 Former Green Beret, Character Critique |
  |
 May 3 2009, 10:54 PM
Post
#1
|
|
|
Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 704 Joined: 20-November 06 From: The seemingly unknown area of land between Seattle and Idaho. Member No.: 9,910  |
SSgt. Grady Simmons alias Grendel
Point Breakdown: Metatype- 0 Attributes- 220 Skills- 138 Contacts- 9 Qualities- 0 Gear- 33 Total- 400 [ Spoiler ] "Let's get something straight, I'm a professional. I'm a soldier. As long as the contract lasts I'll do what you say. I do reserve the right to refuse to follow an order that is stupid, unduly dangerous, or egregious. I will follow orders but I won't endanger civilians. If you want wanton destruction I suggest you go hire some street punks. I will however make your problem go away in an efficient and timely manner. If you need judicious applications of violence or accurate intel, then you have found the right merc. Now that we have that out of the way why don't you tell me about the nature of your problem and we can discuss compensation." A battle hardened warrior who has seen action in every hellhole from Tehran to the Yucatan, Grendel is driven to keep fighting, hoping to outrun his nightmares. As a Green Beret his job was to interface and negotiate with the locals. He was good at his job. Unfortunately his sterling career took a nosedive during an op in the Yucatan. His A-team was sent in to help train locals in guerilla warefare against Aztlan troops. During a LRRP he was taken prisoner by Aztlan troops. He broke under interrogation, and as a result his team was killed. He escaped detainment with aid from the locals only to courtmartialed upon return to the 'states. The courtmartial was unable to convict him but the damage was done. His career was over in short order. He took to the shadows, hoping to find redemption, or at least solace in the mercenary life. |
 |
 
|
|
May 4 2009, 12:05 AM
Post
#2
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 150 Joined: 4-November 08 Member No.: 16,567 |
hmm, just off the top...
this going along with basic character build.. you spent 220 BP on attributes, when allowed 200 BP if you got augmentation, look at SWAT cyber suite. drops both nuyen cost & essence cost, pg 48 if you take those 20 points, put them into skills. either bump up firearms and/or clsoe combat maybe pick pilot ground or aircraft, boat even what about outdoors group, instead of just survival? on 1st aid, spec. on combat wounds the quote is real good, and the background great |
|
|
|
|
May 4 2009, 01:05 AM
Post
#3
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 992 Joined: 23-December 08 From: the Tampa Sprawl Member No.: 16,707 |
Actually, he is fine on stats since the 20 points are in Edge.
* Consider dropping Infiltration and Survival. Take Stealth SG and Wilderness SG at 1 each. * Think about dropping Wired Reflexes and Skill wires, replace with Move-by-Wire 1. Granted it cost 33k more, but it would free up 0.6 essence, give you one more point of Reaction, and a bonus to dodge. * Why do you have the partial cyberarm with Commlink and Sim module with no computer skills besides datasearch? There are lots of other possible uses for the money/essence or even the cyberlimb. |
|
|
|
|
May 4 2009, 02:12 AM
Post
#4
|
|
|
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,192 Joined: 6-May 07 From: Texas - The RGV Member No.: 11,613 |
I would swap the Military Procedures knowledge skill for Insurgency Tactics. The Special Forces are mostly force multipliers and hearts and minds so they need this skill to help stop insurgents and to teach people how to be insurgents.
I don't see a bunch of Logic skills here so I would drop that by a point and increase Agility or Reaction. The Charisma + Influence SG works really well. Kudos as you're probably the first person I've seen on here to realize that SF is about people, not just lighting fires and blowing stuff up. First Aid(Combat Wounds) - 1(+2) Armorer(Firearms) - 1(+2) Remove Data Search Demolitions(IED) - 1(+2) because anything not directly manufactured is an IED, technically. Survival(Desert) - 2(+2) are the skill list changes I would make. Gives you a few more points and I would try to milk for a Close Combat SG of 3 if I could get it. |
|
|
|
|
May 4 2009, 02:29 AM
Post
#5
|
|
|
Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,653 Joined: 22-January 08 Member No.: 15,430 |
I dunno, I envision 2070's Special Forces to be more like The Major from Ghost in the Shell. What you've made is more of a grunt, someone who's got a well rounded skill set but no real special deadliness. I see Special Forces as being stuffed to the gills with cyberware, nasty guys who kill you without making a sound. Which is not your guy, because he only has 10 dice to kill you with smartlink, and he only has 7 dice to not make a sound, i.e. he makes lots of sounds.
The problem is that a Green Beret is trained in a broad set of skills, they can do stuff all by themselves because they're just that good. But if you make a build like that, you're nowhere near strong enough to be considered elite ex special forces because your points are spread too thin. The fact is, your normal level of BPs is just not enough to create an accurate ex special forces guy. I think this guy works great as a former G.I. Or maybe even one of your less terrifying special forces. But he's just too blah to be one of the elite IMO. The average streetsam would carve him like a turkey just because he's not anywhere near as cybered. Now, given your back story, the fact that he's a Green Beret who sucks at combat might make a bit of sense. Though I have no idea if they actually have population talker peoples, I sorta thought they were all dangerous stealth operatives, but I don't know much about it... EDIT: SR4A has a list of sample grunts that would give you a great idea of power levels. Your guy is more on the level of a cop. The elite special forces guy (a Red Samurai) is a lot better. Just the basic grunt in the Red Samurai has Agility 5(7) and Firearms 5, or 14 attack dice with his smartlink. If you're not close to that power level, I don't think you can be special forces. |
|
|
|
|
May 4 2009, 02:33 AM
Post
#6
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 992 Joined: 23-December 08 From: the Tampa Sprawl Member No.: 16,707 |
Oh, and one thing. SSgt is an Airforce rank, not an Army rank. If you want him to be a true 'Green Beret' then his rank would be SSG (Staff Sergeant) or SFC (Sergeant First Class). Larme is right though, he doesn't have the dice to back up being a Special Forces Operator.
|
|
|
|
|
May 4 2009, 02:35 AM
Post
#7
|
|
|
Freelance Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 7,324 Joined: 30-September 04 From: Texas Member No.: 6,714 |
QUOTE (Larme @ May 3 2009, 09:29 PM)  The fact is, your normal level of BPs is just not enough to create an accurate ex special forces guy. This. Take a look at the NPC section in one of the core books, and you'll see stats for some SpecOps types (Tir Ghosts are in the main book, IIRC). They're just out of scope with starting stats, as they should be. Why not be a Special Forces trainee who washed out for some reason, or something like that? That would be a lot more possible with starting points, would still give you some military training, etc. The only thing to take a hit would be your cool factor. |
|
|
|
|
May 4 2009, 03:43 AM
Post
#8
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 224 Joined: 6-April 02 From: ab.ca Member No.: 2,522 |
QUOTE (Larme @ May 3 2009, 08:29 PM) I dunno, I envision 2070's Special Forces to be more like The Major from Ghost in the Shell. Special Forces covers an umbrella of operations and I suspect you'd see greater specialization by 2070. The guys who are counter-terrorism or direct action oriented will probably be loaded the gills with augmentation and have crazy combat skills for that maximum impact in the shortest amount of time. The guys who are about deep reconnaissance or unconventional warfare probably keep a pretty simple augmentation layout to maximize reliability while in the middle of nowhere, and they would focus more on the social and survival aspects than sheer personal combat power. That being said, neither could probably be built properly at 400 BP. At least, not for special forces of AAA megacorps or first world governments. Special forces from the mercenary community or from a lesser power could be done reasonably well at 400 BP. I would suggest switching from a background in the Green Berets to a similar SOF community in your choice of small time power. (A-level megacorp, run-of-the-mill merc outfit, or developing/third world military.) They would need the broad skill sets you have on your character, but wouldn't have the assets to produce operators as effective as the major powers. |
|
|
|
|
May 4 2009, 04:36 AM
Post
#9
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 704 Joined: 20-November 06 From: The seemingly unknown area of land between Seattle and Idaho. Member No.: 9,910 |
InfinityzeN- I went with the commlink and sim module because there are so many things that those can help with. Especially when the team hacker does all their information warfare stuff. The reason for the limb itself is story related. I meant staff sergeant, I probably abbreviated it wrong.
psychophipps- I like the insurgency tactics idea, thanks. Thanks for the compliment as well. I took the docwagon skillsoft cluster for EMT work. It is useful to be able to do a data search when the hacker is occupied. As far as the IED specialization, I went with EOD because he is not really focused on setting them. Larme- It is true that Green Berets have a diverse skillset, however they do not do everything themselves. They are on a team for a reason. I was basically going for a social/combat build with the ability to step in elsewhere as necessary. As far as low dicepools go, he does have edge for a reason. Additionally my group uses cinematic rules. Also I do not have SR4A. What I was going for was a generalist team player type. Someone who is decent in a wide variety of scenarios. In a team situation he would probably be leader, interfacing with the public, leading negotiations, and backing up the sammy/adept/combat jock. |
|
|
|
|
May 4 2009, 07:10 AM
Post
#10
|
|
|
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,537 Joined: 27-August 06 From: Albuquerque NM Member No.: 9,234 |
Guys who are supposed to be low profile types able to blend in probably shouldn't have obvious cyberware. Other then that this looks OK. I might put more point in Spanish than Arabic, as the Spanish is part of the explicit backstory.
SF guys are not commandos or "operators". That role is filled in the US by Rangers at the low end, SEALs at the mid-tier and Delta/DevGrp at the high end. SF does training/building of foreign militaries, or creates foreign militaries. They are typically very skilled and determined guys, but they don't do direct action missions on a regular basis. You can't build a reasonable ex-SF guy given normal starting SR BPs and rules, so this looks ok. |
|
|
|
|
May 4 2009, 10:46 AM
Post
#11
|
|
|
Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,168 Joined: 15-April 05 From: Helsinki, Finland Member No.: 7,337 |
Actually, I made a rather believable Spec Ops person under 400 BP before. It is *possible*, though it is a bit difficult. But yeah, this particular guy is spread a bit thin skillwise. I mean, he's not a bad character at all; and since you want him as more of the ''backup fellow'', he can indeed do this with little problem.
750 Karma though(well, under the old x3 attribute system-might be more Karma now in the eratta to equal it out to the old 750)? No problem. (I'm wondering what the new Karma count will be to make up for the fact it's Attribute x 5 in SR4A, but then again, we play under the old rules anyhow so it's more of a curiosity than anything.) |
|
|
|
|
May 4 2009, 01:02 PM
Post
#12
|
|
|
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,192 Joined: 6-May 07 From: Texas - The RGV Member No.: 11,613 |
One thing to keep in mind is that a DP of 6 is pretty solidly in the "professional" category. You're not an expert or anything, but you can do the job without screwing up too often. 3 is a "typical stat" and 3 skill rating is "professional".
This is one area where the RAW and the descriptors don't hash out too well and RAW for wounding and other negative modifiers fall flat, IMO. If 13 DP makes you a Tir Ghost/Delta Force at a given skill, why is it sooo daaamn eeaasy to make a 15+ DP in (insert just about any concept you want here) at character gen? |
|
|
|
|
May 4 2009, 02:04 PM
Post
#13
|
|
|
Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,168 Joined: 15-April 05 From: Helsinki, Finland Member No.: 7,337 |
I've kind of wondered that myself. I Mean, you can get these DP's without even going overboard with ubertwinkage.
Agility 4(6.) 2 levels of Muscle Toner. Nothing out there. Pistols 4(+2). Not considered twinkage, IMO. I mean, it's a 'veteran' score but it's nothing out of the ordinary. Smartlink. Enjoy 14 DP and this was ''anti'' twinkage. If they were both softmaxed scores(which, having one 5 in a stat and one 5 in a skill does not constitute powergaming in my book), that's 16 dice, and it's amazingly easy to get. IMO, i would have redone some of the descriptors. |
|
|
|
|
May 4 2009, 03:07 PM
Post
#14
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 992 Joined: 23-December 08 From: the Tampa Sprawl Member No.: 16,707 |
QUOTE (kzt @ May 4 2009, 02:10 AM) SF guys are not commandos or "operators". That role is filled in the US by Rangers at the low end, SEALs at the mid-tier and Delta/DevGrp at the high end. SF does training/building of foreign militaries, or creates foreign militaries. They are typically very skilled and determined guys, but they don't do direct action missions on a regular basis. Ummmm.... NO. I work in the SOF community and I can tell you for a fact that SF guys are operators. As for Delta, they are just SF guys! Seriously, they are 1st Special Forces Group, Detachment Delta. And as for SF not going on missions much, BAHAHAHAHAHAH! Those guys are doing a heck of a lot more direct action missions right now then anything else. Rangers are not "operators" in the slightest sense of the word. They are commandos (or more accurately shock troops). As for SEALs, they are the exact same thing as Army Special Forces except that they work for the Navy. Guess what, the Special Forces has dive teams. Please, please, please stop giving out information that is totally wrong. |
|
|
|
|
May 4 2009, 03:24 PM
Post
#15
|
|
|
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,192 Joined: 6-May 07 From: Texas - The RGV Member No.: 11,613 |
QUOTE (InfinityzeN @ May 4 2009, 08:07 AM) As for SEALs, they are the exact same thing as Army Special Forces except that they work for the Navy. I strongly suggest that you don't repeat this to your SOF cohorts, my friend. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) |
|
|
|
|
May 4 2009, 05:51 PM
Post
#16
|
|
|
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,537 Joined: 27-August 06 From: Albuquerque NM Member No.: 9,234 |
QUOTE (InfinityzeN @ May 4 2009, 09:07 AM) As for SEALs, they are the exact same thing as Army Special Forces except that they work for the Navy. Guess what, the Special Forces has dive teams. Please, please, please stop giving out information that is totally wrong. Um, so where in SEAL training do they do the whole Robin Sage bit? No, SEALs are pretty much trained as classic commandos. They, like much of SOCOM, get misused a lot. Which is why we have Marines doing their best to provide military training of the ANA while SF A teams are doing door kicking. |
|
|
|
|
May 4 2009, 06:31 PM
Post
#17
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 992 Joined: 23-December 08 From: the Tampa Sprawl Member No.: 16,707 |
Correct, MARSOC is the main standard military/irregular military training group in SOCOM at this time.
And you are also correct in that we at SOCOM are misused a lot. Our problem is that we are task organized down to regular military forces in theater. Since regular forces do not properly understand SOF missions, it is very common that SO Forces are tasked to do things outside of their mission range. The problem is that everyone thinks SOF does the stuff in movies. What SOF actually mostly does is training, recon, observation, and intelligence gathering (with some snatch/grab thrown in). QUOTE (psychophipps @ May 4 2009, 10:24 AM) I strongly suggest that you don't repeat this to your SOF cohorts, my friend. biggrin.gif That didn't come out exactly right. What I was trying to say is that SEALs fill much the same slot in the Navy that SF fills in the Army.SEALs actually do FSF training and that is part of their mission. In fact, if I remember my list properly, SEALs do everything SF does *except* standard military/irregular military training. Working for a 4 star Navy SEAL is... interesting. |
|
|
|
|
May 4 2009, 06:55 PM
Post
#18
|
|
|
Creating a god with his own hands Group: Members Posts: 1,405 Joined: 30-September 02 From: 0:0:0:0:0:0:0:1 Member No.: 3,364 |
ahhh joy. the eternal "who does what" debate. GWOT threw any semblance of task-specific units completely out the window. good thing there's a war on, or the bickering would probably ensure no work ever got done (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
the funny thing is, even Big Army is now encroaching on SF territory, what with the proliferation of Embedded Training Teams and Cav Scout squadrons. |
|
|
|
|
May 4 2009, 06:59 PM
Post
#19
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 166 Joined: 8-April 09 From: Columbus, Ohio, USA Member No.: 17,061 |
I put together a former Special Forces type. His "design" by the military was for demolitions, and they gave him Increased Bone Density and Orthoskin, as well as cyber eyes and ears. He can survive near misses, unless he is taking down a bridge or building. His skills are all in the moderate range, though. I account for this with the fact that he has a Criminal SIN, spent time in prison, and has been on probation for five years. He hasn't been practicing, has been distracted by other concerns, and only recently has gotten back into the game as a shadowrunner.
The reason why special forces types of any kind are special is because of their intense training. 400BP isn't enough to create an active Green Beret, but what if he left because of some Big Regret, or was falsely accused of a crime and now has a Criminal SIN. He spends time away from his work, and now money is tight, and someone found out what he used to do for a living. They recruit him for a shadowrunning team. He isn't as good as his reputation, which creates some opportunities for role playing, but at the very least, he knows he can get back to where he once was, so he still carries the confidence of a man on the rise. |
|
|
|
|
May 4 2009, 07:11 PM
Post
#20
|
|
|
Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,653 Joined: 22-January 08 Member No.: 15,430 |
QUOTE (psychophipps @ May 4 2009, 08:02 AM) This is one area where the RAW and the descriptors don't hash out too well and RAW for wounding and other negative modifiers fall flat, IMO. If 13 DP makes you a Tir Ghost/Delta Force at a given skill, why is it sooo daaamn eeaasy to make a 15+ DP in (insert just about any concept you want here) at character gen? Most military types work in a team. You really don't need 15 dice to shoot someone when you've got 4 buddies who have them caught in a crossfire. They're going to get shot. Streetsams, on the other hand, are largely solo operators. They might have other combat jocks on the team, but the way most teams are set up, the sammy needs to have what it takes to handle the combat specialty all on her own. Also, there's the fact that Ghosts are grunts. Basically, each one of them is nobody special. They're people who joined the special forces, got all that fancy training, and stuck with it. I'm not saying that ghosts couldn't be better than that, but you're never going to find a large group where every soldier is better than a Tir Ghost. The Ghosts might have super special solo operatives that are just as good as the best streetsams, but those rise to the level of Prime Runners, they're no longer grunts. By definition, a PC or Prime Runner is someone who's special, someone who might have exceptional abilities that are very rare and valuable. And by definition, grunts aren't that, even if they're part of one of the world's most elite units. |
|
|
|
|
May 4 2009, 08:01 PM
Post
#21
|
|
|
Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,168 Joined: 15-April 05 From: Helsinki, Finland Member No.: 7,337 |
Our team has an ex SPec. Ops fellow-some demolitions and long-range gunning. Well, he's more specialized, but he's really good at what he does.
My sam is the team's muscle and heavy-hitter; he is also ex spec. ops, but he's actually not quite as good with guns as the other gun specialist(he's an unarmed/blades style sam.) The guy in the book is a decent example of a sam, but I wouldn't call him special ops-good street guy, but not special ops(the sam I have would take him apart, but he was also built with 750 Karma. Hell, I built a 400 BP sam that could take him apart but that's neither here nor there. That's called ''gee, how insane can I make this?'' for fun. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) ) Also, in the teams Ive seen there is more than one combat jock. Oftentimes the sam doesn't have to handle it on his own. |
|
|
|
|
May 4 2009, 08:35 PM
Post
#22
|
|
|
Deus Absconditus Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,742 Joined: 1-September 03 From: Downtown Seattle, UCAS Member No.: 5,566 |
QUOTE (InfinityzeN @ May 4 2009, 10:31 AM) And you are also correct in that we at SOCOM are misused a lot. Our problem is that we are task organized down to regular military forces in theater. Since regular forces do not properly understand SOF missions, it is very common that SO Forces are tasked to do things outside of their mission range. The problem is that everyone thinks SOF does the stuff in movies. What SOF actually mostly does is training, recon, observation, and intelligence gathering (with some snatch/grab thrown in). This is why I am always amused when people question why my ex-SOF mercenary character has high skill ratings in Instruction, History, Stealth, Wilderness, and Influence. |
|
|
|
|
May 4 2009, 08:49 PM
Post
#23
|
|
|
Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,653 Joined: 22-January 08 Member No.: 15,430 |
QUOTE (ElFenrir @ May 4 2009, 04:01 PM) Also, in the teams Ive seen there is more than one combat jock. Oftentimes the sam doesn't have to handle it on his own. I don't mean it's always like that. But the mystique of the streetsam, at least, is that he can survive the mean streets on his own when he has to. |
|
|
|
|
May 4 2009, 09:41 PM
Post
#24
|
|
|
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,192 Joined: 6-May 07 From: Texas - The RGV Member No.: 11,613 |
QUOTE (Larme @ May 4 2009, 12:49 PM) I don't mean it's always like that. But the mystique of the streetsam, at least, is that he can survive the mean streets on his own when he has to. Of course, those aforementioned "Mean Streets" tends to max out at a 4 stat and a 3-4 skill total for about 99% of the situations you might get into. Just to keep things in the correct perspective. |
|
|
|
|
May 4 2009, 10:50 PM
Post
#25
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 704 Joined: 20-November 06 From: The seemingly unknown area of land between Seattle and Idaho. Member No.: 9,910 |
Wow. I didn't realize this was such a can of worms. I built this character trying to walk the line between a realistic team member and a cinematic special forces. I went with green beret because as far as I know their primary role is the training of indigenous peoples in unconventional warfare. This suited my concept of a face/soldier, and also makes allowance for a broad array of other skills. I like generalist characters. I like having a tool for almost every situation. I am not especially bothered by the fact that my dice pools are smaller. When a situation arises that requires more dice than I have, that is where edge and planning come in. I find a good plan and a flexible mind are far more deadly than a Panther XXL.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 18th May 2025 - 04:18 AM |
Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.