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deek
post Aug 19 2009, 04:54 PM
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I've got a short list that I use:

Movement
+ I have set all movement rates to be evenly divisible by 4. We always have 4 IPs and everything is allowed to move on all 4 passes.
+ I've set 1 meter = 4 feet = 1 hex. Just makes everyone's life easier when tactics come into play.

Training
+ Created some complimentary rules that fill in the gaps on training. Stuff like, how to find a trainer, how much they cost, made instruction tests worth something (RAW is very weak)...
+ Limit simultaneous training of skills by Logic

Addictions
+ No negative qualities allowed.
+ Created a stair-step system that allows players to gain/remove addictions over time.
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Shinxy
post Aug 19 2009, 04:56 PM
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Since I didn't like how easy and reality-breaking it was to dodge bullets under RAW, I changed ranged combat to a threshold-based success test system based on range. A lot of the modifiers to defense were changed to be modifiers to the attacker's dice pool instead.

I also didn't like how fluffy IC and Spiders detecting hackers was (basically, GM decides entirely when a IC program or Spider might happen to wander by and detect the player), so I switched to Security Tallies.

350 BP character creation has turned out to be a godsend, much closer to the kind of game I want to run. GMs having problems with power players run wild are encouraged to try it.
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Shinxy
post Aug 19 2009, 04:58 PM
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QUOTE (deek @ Aug 19 2009, 12:54 PM) *
I've got a short list that I use:

Movement
+ I have set all movement rates to be evenly divisible by 4. We always have 4 IPs and everything is allowed to move on all 4 passes.
+ I've set 1 meter = 4 feet = 1 hex. Just makes everyone's life easier when tactics come into play.

Training
+ Created some complimentary rules that fill in the gaps on training. Stuff like, how to find a trainer, how much they cost, made instruction tests worth something (RAW is very weak)...
+ Limit simultaneous training of skills by Logic

Addictions
+ No negative qualities allowed.
+ Created a stair-step system that allows players to gain/remove addictions over time.


Could you elaborate on... well, all of these. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Especially would like to know what you came up with for addictions.
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Warlordtheft
post Aug 19 2009, 05:04 PM
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1. Using logic+hacking (limit # of hits= to program rating for the hacking rules)
2. Armor degrades by 1 ballistic, 1 impact every time the PC takes damage.
3. In certain situations, edge cannot be used to escape death.
4. During course of a session, if a question of rules comes up-fudge it and look it up later. More than likely the extra dice would not have made a significant difference.
5. Ettiquette helps in dealing with contacts.
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deek
post Aug 19 2009, 05:07 PM
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QUOTE (Shinxy @ Aug 19 2009, 12:58 PM) *
Could you elaborate on... well, all of these. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Especially would like to know what you came up with for addictions.


Sure. I'll put it in a spoiler.

deek’s SR4 House Rules
[ Spoiler ]
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Shinxy
post Aug 19 2009, 05:32 PM
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I really like those addiction rules. My players right now seem to regard addiction qualities as a free BP giveaway... which pisses me off (especially since I used to work as a residential counselor in recovery programs).

So by not allowing addiction as a negative quality, do you play where all your characters start out clean and acquire their addictions in-game?

Also could you explain your system with the IPs? Is it that everyone gets to move in all IPs, but are only allowed to ACT in certain ones?
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deek
post Aug 21 2009, 04:53 PM
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QUOTE (Shinxy @ Aug 19 2009, 12:32 PM) *
I really like those addiction rules. My players right now seem to regard addiction qualities as a free BP giveaway... which pisses me off (especially since I used to work as a residential counselor in recovery programs).

So by not allowing addiction as a negative quality, do you play where all your characters start out clean and acquire their addictions in-game?

Also could you explain your system with the IPs? Is it that everyone gets to move in all IPs, but are only allowed to ACT in certain ones?

Its up to the players, with regards to addictions. While my players role play quite a bit, no one would take a negative if there wasn't some benefit. So while I allow them to start with addictions at the level they may choose in my house rules, no one ever has, so yeah, everyone is pretty clean at the start of any campaign. And seeing that alcohol, based on these rules, is very hard to get addicted to (they would have to fail that addiction test three consecutive times before getting a mild addiction), it still allows players to drink a lot without to much fear of addiciton.

As to the IPs, yeah, its just that. Every combat turn is divided into 4 IPs. So, we are going to cycle through 4 IPs every single time. But, if they can only ACT in 3 IPs (which is normal for my players), then the final IP is movement only. They have no actions, so they can't run from a walk (which is a free action) or sprint. They just continue the mode of movement they were previously in, or stop.

So, a mook with only 1 IP, acts in the first, but can still move, take cover, etc in the other 3 passes. It works fairly well. There have been a couple times when a player has run up on a mook, shoot him, the mook moved, but couldn't act, but I try and keep to more abstract descriptions during play. The player was being a bit of a show-off, at that time, which didn't help the believability of the scene. But, sometimes that happens!
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LurkerOutThere
post Aug 21 2009, 05:05 PM
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You may not spend edge while defaulting.

I also periodically require etiquite tests when first integrating themselves into a social scene to determine how well they blend in or achieve some level of acceptance..
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Shinxy
post Aug 21 2009, 06:06 PM
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QUOTE (deek @ Aug 21 2009, 11:53 AM) *
Its up to the players, with regards to addictions. While my players role play quite a bit, no one would take a negative if there wasn't some benefit. So while I allow them to start with addictions at the level they may choose in my house rules, no one ever has, so yeah, everyone is pretty clean at the start of any campaign. And seeing that alcohol, based on these rules, is very hard to get addicted to (they would have to fail that addiction test three consecutive times before getting a mild addiction), it still allows players to drink a lot without to much fear of addiciton.

As to the IPs, yeah, its just that. Every combat turn is divided into 4 IPs. So, we are going to cycle through 4 IPs every single time. But, if they can only ACT in 3 IPs (which is normal for my players), then the final IP is movement only. They have no actions, so they can't run from a walk (which is a free action) or sprint. They just continue the mode of movement they were previously in, or stop.

So, a mook with only 1 IP, acts in the first, but can still move, take cover, etc in the other 3 passes. It works fairly well. There have been a couple times when a player has run up on a mook, shoot him, the mook moved, but couldn't act, but I try and keep to more abstract descriptions during play. The player was being a bit of a show-off, at that time, which didn't help the believability of the scene. But, sometimes that happens!


So does that mean that someone with 1 IP has to act within their first 4 or 6 meters of movement? Could a mook, say, withhold their action until a later initiative pass if they have to move farther than they can in their first initiative pass to get a bead on their target? (sorry to give you the third degree on your rules here, but I'm thinking about adapting this to my game. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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deek
post Aug 21 2009, 06:56 PM
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QUOTE (Shinxy @ Aug 21 2009, 01:06 PM) *
So does that mean that someone with 1 IP has to act within their first 4 or 6 meters of movement? Could a mook, say, withhold their action until a later initiative pass if they have to move farther than they can in their first initiative pass to get a bead on their target? (sorry to give you the third degree on your rules here, but I'm thinking about adapting this to my game. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

No problem on the questions, I enjoy answering them. It gives me a chance to tighten up my rules or rethink and change them.

Yes, if someone wanted to hold their actions, it would go to the next pass and they would lose that IPs actions. So, someone with 1 IP, could hold to the 2nd pass, having moved in the 1st and choose to act now or hold again. This really benefits the 1 IP guy, assuming he survives long enough to act. So, you could get a group of 1 IP mooks, running and continually holding their actions the the 4th pass, where they could be pretty sure no one is going to act back.

Now, the odd thing that occurs, is someone with 2 IPs, if they held their action in the 1st pass, then acted in the 2nd, would lose their 2nd IP action, because that couldn't get held til the third and you couldn't use both sets of actions in the same pass.
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starranger
post Aug 21 2009, 07:20 PM
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QUOTE (deek @ Aug 21 2009, 12:56 PM) *
No problem on the questions, I enjoy answering them. It gives me a chance to tighten up my rules or rethink and change them.

Yes, if someone wanted to hold their actions, it would go to the next pass and they would lose that IPs actions. So, someone with 1 IP, could hold to the 2nd pass, having moved in the 1st and choose to act now or hold again. This really benefits the 1 IP guy, assuming he survives long enough to act. So, you could get a group of 1 IP mooks, running and continually holding their actions the the 4th pass, where they could be pretty sure no one is going to act back.

Now, the odd thing that occurs, is someone with 2 IPs, if they held their action in the 1st pass, then acted in the 2nd, would lose their 2nd IP action, because that couldn't get held til the third and you couldn't use both sets of actions in the same pass.


Kinda why I use SR2 initiative rules with SR 4- its just the best way around. Gives you more options and makes it more realistic for cybered runners who move at a fraction of a second
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Shinxy
post Aug 21 2009, 07:42 PM
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QUOTE (deek @ Aug 21 2009, 02:56 PM) *
No problem on the questions, I enjoy answering them. It gives me a chance to tighten up my rules or rethink and change them.

Yes, if someone wanted to hold their actions, it would go to the next pass and they would lose that IPs actions. So, someone with 1 IP, could hold to the 2nd pass, having moved in the 1st and choose to act now or hold again. This really benefits the 1 IP guy, assuming he survives long enough to act. So, you could get a group of 1 IP mooks, running and continually holding their actions the the 4th pass, where they could be pretty sure no one is going to act back.

Now, the odd thing that occurs, is someone with 2 IPs, if they held their action in the 1st pass, then acted in the 2nd, would lose their 2nd IP action, because that couldn't get held til the third and you couldn't use both sets of actions in the same pass.


I'd probably treat this as, your IPs are the number of total IPs you can act in, and you can declare on any IP that you want to act as long as you have passes left.

I'd probably go "First initiative pass. Does anyone want to act?" *resolve actions* "Now movement, who's moving?" *characters move* "OK, second initiative pass. Anyone have passes left? Who wants to act?" (etc.)
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deek
post Aug 23 2009, 12:21 AM
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QUOTE (Shinxy @ Aug 21 2009, 03:42 PM) *
I'd probably treat this as, your IPs are the number of total IPs you can act in, and you can declare on any IP that you want to act as long as you have passes left.

I'd probably go "First initiative pass. Does anyone want to act?" *resolve actions* "Now movement, who's moving?" *characters move* "OK, second initiative pass. Anyone have passes left? Who wants to act?" (etc.)

Yeah, that would certainly work, too. I have to admit, I've not had any of my players hold actions, so if it did come up, I'm sure if I got some player complaints on losing a pass because of holding, I'd do the same thing. When you think about it, if you have 2 IP, it really shouldn't matter which two passes you decide to use them in...
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