Yes. Thank you for taking time to answer or questions, Adam.

It is appreciated.

I like watching them stumble off and puke, so I'm OK with that. Sorry.

Agreed. Thank you for continuing to keep in touch with the fanbase, Adam. I know how busy things must be for everyone at CGL, given the amount of product vs. the size of the company.

That being said, though, I am still somewhat unsatisfied with the resolution on this. I didn't realize that CGL's policy was that if we wanted to be sure we would receive the books near the street date, we should order through a local gaming store, rather than directly from CGL. That flies in the face of common sense, and isn't a thought that would normally occur to me.

Given that we paid for these pre-orders, including S&H, months ago, a response of "oops, it was the printers' fault" doesn't do much to quell frustration at the fact that we could have had them earlier and cheaper by walking into a brick-and-mortar store, rather than ordering from the publisher.

Again, I don't want to sound like I'm hating on CGL. I think they've done great things with SR and I think they'll do more in the future. I'm just venting, and should be largely ignored.

I totally agree that this is a Not Cool situation, and we've already talked about it amongst ourselves at Ge Con and will be doing so more during the coming weeks. And as a matter of fact, I'm off to do just that. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I like the capitalization there, Adam. Found it entertaining, for some reason.

And again, thanks for all the hard work, and for an excellent product.

I could swear I saw Seattle 2072 sitting on the table for sale at Gencon... what's the point of a pre-order?

I picked up my copies of Eclipse Phase (pretty good reading so far), SR4A, Seattle 2072, Running Wild, Dusk, a Doc Wagon Patch, the Blue Dice (missed the Ares ones though (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif) ), and even got an Ares T-Shirt (there were a lot). I also picked up Deus Ex, Paranoia Black Missions, For Eyes for Delta Green, Judge Dredd for Traveller, a set of All Squirrels Must Be Eaten (and dice), and three CthulhuTech books. I also have several new boxes of dice from Chessex. And a bunch of Cthulhu stickers and such for my bike.

Seattle 2072 had a printer error and one of the pages was blank. At Jennifer's suggestion, I took advantage of that and got autographs from Jennifer, Adam, a note from Rob and Steve (thanks Adam). And Rob signed my Eclipse Phase book. Thanks all for indulging in the fans and thanks for letting me help a little (and for the cookie _and_ genuine thank you handshake).

Most of the stash gets shipped home from my brother's place but EP and 2072 are continuing the ride with me. Don't want to chance losing them in shipping (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Thanks guys for taking the time to sign the books. Looking forward to 20 more years (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) This time I'll be more active though.

Carl

We flew over a limited number of copies for the show; the rest won't street for awhile, so Seattle 2072 will go through the normal pre-order cycle for those who didn't get a copy at GenCon.

It is the lack of prior notification that bugs me more than anything. I understand small companies have little pull to get things early and they also have limited staff. Usually this is made up via customer service and trying to make sure their customers are informed. It leaves a bad taste in the mouth to actually support a company and then feel one is screwed on the FLGS competition, the arrival date, and the cost. I feel I was let down and will probably not preorder any further books because of this.

This is absolutely something that will be discussed internally. I'm sorry that this situation has soured you, but if your local game store provides better service than us, then you absolutely should support them -- we have no hard feelings about people supporting their local stores! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I don't post here too often, but after reading through the thread, I thought I'd chime in.

I didn't except to get my SR4A order prior to street date. I figured it would ship on the street date and I'd have it in my hands a few days later. So, yes, I'm bummed that the soonest it will be shipping is a week later.

There are two real sticking points for me: (1) I ordered directly from where the Shadowrun website pointed me (battlecorps.com) and (2) I paid for the good long in advance. I would think there would be some priority to fulfilling my order.

But, I can appreciate the circumstances and will hold judgment until the transaction is finally fulfilled. Companies make mistakes, what will really determine my future relationship is how they handle the mistake. It seems CGL has learned from the situation so future customers won't have to go through this, this is good. But what I'm really interested in is if any reciprocity is given to those customers who had to live through the mistake. Even a small gesture goes a long way.

Fortunately, I still anticipate the arrival of my order and am hopeful everything works out for the best. Keep your chin up, chummer!



OK, where can I get one of these?

I'd like to chime in and offer a suggestion on how the consumer can be compensated for this mishap.

Perhaps a refund of the 16.00 shipping cost would be a nice for those who orderd the book through Battlecorps, but will be getting the book later then those who did attend GenCon or purchased the product through a local game store.

Just throw some of the leftover schwag from GenCon (a patch or something) in my box when you ship it, and I will be more than happy, chummer.

I hate to let the side down, but my copies have just arrived (pre-ordered, but from a shop) and I find any annoyance I had is entirely dissipated in the sheer glossiness of the book. I find it impossible to maintain my irritation now that I have it! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

This is not meant to be a put down for those that are still waiting. I'm just musing on how happy I am now that I've finally got it. I shall probably strike dead the first player that reaches for it with grubby unwashed hands, however. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

K.

Sure sure just keep rubbing that old salt into the wound.....I hardly notice anymore.

Seriously though gratz to those to who have this and the books from Gen Con. Looking forward to all the good stuff we have coming.

That, or perhaps bump up the shipping method to overnight/next day to decrease the lag time any further.

Just a thought.

I hope my copy materializes soon so I can participate in the happy-gushy.

I tell you what, guys. If there's still a "error" copy of Seattle 2072 laying around, let me pay you to put it in the box with the rulebook? I'd call that more than even and go so ar as to call it outstanding.

Send me a PM if that works and I'll happily give you my credstick information.

Another option would be to let me buy the PDF early if you are really out of the book.

I don't know what the profit margins are on SR4A, but I wouldn't be surprised if you'd just asked Catalyst to pay so that you could have your copy of the book.

It's regrettable that this situation has come about (I've only just got my copies today), but I think some people in this thread (not just you, Sincere), have some pretty optimistic ideas of compensation!

K.

I hold that the transaction isn't complete and so there is nothing yet to value against compensation. However, assuming the books arrive in September, what compensation if any would you deem appropriate Knasser?

Asking just to ask, if it offends anyone ignore me.

BlueMax

I don't know. I was just pointing out to the poster that asked for them to pay $16 to compensate him, that he may be effectively asking them to lose money on selling him the book. If someone considers that fair in return for the delays, then that's an opinion as much as someone who thinks it isn't. I just thought that the suggestion might have been born out of not considering what it actually meant in financial terms.

There's probably not a great deal that can be done. I doubt any compensation that was feasible would be sufficient to redress any inconvenience caused by the delay of the book. And if the issue is not inconvenience but an irritation or feeling of injustice, then I can only hope that sincere apologies for what has happened are sufficient. I'm not trying to speak for anyone else. I'm just saying where I'm coming from is that any likely form of compensation would be a negative impact on Catalyst, nothing of great benefit to me, so the only real positive outcome to look for is genuine sorries from those responsible (which were given) and efforts to avoid this circumstance re-occuring (which has been promised). If they have a load of DocWagon patches lying around and want to throw one in the envelope to make amends, then I think that would be great (speaking as someone who ordered from a store so wouldn't get one anyway), but I'm not sure what can really be expected. The only thing that would (and did) resolve this issue for me, was getting the book. That was what I wanted and nothing else would impact on my satisfaction / dissatisfaction other than that.

I'm not moralising - I'm just answering the question as best I can about how I would feel on the matter. I ordered from a shop, so I have no especial right to comment on this. And even if I did pre-order directly from them, my opinion would still only be valid for me and my circumstances.

Peace,

K.

Knasser,
As usual, awesome post.

BlueMax

Considering we buy preorders at roughly MSRP rather than at cost I don't think CGL is losing much money by refunding shipping or some sort of "compensation". Truthfully, the money is irrelevant the issue is more principle rather than about actual value. I am miffed because when I ordered I bought the PDF, the LE and the normal version, with the understanding they would be shipped on or before release date. The LE has been delayed which has delayed my entire order. Even if they did ship out the normal and LE in two separate boxes it is the fact I was not notified of the delay until days after it was supposed to have been shipped.

The entire experience left a bad taste in my mouth about preordering. I pay more than I would buying locally or over the internet from an unaffiliated company. One can always download the pdf via torrents. However, CGL is a small company that produces good products and it was my hope my patronage would warrant notification of any problems with my order as soon as they found out there would be a problem.

That said I will sit through the preorder of running wild, which I purchased before this incident. I just don't think I will preorder again because of this incident.

I, like you, ordered the full-up package. And also like you, as I wrote above, I am dissapointed about the (admitted, by CGL up to Adam) problems with my order. I have expressed that I hope they learn from the experience, and from what I have seen so far, I think they have. I have no plans to stop pre-ordering my products direct from CGL at this time unless and until the problem repeats itself as a patern which I do not expect to occur.

Let us take a moment to just remember that these are the same people who rescued at least one (and for many of us, TWO) beloved legacy product from the ashbin of gaming history and have brought them back to their former glory at the forefront of the industry, with product quality that matches or surpasses that of the so-called big-boys of the industry, and their attention to their fan-base in general as avidenced by even their prompt responses to these threads puts money-gins like the Coastal Wizards to abject shame.

Let's all agree to be righteously torqued off about the SR4A pre-order situation, but reserve judgment for after they have a chance to demonstrate their commitment to us and their ability to learn from their mistakes. Heck, they might just give us back our shipping after all, or overnight the boxes, or do something for us that will knock our socks right off.

Guess I'm easy. Distapointed at not having my book? Yup. Distapointed at CGL?Not really. As a business owner I know that sometimes drek happens that is outside of your control, so you just batten down the hatches and get on with gettin' on.

The impact of this on my life is minimal. I love shadowrun and am impressed with what I have seen so far. But not having the SR4A in front of me is no biggie.

I like the products. I will continue to buy the products. and I will continue to pre-order. Just my two cents. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotate.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotate.gif)

Cool. I just don't want the folks at CGL feeling like our support is waning or that we're a bunch of fickle gamers. Without them, we're back to playing an out-of-print Fading game.