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Stahlseele
post Jul 14 2009, 05:31 PM
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Will people stop bitching about this?
This has been done in how many threads now?
Agree to disagree and be done with it . .
Nobody seems to care that my Binky is a frigging Centaur with 6 Arms and -15 or so Essence . .
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Ragewind
post Jul 14 2009, 05:33 PM
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QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Jul 14 2009, 12:31 PM) *
Will people stop bitching about this?
This has been done in how many threads now?
Agree to disagree and be done with it . .
Nobody seems to care that my Binky is a frigging Centaur with 6 Arms and -15 or so Essence . .


I apologize but I don't actually know who Blinky is, I have however considered a Surged character with 6 arms and 6 ballistic shields....
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Neraph
post Jul 14 2009, 05:34 PM
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QUOTE (Ragewind @ Jul 14 2009, 12:33 PM) *
I apologize but I don't actually know who Blinky is, I have however considered a Surged character with 6 arms and 6 ballistic shields....

Reinforced and possessed shields!
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Dumori
post Jul 14 2009, 05:34 PM
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YOu just become the master of drones in you overly armored tank and kick ass.
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Ragewind
post Jul 14 2009, 05:34 PM
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QUOTE (Neraph @ Jul 14 2009, 12:34 PM) *
Reinforced and possessed shields!


EXACTLY!

EDIT: LAWL I just did some quick math

Assuming F6 Spirits we get

6 possessing spirits (x6!) = 72
6 Harden spells at F6 = 36
6 Ballistic Shields = 36

Total 144 Ballistic / 132 Impact

...LAWL this is just off of shields alone (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotate.gif)

Of course this would present a few movement problems, however you can run two of these shields (for a armor rating of 12 vs your body, the add-ons don't matter) and still move around, I think somewhere around 50 armor for two sheilds is worth it. Then again if you are rigging this will never be a problem.

EDIT 2: Lol don't forget Gel pack on the shields, for another 6/6, this is so easy!

EDIT 3: Six armed surged character with two uber shields and 4 full auto SMGS and Suppress the area x4, while having a huge armor pool to soak damage while you block a hallway....Dwarven Defender anyone?>
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Neraph
post Jul 14 2009, 05:42 PM
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Don't forget the Snake Mesh Socks, r6 Reinforced as well, for an additional 6/8 armor to attacks directed at your feet!

And f6 Reinforcing gel packs in your armor, assuming only 1 you can get an additional 7/7 armor.
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Neraph
post Jul 14 2009, 05:47 PM
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QUOTE (Ragewind @ Jul 14 2009, 12:34 PM) *
EDIT 3: Six armed surged character with two uber shields and 4 full auto SMGS and Suppress the area x4, while having a huge armor pool to soak damage while you block a hallway....Dwarven Defender anyone?>

NONE SHALL PASS!!
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cREbralFIX
post Jul 14 2009, 05:51 PM
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Wait! You mean there's heavier armor than an armored coat at 6/4? Sheesh...the GM has been holding out on us.
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Neraph
post Jul 14 2009, 05:56 PM
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So...

Full body replacement with armor modifications: 22/22
Total: 22/22

Dodge Guardian with Walker Mode/2 Arms and max vehicle armor: 16
Rigger coccoon (f6 Reinforced): 36
Total: 42

For the person
Full PPP (5 pieces): 2/6
r6 Reinforce for all 5: 30
FFBA shirt: 3/0
r6 Reinforce: 6
Armor Jacket: 8/6
r6 Reinforce: 6
Total: 55/54

6 possessing spirits (x6!) = 72
6 Harden spells at F6 = 36
6 Ballistic Shields = 36

Total: 144/132

1 f6 Reinforced gel pack: 7/7
Total: 7/7

f6 Reinforced Snake Mesh Socks: 6/8
Total: 6/8

Grand Total: 270/257 (276/265 for attacks against your feet)

Not bad.


EDIT: With a 16 point magical group contact (1 Connection/6 Loyalty [+1 District Wide, +4 Most Magical, +2 20-99 Members]), you can find about 50 people willing to cast and sustain the spells required for the above for you, so this can be done with a mundane character. You can even subtract the six spirits posessing the shields and still be left with 198(204)/185(193), which is more than enough.
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Mäx
post Jul 14 2009, 06:01 PM
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QUOTE (Neraph @ Jul 14 2009, 08:21 PM) *
Negative physical initiative, not matrix/astral initiative. He wouldn't be able to do anything in meatspace

Including putting on all that armor and getting into that vehicle.
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InfinityzeN
post Jul 14 2009, 06:05 PM
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That is why he puts on the jacket and FFBA shirt, gets in the vehicle and jacks in, then has drones put all the PPP and shields on him.

ARG, did I just help out this twink horror of a thread?
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Neraph
post Jul 14 2009, 06:06 PM
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QUOTE (Mäx @ Jul 14 2009, 01:01 PM) *
Including putting on all that armor and getting into that vehicle.

False. It goes something like this:

You sit on your couch, get comfortable, go VR, have some Renraku Manservant III drones put your armor on and load you into the car, then go to town, still in VR. You don't have to put a single piece on.
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Neraph
post Jul 14 2009, 06:07 PM
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QUOTE (InfinityzeN @ Jul 14 2009, 01:05 PM) *
That is why he puts on the jacket and FFBA shirt, gets in the vehicle and jacks in, then has drones put all the PPP and shields on him.

ARG, did I just help out this twink horror of a thread?

In all fairness, I said that on the original thread when the same guy made the same arguement. Seems he forgot about it.
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Stingray
post Jul 14 2009, 06:15 PM
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QUOTE (McAllister @ Jul 14 2009, 07:31 PM) *
Guys... I can't believe you seem to have overlooked military-grade armour. For a mere 30,000 (plus Restricted Gear), you get 18/16 armour with buckets of capacity for add-ons (including the potential to have the incredibly useful chemical seal), an upgradable military-grade commlink and other built-in goodness. And there's no penalty, because, being custom-fitted, it uses BODx3 for encumbrance.

Other than that, the metagenetic dermal deposits aren't a bad idea for 5BP (and a minor metagenetic flaw), or you could slap on something like orthoskin 3. Honestly, for a human, 22/20 is probably plenty.

The other fun thing to do would be to go around on a Horseman Personal Mobility Vehicle with 8 Smart armour and the Reflective Hull upgrade (so lasers and gauss weapons don't halve your sweet, sweet armour) and throw on another 10 Personal Armour (which is used when people try to shoot at you through the vehicle), so enemies either have to deal with 18 additional armour (plus your own... we're up to 40, yes?) or take out the vehicle first.

Buying Military Grade armor and It's Helmet.. ok, now i want to upgrade Response and Signal to 6 (8500yen) (Arsenal p. 51)
Do i have to get 2 more Restricted Item quality to get them (both have Availibility 16) (BBB 240) or just buy them
by paying 17k (2x8500 yen) more??
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Mäx
post Jul 14 2009, 06:21 PM
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QUOTE (Neraph @ Jul 14 2009, 09:07 PM) *
In all fairness, I said that on the original thread when the same guy made the same arguement. Seems he forgot about it.

I never posted in that BS thread.
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Neraph
post Jul 14 2009, 06:22 PM
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QUOTE (Stingray @ Jul 14 2009, 01:15 PM) *
Buying Military Grade armor and It's Helmet.. ok, now i want to upgrade Response and Signal to 6 (8500yen) (Arsenal p. 51)
Do i have to get 2 more Restricted Item quality to get them (both have Availibility 16) (BBB 240) or just buy them
by paying 17k (2x8500 yen) more??

Military armor is NOT GOOD because you can't get PPP and FFBA with it. you end up with lower possibilities with it. For example: you get Heavy Milspec, but it only has 20 capacity for armor enhancements. On the other hand, you get an armor vest with full PPP and full-body FFBA, you have 2 less armor (for both ballistic and impact), it takes slightly more encumberance, but you have a lot more room for enhancements (the FFBA and the vest alone give you a lot, much less every piece of PPP). And you also have more room for Reinforce spells with FFBA+PPP+Vest. A potential extra 42 mroe points of armor.
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the_real_elwood
post Jul 14 2009, 06:27 PM
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This is why Shadowrun needs the APCA creation rules from CP2020, so you can REALLY tweak out that milspec armor.

And while I don't know the RAW, I think the interpretation of gelpacks and reinforce spells stacking between individual pieces of armor is disingenuous at best. But if you're going that direction, why not just rule that you can apply reinforce spells to all the different components of the milspec armor.
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Riki
post Jul 14 2009, 06:28 PM
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Any retard can go into battle with armor, takes a real man to go into battle fully naked, with the biggest gun he can find =P
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Neraph
post Jul 14 2009, 06:37 PM
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QUOTE (the_real_elwood @ Jul 14 2009, 01:27 PM) *
This is why Shadowrun needs the APCA creation rules from CP2020, so you can REALLY tweak out that milspec armor.

And while I don't know the RAW, I think the interpretation of gelpacks and reinforce spells stacking between individual pieces of armor is disingenuous at best. But if you're going that direction, why not just rule that you can apply reinforce spells to all the different components of the milspec armor.

Because for the purposes of the game, Milspec Armor is one piece of armor. Now, technically, you can Reinforce the same armor over and over again, as SR has no spell-stacking rules, unlike D&D. To that effect, you could simply cast the armor spell (or have it cast on you) on yourself 15 times.

But most people would like to see one effect per item.

The RAW about gel packs and Reinforce spells is thus: (suggested) one Gel Pack upgrade per piece of armor, and Reinforce spells just add armor. The armor is added to the item, and you get the item's armor, thus you get the Reinforce spell.
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Neraph
post Jul 14 2009, 06:40 PM
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QUOTE (Mäx @ Jul 14 2009, 01:21 PM) *
I never posted in that BS thread.

Then I apologize, I'm probably thinking of Tarantula making the same arguements. That is no excuse for not adding any constructive criticism to the thread at all, however. The only posts you have made have been negative against myself and Ragewind, and have involved profanity (either implied or actually used), which is simply poor sport. I suggest either not reading this thread if it bothers you so much, cleaning up your language and using actual debate tactics (such as: you can't do this because of that rule [and list them]), or actually add something constructive to this thread.
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Stingray
post Jul 14 2009, 06:47 PM
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QUOTE (Neraph @ Jul 14 2009, 09:22 PM) *
Military armor is NOT GOOD because you can't get PPP and FFBA with it. you end up with lower possibilities with it. For example: you get Heavy Milspec, but it only has 20 capacity for armor enhancements. On the other hand, you get an armor vest with full PPP and full-body FFBA, you have 2 less armor (for both ballistic and impact), it takes slightly more encumberance, but you have a lot more room for enhancements (the FFBA and the vest alone give you a lot, much less every piece of PPP). And you also have more room for Reinforce spells with FFBA+PPP+Vest. A potential extra 42 mroe points of armor.

...milspec armor give 24 enchantment points (1,5x16) and helmet 3 enchantment points (1,5x2), no other
armor can give that opportunity.. i thought that if wearing 2 pieces of armor and enchant 1 to max
other piece's could not be enchanted (no stacking??)
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Neraph
post Jul 14 2009, 06:48 PM
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QUOTE (Stingray @ Jul 14 2009, 01:47 PM) *
...milspec armor give 24 enchantment points (1,5x16) and helmet 3 enchantment points (1,5x2), no other
armor can give that opportunity.. i thought that if wearing 2 pieces of armor and enchant 1 to max
other piece's could not be enchanted (no stacking??)

Incorrect. The capacity of the armor superceeds the enhancement rules. This is actually nicer, as you can more easily get r6 all armor enhancements. The main attraction of Milspec are the milspec only armor systems, so why waste those possibilities on other armor?

Also, there is no ruling against stacking spells in the game. You can also wear multiple Nonconductivity (just supposing), although only the highest amount counts.
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Mäx
post Jul 14 2009, 06:54 PM
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QUOTE (Neraph @ Jul 14 2009, 09:40 PM) *
Then I apologize, I'm probably thinking of Tarantula making the same arguements. That is no excuse for not adding any constructive criticism to the thread at all, however. The only posts you have made have been negative against myself and Ragewind, and have involved profanity (either implied or actually used), which is simply poor sport. I suggest either not reading this thread if it bothers you so much, cleaning up your language and using actual debate tactics (such as: you can't do this because of that rule [and list them]), or actually add something constructive to this thread.

And suggest that you actually read this read, i have made 9 posts in this thread and only three of them include negativitivity agains that thread.
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Neraph
post Jul 14 2009, 06:55 PM
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Allright sir, I apologize for missing your name. I only noticed it when you started becoming unneccessarily negative.
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Stingray
post Jul 14 2009, 07:01 PM
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QUOTE (Neraph @ Jul 14 2009, 09:48 PM) *
Incorrect. The capacity of the armor superceeds the enhancement rules. This is actually nicer, as you can more easily get r6 all armor enhancements. The main attraction of Milspec are the milspec only armor systems, so why waste those possibilities on other armor?

Also, there is no ruling against stacking spells in the game. You can also wear multiple Nonconductivity (just supposing), although only the highest amount counts.

so,, i i buy Leather Jacket (2/2) and enchant 3 points of Insulation, then later i buy FFBA (Half-body) (4/1) and
enchant it 3 points of Fire Resistance and 3 points of Chemical Protection and wear them both together
Do i get all 9 points of armor enchantments?
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