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#1
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 199 Joined: 16-September 03 From: Massachusetts Member No.: 5,625 ![]() |
Does anyone play anything other than an adept anymore? I look at all the character builds that people have been making, and they're ALL adepts. I'm not surprised, really, since they're very cheap for all the bonuses you get, but still. It's destroying my notion of magic being uncommon in the 6th world.
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#2
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Neophyte Runner ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 2,168 Joined: 15-April 05 From: Helsinki, Finland Member No.: 7,337 ![]() |
While I love adepts, and do have one floating around, if it's any consolation, my two main characters are both heavily cybered bruiser types.
Not even orks, either! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) One human guy and an elf guy(the latter is my main guy, so to speak.) Thing is, while they start a bit slower, they do eventually get frightening. Now, not even power-wise, adepts just have all of this cool, neat stuff they can do. Combat, social, athletic, technical, whatever. I suppose it's just the ''feel'' of them that gets people. |
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#3
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The ShadowComedian ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,538 Joined: 3-October 07 From: Hamburg, AGS Member No.: 13,525 ![]() |
Nah, Mundane Trolls is where the big Fun is at ^^
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#4
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Dragon ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 4,328 Joined: 28-November 05 From: Zuerich Member No.: 8,014 ![]() |
My current PnP group consists of two adepts and one mage. One of the adepts is a new character, and made as a result of the player's opinion (after years of playing a street samurai) that adepts offered more than sammies.
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#5
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Runner ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 3,009 Joined: 25-September 06 From: Paris, France Member No.: 9,466 ![]() |
Metal is better than Meat.
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#6
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Running Target ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,336 Joined: 25-February 08 From: San Mateo CA Member No.: 15,708 ![]() |
Heck, in my group they are mostly Technomancers. Nobody posts characters to DS because the recommendations here go counter to our playstyle.
BlueMax |
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#7
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The Dragon Never Sleeps ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Admin Posts: 6,924 Joined: 1-September 05 Member No.: 7,667 ![]() |
Does anyone play anything other than an adept anymore? I look at all the character builds that people have been making, and they're ALL adepts. I'm not surprised, really, since they're very cheap for all the bonuses you get, but still. It's destroying my notion of magic being uncommon in the 6th world. I like your sampling technique. |
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#8
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Shooting Target ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,653 Joined: 22-January 08 Member No.: 15,430 ![]() |
Does anyone play anything other than an adept anymore? I look at all the character builds that people have been making, and they're ALL adepts. I'm not surprised, really, since they're very cheap for all the bonuses you get, but still. It's destroying my notion of magic being uncommon in the 6th world. Adepts are just the more challenging and fun build. The 0-essence samurai has been done to death. The challenge is combining the sammy and the adept and coming up with something that's better than the sum of its parts. That said, adepts are not cheap, and their bonuses are not that overpowering compared to what you can get from cyber. Unless you're talking melee combat, in which case they can rock the socks of a mundane, but bringing a fist to a gunfight is still stupid, no matter if that fist sets things on fire or pours out toxic smoke when it punches people. Adepts are also the best throwers, but I really haven't seen too many throwing builds... As I see it, it's Light Side vs. Dark Side. Streetsams are the Dark Side, they're the quickest way to incredibly power. But someday the Adept, through cleverness and dedication, will advance to where he can defeat the streetsam... You'd just better hope the campaign isn't over already (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) |
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#9
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 574 Joined: 22-June 09 From: Ucluelet - Tofino - Nanaimo Salish-Sahide Council Member No.: 17,309 ![]() |
Er, did you see my thread asking for newbie advice? All I have to say in my defense at picking a Gunslinger Adept was liking action movies that seemed to feature characters that seemed they would be somewhat like that. If I didn't pick that example character to use as a template, I think I would find Drone Rigger very interesting but find myself intimidated by the digital world - and even though I find trying to understand magic even more intimidating, I don't view the Adept as magic per se, just an extention of fun point buy, kind like when I would make various characters with Fallout's (PC) S.P.E.C.I.A.L system, kinda like they are extra Positive Qualities, so I find it easier to understand to my newbie mind. Hmm, and if I didn't do Adept or Drone Rigger, I think I would do a weapon specialist, I just find cyberware and magic spells kinda creepy ... which I guess totally works for some people, some people probably find drones, remote hackers, and guys who like to shoot other people for a living creepy too.
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#10
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Target ![]() Group: Members Posts: 10 Joined: 16-January 09 From: California Member No.: 16,779 ![]() |
My players never really play adepts until one of them discovered the Gunslinger Adept. We usually get all kinds of street sammie characters or mercenaries.
Whenever I made npc characters for them to have the option to hire (to fill in gaps in the group), I would always play the Decker/Hacker, and had designed an Adept and a face that they never actually bothered taking with them, lol. |
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#11
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Shooting Target ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,653 Joined: 22-January 08 Member No.: 15,430 ![]() |
The thing about Shadowrun is that it's not just a cyberpunk game, it's also D&D and wire fu, all rolled into one. So we get a substantial number of people who don't have a cyberpunk mentality, who think that if cyberware was real, they wouldn't get it because it's just wrong or unnatural to replace your natural body with machinery. And like it or not, many people tend to play what they'd like to be, even versions of themselves projected into the SR universe, because that's all they know how to do. A person who doesn't believe in cybertech IRL is much more likely to be prejudiced against it ingame, hence the gravitation towards "pure" adepts and mages. The system punishes virtually any archetype that doesn't take some cyber (mages the least, though), but people persist in doing it because of their own RL opinions about cyberware.
Of course, for hardcore cyberpunk fans, cyber is the holy grail. Personally, I'd like to get my body removed and have one of those cyborg bodies from Ghost in the Shell (the military grade androids, not the little toaster on legs type (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) ). For me, cutting away flesh to install metal isn't just natural, it's preferred (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) But I don't even know if a majority of players appreciate cyberware to that degree. Like I said, Shadowrun encompasses multiple genres and thus pulls in diverse players, so it's understandable if many people shun the cyberpunk elements in favor of kung fu or D&D type stuff (i.e. adepts and mages, respectively). PS. Also, some of the anti-cyber mentality can be attributed to SR's messed up Archetypes system. We've always had Archetypes, and they've never meant squat because there are no classes. But somehow, they stick. Adepts aren't supposed to have cyberware because that's how the sample characters are, and for some reason this translates into people saying that playing a cybered adept somehow adulterates the archetype. Never mind that "archetype" is a meaningless concept--you gain no bonus for conforming to an archetype, and are often penalized because the sample characters are engineered to be middle of the road, not particularly good. |
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#12
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 292 Joined: 20-April 09 From: Sydney 'plex Member No.: 17,094 ![]() |
Imo folks don't tend to play magic characters with a lot of cyber because... it's "cheesy", and against the usual RP flavour of an awakened's background. Of course this doesn't preclude it rules wise. It's just that it comes across as a min/maxer approach. I have no problem with min/maxing, it's my default style when I play (although I find myself moving away from that style as I grow older). But a min/maxer needs to be mindful of the rest of the group. A rogue min/maxer will screw up game balance, and cause the GM to create opponents who are too deadly for half the party = no fun.
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#13
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The ShadowComedian ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,538 Joined: 3-October 07 From: Hamburg, AGS Member No.: 13,525 ![]() |
Which is why one should show the other players a trick or two, once the GM ain't looking any more ^^
In SR, you don't NEED to be the Weak-Ass-Mage. Be an Ork, or a TROLL-Physical Adept with Path of the Magician. You can brawl with the best and you can STILL sling some stylish(if useless) spells. |
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#14
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Shooting Target ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,894 Joined: 11-May 09 Member No.: 17,166 ![]() |
As I said elsewhere, I almost always take a little cyber unless even the IDEA would be anathema (Think Native American Souix Magician).
I have played just about everything in one of the editions of the game at one time or another, except a dedicated rigger. A samurai has a lot of advantages, especially early on: they are mostly financially limited. Karma's usually harder to come by than money, unless it's a SERIOUSLY gritty game. In Runner's Companion, Netcat earns 100,000Â¥ for retrieving a single computer file. Yes, it required a Resonance Realm Quest, but the Johnson didn't necessarily know that. They just knew what the file was worth to them. So as long as the money flows, they can focus on things like locating a Delta Clinic and upgrading themselves to the max. The only real downsides they have is that there is an absolute ceiling on their abilities (ESSence has to stay positive unless the GM is feeling a little nutz and is willing to allow a Cyberzombie PC), and that they tend to set off alarms everywhere, and the authorities are ALWAYS curious why they are built like the proverbial Main Battle Tank, what with that internal armor, bone reinforcement, internal weapons, air supplies, toxin antidotes, and on and on and on. Karma is a lot less limiting on them, and things like Skillwires can be a handy way to get around skill progression on skills that aren't "mission critical" but they'd still find handy to have. (Think the scene from the first X-Men movie, when Wolverine walks through the metal detector at the Statue of Liberty.) I don't think the CyberSammie is dead. I think they have a speciffic place, and if your party doesn't have that slot, you probably won't see her in your group. They are powerful and effective, and with a good WILlpower (and EVERY one should take Daredrenaline - look it up) can even stand up to a magician. The biggest limitation on the Adept is their relatively slow progression in power level. It will depend on what kind of campaign you're planning to run. Short term, the Adept looks a LOT less attractive. |
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#15
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Running Target ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,002 Joined: 22-April 06 From: Canada Member No.: 8,494 ![]() |
I almost never play Adepts. Don't get me wrong I like the idea of an adept assassin that can walk past cyberware scanners and then rip out a target's heart, but I love my Riggers a little too much. When ever I do play a magical character I tend to play a full Shaman. Just something about the NAN magic that calls to me the most of all the magical types (including adepts).
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#16
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The ShadowComedian ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,538 Joined: 3-October 07 From: Hamburg, AGS Member No.: 13,525 ![]() |
I just don't get along/can'T wrap my head around the concept/rules of magic. No, not even the simply Adept Stuff works for me in most cases <.<
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#17
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Shooting Target ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,894 Joined: 11-May 09 Member No.: 17,166 ![]() |
I almost never play Adepts. Don't get me wrong I like the idea of an adept assassin that can walk past cyberware scanners and then rip out a target's heart, but I love my Riggers a little too much. When ever I do play a magical character I tend to play a full Shaman. Just something about the NAN magic that calls to me the most of all the magical types (including adepts). I am ALWAYS delighted to leave the rigging to somebody who loves it and understands it in detail. I just don't get along/can'T wrap my head around the concept/rules of magic. No, not even the simply Adept Stuff works for me in most cases <.< And given what I have seen of you Stahl, and in combination with what I said above, I would be delighted to have your studly troll ass along if I need that kind of firepower. Again: leave the job o the actual specialists. If I have a tank that needs busting, or a cyberzombie that's getting my panties in a twist, I know who to call. *wink* |
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#18
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Shooting Target ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,849 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Melbourne, Australia Member No.: 872 ![]() |
This might be symptomatic of how long our campaigns often last, but I have two full magicians (one hermetic, one shaman), one mystic adept and that is it.
Nobody wants to go an adept. Despite their awesomeness, the karma hurdle is too much for too many players to get over. - J. |
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#19
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Shooting Target ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,911 Joined: 26-February 02 From: near Stuttgart Member No.: 1,749 ![]() |
A mystic adept is an adept, too. and he didn´t pointed out if he is just talking about physical adepts. So maybe he should come back and tell us what exactly he meant?^^
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#20
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Shooting Target ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,849 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Melbourne, Australia Member No.: 872 ![]() |
Technically, yes. In practise however its pretty much a mage - although it comes down to the build.
When the OP says "most builds" he means that most are using 'physical' adepts (skill/social/warrior/stealth/whatever). At least that was my reading. - J. |
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#21
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Shooting Target ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,911 Joined: 26-February 02 From: near Stuttgart Member No.: 1,749 ![]() |
Yeah, could be. But i also saw a lot of mystic-adept builds around, so i´m not completely sure. Why isn´t anybody using the "ki-ad" notion anymore? I was so pretty clear what was meant.^^ Is it the same thing that there are no otakus anymore and now only technomancers exist? I liked this notion.
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#22
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 250 Joined: 14-February 08 Member No.: 15,683 ![]() |
In the PbP game I just joined over on SA, I'm a relatively unaugmented mundane. One IP, not a whole lot of performance boosting cyber or anything. In fact, the best cyber I've got is Aluminum bone lacing. Keep in mind, the game premise is stolen from the 2nd Ed source book, Cyberpirates.
Note: there's a reason for the one IP thing. Character is a heavy weapons user, with a specialization in machineguns. Because who doesn't love horribly violent person/vehicle killing suppressive fire? |
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#23
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Running Target ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,162 Joined: 16-November 07 Member No.: 14,229 ![]() |
But i also saw a lot of mystic-adept builds around, so i´m not completely sure. I suspect Mystic Adept builds pop up a lot around here because they're a pain in the butt to get to the point where they feel effective. At least out of character creation. -paws |
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#24
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Shooting Target ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,911 Joined: 26-February 02 From: near Stuttgart Member No.: 1,749 ![]() |
Don´t be so cruel to the poor mystics. ^^ If you focus on one aspect, they ARE effective. Ok, you always lose one point of magic, but if you play them as mages, the BP´s are 5 points lower than for his counterpart and there are a lot of advantages you can gain from the adept powers. If you play him as an adept, you have access to counterspelling. I think they are worth the trouble and pretty effective.
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#25
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Running Target ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,162 Joined: 16-November 07 Member No.: 14,229 ![]() |
Don´t be so cruel to the poor mystics. ^^ If you focus on one aspect, they ARE effective. <snip> I think they are worth the trouble and pretty effective. Yes, they are. Well, they can be if you build them right, anyway. What I was trying to say is that people try to do too much with them at character creation. They spread themselves thin to the point of uselessness. -paws PS The Charisma-based Social Mystic Adept with Conjuring looks pretty tempting to me. |
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