy the game. All I hear on these forums, is how this is really going to screw up mages and ruin SR forever. Does everyone realize that the whole purpose is to have fun? I have yet to play a mage or have a mage character the was not a fun intergal part of the group and used all his skills as best he could. I have had spellcasters knocked out from drain, blow whole city blocks and everything inbetween. If you don't like the rules don't use them. If you like the rules use them. CGL has made a great edition to SR. I have been playing this since day 1, I was one of the first to pick this game up in Milwaukee(I know hard to prove but I am pretty sure on that) and I am getting worn out listening to all these complaints. Hey we all love the game and I know most of it is done with love in mind, just wanting to make sure out beloved game continues, but come on people lets all step back take a deep breath and call Mr. Johnson and ask what the next job is. Just my $.02. Sorry if this sounds like trolling or flaming just like everyone else I just want to see my favorite game survive. Trevor L. Yes, the idea is to have fun. We can have fun with the rules changes. We can, and will, adapt. The problem is not changing the rules. The problem is the way they where changed. And: 'Drink up Socrates! It's all natural!" |
|
|
![]()
Post
#5
|
|
Target ![]() Group: Members Posts: 97 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Caledonia,WI,UCAS Member No.: 885 ![]() |
Well, I will say I have not used the SR4A rules yet, but I guess my play style is just out there. I can honestly say have have never used an Illusion spell in SR.
|
|
|
![]()
Post
#6
|
|
Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 829 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 770 ![]() |
Besides - a lot of the complaints are coming from people who play at conventions...which pretty much means they're stuck with the rules-as-written.
And this isn't nearly the doom-and-gloom scene that was the launch of SR4. |
|
|
![]()
Post
#7
|
|
Shadow Cartographer ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 3,737 Joined: 2-June 06 From: Secret Tunnels under the UK (South West) Member No.: 8,636 ![]() |
I like most of the changes and have a lot of respect for the devs and what they've accomplished. And I've been praising the loveliness of the Anniversary Edition repeatedly.
There are just two changes of concern to me. One has issues but I'm keeping it. The other I don't like and am getting rid of. But in neither case am I giving up on a great edition of a great game. So, yes - good to have a positive thread on this. |
|
|
![]()
Post
#8
|
|
Running Target ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,336 Joined: 25-February 08 From: San Mateo CA Member No.: 15,708 ![]() |
So in other words, it's fun to Not Be Capable Of Anything? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/spin.gif) That is, an illusion mage who can't cast illusions well enough to hide from a simple camera just because he didn't buy his magic up to 8. Blatant exaggeration hurts your cause. Synnner posted OR 4 for cameras, yes? 5 magic 5 spellcasting 2 from mentor, average roll...(Rod Forbid that someone with an illusion mentor spirit have an edge (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) ) The caster knows how successful before field test, yes? Mages can do sooo much more than trick cameras yes? And they are the only ones who can fool all the cameras. Is it harder now? Yes. The forums are certainly not as much fun when one has to read the same biased information over and over. This goes for me too, so I have tried to slow down the old post chain on these subjects |
|
|
![]()
Post
#9
|
|
Immortal Elf ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 10,289 Joined: 2-October 08 Member No.: 16,392 ![]() |
Well, I will say I have not used the SR4A rules yet, but I guess my play style is just out there. I can honestly say have have never used an Illusion spell in SR. This really happened: Mage: I mind control the troll and have him open fire on the rest of the security guards. GM: The other security open fire and drop him Mage: I cast Trid Phatasm and make it look like the troll rises from the dead and saunters into the room, taking all the lead the security team can throw at him. PCs: Under the cover of the distraction we grab what we need and run. You have no idea how effective Illusions can be. Same mage a few sessions later Trid Phantasm'd up some trolls in the middle of a gang fight (we were busting in on the gang's headquaters) and the four or six guys in this other room see these trolls walk in with miniguns and surrender (the first room we'd slaughtered, trolls did take a little flak, but being illusions it didn't matter...except that it was flak not directed at a PC). |
|
|
![]()
Post
#10
|
|
Shooting Target ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,768 Joined: 31-October 08 From: Redmond (Yes, really) Member No.: 16,558 ![]() |
This really happened: Mage: I mind control the troll and have him open fire on the rest of the security guards. GM: The other security open fire and drop him Mage: I cast Trid Phatasm and make it look like the troll rises from the dead and saunters into the room, taking all the lead the security team can throw at him. PCs: Under the cover of the distraction we grab what we need and run. You have no idea how effective Illusions can be. Same mage a few sessions later Trid Phantasm'd up some trolls in the middle of a gang fight (we were busting in on the gang's headquaters) and the four or six guys in this other room see these trolls walk in with miniguns and surrender (the first room we'd slaughtered, trolls did take a little flak, but being illusions it didn't matter...except that it was flak not directed at a PC). O.o I'm building an illusionist now. |
|
|
![]()
Post
#11
|
|
Immortal Elf ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 10,289 Joined: 2-October 08 Member No.: 16,392 ![]() |
A generous GM will cause the firearms from the illusions to use up dodges. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
Ours wasn't that generous. |
|
|
![]()
Post
#12
|
|
Shooting Target ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,653 Joined: 22-January 08 Member No.: 15,430 ![]() |
The irony to me is that most of the people screaming bloody murder probably use their own houserules already, anyway. The only people who care deeply about the fine-tuned mechanics of the game system are the same people who tweak and re-tweak it to their liking. People are going to throw a huge fit, and then either keep using the same old rules, or house-rule the stuff they don't like. Which they've probably done already -- nobody who's going to pitch a fit about these things is likely to be a purist who plays SR4 wholly unaltered in the first place. You can rage about how the game system should be perfect and you shouldn't need to make house rules, it should fit you like a glove fresh out of the box, but it's not going to change anything.
I agree with the OP's laid back style. It's a game about having fun. If the rules are messing up your fun, change them. The designers are trying to write a game that they think is fun, but despite their best efforts some people won't like it. Anyone who can blame them for that needs to get over themselves. |
|
|
![]()
Post
#13
|
|
Old Man of the North ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 10,206 Joined: 14-August 03 From: Just north of the Centre of the Universe Member No.: 5,463 ![]() |
I have been playing this since day 1, I was one of the first to pick this game up in Milwaukee(I know hard to prove but I am pretty sure on that) and I am getting worn out listening to all these complaints. Trevor L. I think I saw you there! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) |
|
|
![]()
Post
#14
|
|
panda! ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 ![]() |
|
|
|
![]()
Post
#15
|
|
Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 150 Joined: 4-November 08 Member No.: 16,567 ![]() |
thanks for the positive view
its all about the fun yeah, if you play at conventions, these are the rules you are stuck with homegames, i am gonna do th esame, keep what i like & toss the rest out the window and i still say its great designed book (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) |
|
|
![]()
Post
#16
|
|
Great Dragon ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 6,640 Joined: 6-June 04 Member No.: 6,383 ![]() |
Does everyone realize that the whole purpose is to have fun? What if the purpose is to have more fine-tuneable statistics? What if fun is defined as tactical battles with ninjas and little margin for error, like a 1970s groin-punching Avalon Hill game? Why are old Avalon Hill games like Titan still fun, whereas the blur of forgettable console video games rolling out today is totally forgettable? Because the first was challenging, cereberal, and memorable. The crap coming out today is two dimensional, easy, and repetitite. |
|
|
![]() ![]()
Post
#17
|
|
Running Target ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,173 Joined: 27-July 05 From: some backwater node Member No.: 7,520 ![]() |
It's nice to see a positive, non-flaming post about this (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Maybe you are, but I'm here to kick ass and chew bubble gum. And I'm all out of gum. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/spin.gif)
No matter what play style you prefer, I agree: Please remember that we're here to have fun. |
|
|
![]()
Post
#18
|
|
Deus Absconditus ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,742 Joined: 1-September 03 From: Downtown Seattle, UCAS Member No.: 5,566 ![]() |
Conversely, I'm all out of ass.
|
|
|
![]()
Post
#19
|
|
Grand Master of Run-Fu ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,840 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 178 ![]() |
In addition to the con players, there's some of us who play online heavily. Having to have different characters for SR4.0 and 4.5 is a pain in the butt.
There's also a good percentage of people who like the idea of the changes, but don't like how they're implemented, feeling like there's gaping abuse holes left in the ruleset. Overcasting direct combat spells is a huge example of this. |
|
|
![]()
Post
#20
|
|
Great Dragon ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 7,116 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,449 ![]() |
You know, if you're getting "worn out with the complaints", no one's forcing you to read the threads which are clearly labeled as SR4A discussion. People who have had their play style crapped all over by a drastic rules change have every right to speak their mind in a (relatively) civil manner. I haven't seen any obscenity-filled tirades or death threats in the discussion, just people's expressions of their disappointment with the changes, usually pretty specific and well-reasoned.
We all play for "fun", but some people's idea of fun involves their favorite characters being able to function well in certain areas within the fictional world of shadowrun. The rules of the game are there to provide a framework for resolving how everyone's characters fail or succeed, letting everyone participate in the same shared reality and adding a genuine random element to it. So anything impacting their fairness or consistency can make the game less fun. |
|
|
![]()
Post
#21
|
|
Immortal Elf ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 10,289 Joined: 2-October 08 Member No.: 16,392 ![]() |
I haven't seen any obscenity-filled tirades or death threats in the discussion, just people's expressions of their disappointment with the changes, usually pretty specific and well-reasoned. I'll kill you for that! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/spin.gif) |
|
|
![]()
Post
#22
|
|
Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 997 Joined: 20-October 08 Member No.: 16,537 ![]() |
I'll kill you for that! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/spin.gif) Out of topic: I've just noticed that your head's spinning with negative angular velocity. |
|
|
![]()
Post
#23
|
|
Shadow Cartographer ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 3,737 Joined: 2-June 06 From: Secret Tunnels under the UK (South West) Member No.: 8,636 ![]() |
Maybe you are, but I'm here to kick ass and chew bubble gum. And I'm all out of gum. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/spin.gif) I hate to be the one to break this news to you, but they're re-making that film. Or maybe "They" are re-making this film. Not against that in principle - all the cool ideas with non of the Eighties directing and plastic aliens... But based on previous examples of remakes, you might want to be afraid. And not for a good reason. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif) |
|
|
![]() ![]()
Post
#24
|
|
Running Target ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,173 Joined: 27-July 05 From: some backwater node Member No.: 7,520 ![]() |
You got to be kidding me. I am curious though, how much they will change the premise. Something along the lines of "They are the good guys and the guy with glasses is a terrorist loathing their way of life". I'm sure they can think of something worse, more removed even. Well, at least it will have improved visual value. Maybe it will entertain at least a little.
I have to re-watch that movie now. And yes, in a way I am afraid. Very much so. I just need to remember The Day the Earth was not told what the hell just happend to see possibilities for laughter and tears alike. |
|
|
![]()
Post
#25
|
|
Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 220 Joined: 15-March 09 Member No.: 16,972 ![]() |
It's a game about having fun. If the rules are messing up your fun, change them. The designers are trying to write a game that they think is fun... 1) It's not fun needing a completely tricked out mage with 18+ dice to affect even a microdrone. 2) It's easy for GMs to change the rules. But not having to change rules is better. Also, not everyone is in charge of changing the rules in the games they play in. 3) the designers are attempting to fix perceived problems, but are going about them in the wrong ways. They also tried to keep the spell design system intact, while simultaneously ruining 3 significantly large groups of spells. For me, these things are the opposite of fun. |
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 16th May 2025 - 10:41 AM |
Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.