Those add-ons are AS Accessories not modifications (no skill needed=accessories=Legal RAW)
From Arsenal (p.153) "an Underbarrel weight at the end
of the barrel helps control the recoil, providing 1 point of recoil compensation" no mention of
Full Bursts (cost of 25 yen p. 151, Arsenal), other Underbarrel weight accessory cost 75 yen,mount:under (page 34, Arsenal)
and that underbarrel weight is the item you pointing at..

I'm totally with you on the p93. 5 "shots" of supressive fire makes that one painful area denial weapon. Also, since you're getting your RC from non-gas vent sources, you don't have to worry about that pesky gas-vent/sound supressor incompatibility.

The HK gun IS nice... if you can afford the extra restricted gear at character creation. The fact that it can't be modified is kind of a pain, though.

Consider a machine pistol. A third, smaller, weapon is handy for "New York reloads"(pull another gun), those situations where you need to conceal your guns, or for handoff to a willing extraction target/disarmed teammate/etc. For extra security, you can load it with nonlethal ammo and have the gun rigged to explode on command. (DO have the skinlink override this ability until you hand it off, though. Wouldn't want the gun to explode in your pocket due to an enemy hacker.)

With an 8 agility, I agree, you should be able to pick up 1 or 1[3] in a secondary weapon for added versatility. My choice would be heavy weapons for yer grenade launcher or throwing weapons for grenades and improvised projectiles.

Stingray, can you give a quote that says Electronic Firing is available as an accessory? That logically(gasp!) would require messing around with the INSIDE of the gun to make it work.


EDIT:spelling.

ok. look at Arsenal, p 149 table,Electronic Firing have no mention of Special Skills, now look at p. 148
MODIFICATIONS vs. Accssories " The difference between two of them is that accessories can be installed without
requiring extensive mechanical knowledge (=Special Skill)(remember not mentioned w/electronic firing ->making it Accessory)
while modifcations require an application of the modification rules mentioned at..."

Aah, I see where you're coming from, and I have to respectfully disagree with your interpretation of the text. The relevant part is:

The fact that some mods require an extra skill (apart from Armorer, which is required for all weapon modifications) is irrelavant to whether or not the modification in question is available as an accessory.

The modifications that are available as firearm accessories are also listed in the firearms accessories section of Arsenal or in the BBB.

An example of this is the Underbarrel weight that you referenced in one of your earlier posts. which is listed under "recoil compensators" on p. 35 of Arsenal. If the electronic firing mechanism was similarly available as an accessory, it would ALSO be listed in that section of the book. Since the electronic firing mechanism is not mentioned anywhere else in the rules besides the weapon modifications section of Arsenal, I am forced to conclude that it is ONLY available as a weapon modification.

Those that your pointing at are modifications that urban combat can't have.
Modifications can't be had as accessories, except for those that are listed as accessories in the BBB or Arsenal(and yeas some of them have different rules as accessories then as modifications)

Damn douple post.

..ok..what about Supermach 100 (can not mount barrel or under- barrel accessories.
add Internal Smartgun system, Internal Sound suppressor (Modification), Firing Selection change (add BF-mode)
Personalized grip,Electronic Firing, Chameleon Coating and skinlink..
no barrel or under- barrel accessories were used..

Pretty nice, but Personalized grip and Electronic Firing don't stack.

ok..still 4(5) RC is pretty good, if optional rule STR->rc is allowed.. 1 or more RC..
or just Ares Alpha w/sound suppressor,Personalized Grip and Underbarrel weight and Barrel Reduction..

Wow. I'm seeing a LOT of replies to the IC with stuff about "how to get more IPs" and "the best equipment to use", but not very much on actual tactics.

So, assuming that the Character in question will actually be sticking to the GM-Mandated x2IPs (no more), and has already decided on equipment, I'm going to suggest a few actual tactics to help maximize his effectiveness.

1. If you expect to engage opponents that will have more IPs than you, I would always spend my 2nd pass on Full Defense in addition to making sure that I have ample cover. Heck, depending upon how your team is outfitted, you might even consider using your first SA to fire a Short/Long Burst at a target and use your 2nd SA to launch something like a Flash Grenade (Arsenal, pgs 36-37) into whatever baddies are left.

2. If you and your teammates can see in the dark (low-light, thermo, etc.) but your opposition cannot, use whatever means you can to "turn off the lights", or have your Team Hacker do it. More penalties for the badguys means you are less likely to get shot, especially if they have more IPs than you do.

To me, it seems like the most important thing to do when dealing with opponents that have more IPs than you is to do everything in your power to make it as hard as possible for them to hit you. Being on Full Defense from your Second pass in one Round all the way until your first pass in the next Round will go a long way towards keeping you alive.

I'll post more when I have more time.

"Turn off the lights" is my mantra, but "Turn off the lights" means not being able to locate me. There's been a few changes in situation.

In an indoor environment I will be wearing a chameleon suit with thermal dampening and carrying two weapons, both with chameleon coating and built in silencers/suppressors. One weapon is a sporting rifle classification, but with assault rifle equivalent stats sans automatic firing modes. The other will be a P93 or Ares Alpha depending on my expectation of resistance. Someone will need to be seeing in ultrasound to mitigate any visual penalties I impose on them.

I like the full defense idea, but it may be relatively pointless if the bonus IP is granted just to PCs and not NPCs, which I suspect may be the case. I doubt that at 2 IPs it would be rare to face NPCs that exceed our base of 2 IPs.

We're looking to getting a Tac-soft to use. If the GM allows me to use my Leadership (2) with Tactics specialization to grant bonuses (beyond the tacsoft bonuses) to my team mates as perhaps a complex action, I may do that for one IP as well.

Gotcha. 'Lights-out' prob won't be necessary for you then.




Actually, its even better if you have 2 IPs and most of your opponents only have 1. Assuming you go before them, spend your first pass on going Full Def. Then your opponents will spend their one and only IP in a futile attempt at shooting you. Then on your second pass, you shoot them. This really only works well if you are reasonably assured of going ahead of your opponents in initiative, and if they do not have 2 or more IPs.




That will be really great if you can remain hidden for at least the first Initiative Pass.

I didn't think about that, but that's a tactic for if/when I got spotted.




It's not just great, it's perfect, since that gives me one turn to study opponents to get my Synch combat bonus. The hidden part shouldn't be difficult, 5 Infiltration + 8 Agility. With a -4 for my opponents to see me normally, -6 via thermal. That's going to severely reduce most NPCs pools, and that's not including any other miscellaneous penalties that they may receive. 3-4 Perception against my 13 infiltration is probably how things will look many times, and some NPCs may very well be reduced to 1-2, if not 0.

This tactic even works if you're slower than the opposition. Full Defense can also be used as an interrupt action. As such it can be used anytime consuming the character's next available complex action.

StealthSigma, how DO you handle it when you eventually come up against someone who's "seeing" with ultrasound? As far as I can tell, ruthenium polymers and thermal damping wouldn't help, and smoke/glare/darkness would give more than a -3 penalty. Is a just a matter of having better AGI+infiltration than they do INT+perception?

Sound-absorving material?
Just put a lot of egg boxes on your chameleon suit (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif)

I don't know of any way to fool ultrasound, I've looked, aside from putting an object between you and them. Maybe flashbangs would cause enough disorientation to foul up their senses. My guess is the best way to deal with ultrasound is to appear as another object or just avoid it. For example, in a wax museum, stand by the wax statues and remain motionless.

Sound absorbing and wave negating would be bad tactics to use only because while they won't know where you are, they know you are there based on the sound received by other objects in the vicinity. Like if you are 3 meters from a wall and you're wearing an absorbing/negating method, the Ultrasound user won't see you, but they will see a wall, then a gap, then another wall. They know you're there, just not specifically where. The only way that I can think of to fool ultrasound would be a method similar to ruthenium, where sound waves are received and then spat out the other side at the appropriate strength.

The other tactics are avoiding opposition with ultrasound sensors, which is not always possible and shooting first.

There could also be ultrasound emitters similar to flashpacks.

Apparently no one found my joke funny (you guys have no sense of humer... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sleepy.gif) ) but it has some truth to it. Just like with Stealth bombers (who use "weird" geometric design together with radar-absorbing material) you could have sound-absorbing material added to your armor. While the materials would be different, the physical principle is the same. Perhaps you have a coat of spongous material or something that absorbs the sound (total or partially) emitted to you, that makes your "sound signature" weaker.
This is, aside with pressure plates, the only way to keep you virtually undetectable.

Not really...or at least it doesn't work for more than one Round.

The point of my tactic is that you are on full def for the entire time that the badguys are shooting at you, but they are all out of actions when you shoot at them.

If they have more IPs than you do, and you have to keep borrowing your next action to go full def, then they will keep shooting and you will keep dodging but you will never have a chance to shoot back.

Now, if you aren't truly outnumbered, you can always go full def for your first pass, then delay you second pass until after everyone else has gone, and THEN shoot.

I don't have my book with me to make sure that's legal, but if it is, it's a good plan for dealing with multiple IP opponents.

That wouldn't work because you'd end up as a hole in space. "Stealth" RADAR evasion works because the radio signal is expected to never reflect back if it is fired into an empty sky. If someone is using ultrasound, and their system shows an infinite hole in reality just in front of them, the operator will know that a problem of some sort exists.

That wouldn't work because you'd end up as a hole in space. "Stealth" RADAR evasion works because the radio signal is expected to never reflect back if it is fired into an empty sky. If someone is using ultrasound, and their system shows an infinite hole in reality just in front of them, the operator will know that a problem of some sort exists.

Ok, it might not work indoors, but on open field, why not? I'm AFB but I don't think that ultra-sound vision has "horizon" as LoS limitator and must have a shorter range that it works properly.
Also, radar absorbing material does not make you inivisible to radars, just reduces your signature to something as small as a vulture. The sound analogous wouldn't make a "black hole", it would just reduce your signature to the size of a cat or smaller.

Right, but you can calculate distance based on the strength of the returning wave signal. Anti-radar materials deflect waves in a way that doesn't reflect it back at the station, or reduces your cross-section so that radar can't track you. Reducing your profile size to that of a vulture will draw some WTF glances because birds don't fly that high. Ultrasound has very good resolutions as well, so at shorter distances you would look like an anomaly, not a cat.