Here are my house rules that I'm using for my SR 4 game:

1 SR 2 initiative. Yes I know this gives an edge to cyber characters - but come on - life isn't fair. When a Street samurai can do in .75 seconds which takes you 3 seconds - yes , he gets to go twice or even 3 times. Trade off - its hard to heal him, and Magic types - you guys will catch up in the end. After about 100 Karma - its actually the Samurai who are whining - when you look at all the options the magic types get.

2 - Laser sights 2 dice, smartgun link 4 dice. Still not totally hooked on the WOD combat system for Shadowrun - but I'm going to give it a chance. But I had to fixed this offensive oversight with the game designers.

3 - Etiquette is always specialized. I think its absurd that someone can take a general Etiquette and know the inner lingo of technomancers, and at the same time talk biz with a street gang. Too much difference in my book.

4 - Remove penalty on Maxing out stats. Come on, this is a "dumb" way to make people not max out their stats. I’m always against making rules just to force players to play a certain way. If someone wants to min max, let them - no sense in building rules just to avoid this.

5 - Racial maximums - I'm keeping these but with Karma you can raise your natural attribute maximum.

6 - Drop the RFID paranoia. Yes they are everywhere - but for 19.95, you can buy a simple radio "blaster" which kills them all. Same for Mage spell which does the same thing.

7 - Drop the Open wireless everything. As I mentioned in a previous post, this belief that all things would have "open ports" so that technomancers and other hackers could cause havoc is non-sense. Especially for Shadowrunner - Privacy and control are of the essence - and in 2071 - things returned to "normal" in my world where most companies invented hardened or closed systems that "selectively at user discretion" opened themselves up to the wireless web.

I hate hate HATE the search function on these boards (because there's no way to sort results by relevance), but I suspect if you used it you might find other threads like this without too much hassle.

I'm curious about #7. On what basis would systems open themselves up to the wireless web?

1) I add willpower to all direct spell resistance -a kind of armor. So the total resistance check is 2*willpower, or body + willpower, depending on whether it's a mana or physical spell.

2) 1s and 2s both count towards glitches when using skillsofts. Skillsofts are limited to rating 3, except for millspec rating 4.

3) By spending one edge, a player can either reduce incoming stun damage by edge, or spend a simple action to reduce his stun condition monitor damage by edge + willpower.

4) There are patches which allow for a body + patch rating check to reduce stun damage. When a player uses one, he must make a body check against toxin against a power of (number of patches used in the last hour) for real physical damage.

5) I don't use the crappy, "aim at the fat, slow moving guy to kill the ninja" grenade rules. I treat them as success test, aimed at a point in space. Everyone dodges.

The point of house rules 3 and 4 is to make stun damage less desirable than lethal damage, especially against prime runners and major targets.

Good point, Werewindlefr. As it is, stun damage is at least as good as physical, maybe better when you consider that it's easier to get 10 BOD than 10 WIL. Maybe that's on purpose and maybe not, but your rules look good.

1-Damage Resistance Tests and Armor
Instead of rolling Body+Armor during Damage Resistance Tests, the defender rolls Body and adds their Armor Resistance Value(modified Armor Value/3, rounding normally) to their hits. Each hit reduces the modified Damage Value by 1.

2-What's More Form-Fitting than Skin
When determining encumbrance, add only half the rating(round down) of Dermal Plating or Orthoskin to the ratings of other armor when comparing them to the wearer's Body*2.

3-Character's may not take more than one sprint action in a Combat Turn.

4-Unless Edge is spent on the roll, character's can't get more hits on a skill-based test than their skill rating*2, or more than 1 hit while defaulting.

5-Characters cannot use more bonus dice than their skill rating. All the handicaps in the world can't turn an amateur marksman into a seasoned combat veteran.

6-Dice pool penalties never exceed -6, before wound penalties.

7-Mages can only sustain spellcasting skill/2(round up) spells at one time.

8-Stick-n-Shock
Net hits on the attack do not add to the DV, only the duration of Electrical Damage.

Electrical Damage
A successful Electricity damage attack can stun and incapacitate the target as well. The
struck target must make a Body + Willpower (Damage) Test. Apply half the character’s Impact
armor (round down) and any other dice pool modifiers as noted above to this test. If the target
fails, he suffers a –2 dice pool modifier to all action tests due to disorientation from the shock
for a number of Combat Turns equal to 2 + net hits scored on the attack test. If the target
glitches and fails to meet the threshold, he immediately falls and is incapacitated for the same period.

 

Is that really necessary with all the sustaining penalties that mages have? Do player typically reach the limit in the house rule? Is this implemented to prevent mages from abusing sustaining ten+ spells that bring their DP to negative? Just curious. Sounds pretty fair, actually.

-No Availability limits at chargen. We don't like the artificial limits, and just like folks to be able to play concepts without worrying about qualities. We use a kind of honor system-we give a rough estimate of the power level of the game and the players just sorta pick appropriate gear for that. (Ie, if we say ''ganger'' and someone walks in with an Ultimax MMG we might talk them down to a cheap-modded stolen Assault Rifle. ) We also encourage working with your character concept regardless of the game's power level. We don't run into many, if ANY, problems here.

-If we use BP, we stick maxing an attribute at an even 20.

-We use the old 3x Attribute rating for Karma costs-we also use the old, lower Karma rewards too, however.

-We allow you to go over modified maxes with 'ware. (An Elf can get an 11 strength if he wants, if he has a 6 and gets 5 points of augmentations.) We figure if you pay the nuyen and the essence, cyberware can do quite a bit here. We of course make you raise natural maxes normally(with qualities, genetech, SURGE, etc.)

-We are very lean if there is a piece of gear you want that isn't covered in the book-we work with you to try to create something that approximates it.

Our rules sound like a powergamer's heaven, but we base things a lot on the honor system and player trust. We do tend to like our games kicked up a notch from mid-power, but this doesn't mean players can just try to create Godlike Mcgee to try to make other players look bad. Since we are leanient, we also treat it as ''don't take advantage of our kindness.''

We give human characters +10 BP of positive qualities for free (35BP max still applies) and [edge] points worth of contacts for free.
The idea is that Human shadowrunners need an edge to survive in the shadows.
It also makes humans more appealing.

Ba'wah? Why are you penalizing people with Dermal Plating/Orthoskin? By default, they are not counted as worn armor and are not included in the calculations against Body*2.

Some players try to sustain 4+ spells at once and while the rules allow for it, it just comes off as abusive at times. The bigger question that came up when we were talking about this house rule was whether it should be the mage's ability to weave spells or their ability to maintain their focus that limits how many they can sustain. When the troll mage with str 8 and Body 8 tries to pick up a crate, if he's sustaining 4 spells, yes he should probably take some sort of penalty. But how many of those spells should he be able to sustain and still be able to multi-task enough to pick up a 100 Kg crate?

Personally, I agree more with Willpower/2(rounding up) spells can be personally sustained.



Dermal Plating: Dermal plating consists of hard plastic and
metal fiber plates bonded to the user’s skin. The plates are clearly visible
and can be stylized for surface texture and color. Dermal plating
confers a bonus to both Ballistic and Impact armor equal to its rating.
Dermal plating cannot be combined with orthoskin.

Orthoskin: Weaves an energy-diffusing material just beneath the
skin providing the equivalent of personal armor, while being virtually
indistinguishable from unaugmented skin. Orthoskin adds its rating
to the character’s Ballistic and Impact ratings (cumulative with worn
armor). It cannot be combined with dermal plating.

I haven't seen it anywhere in the books that either of these don't count against encumbrance.

And they should. They make the skin less elastic, heavier, and thus less "comfy to move in". It's integrated to the skin, and thus less clunky than real armor, so treating it as you treat FFBA makes sense.

Hear, hear! Anything to make characters have less armour than tanks (or at least encumber them when they do it) makes me happy.

Take another look at the Armor and Encumbrance rules.

As Written, you are correct.
As Written, Materializing Air spirits are automatically Encumbered.

As Strongly Implied, only worn armor applies for determining Encumbrance.


This is, yet again, an example of shitty writing in the SR4 books, and can be compared to the fact I brought up a while ago that every single spell in SR4, As Written, is subject to Object Resistance (yes, including Indirect spells; opposed tests & thresholds are not, as written, mutually exclusive, and nothing exempts Indirect spells, or any other spell, from being subject to OR, although a number of things Strongly Imply it).

As strongly implied, only physical armor counts towards encumbrance. Mystical/magical barrier-like effects like what spirits have... don't.

Take it easy on the gentleman/lady. It makes just as much sense reality-wise to be encumbered by dermal plating as armor plating, and it's a fact that RAW never makes a distinction. Most people play ignoring encumbrance from non-worn sources, but the game won't break if it's seen differently.

It won't break, but a lot of dumpshockers keyboards will when they start crying on the keys.

I only count dermal armor as encumbering for certain tests, such as swimming and scratching your own back.

I also fiddled with the idea of using SR2 IP but figured I'd keep the house ruling to a minimum for the sake of any new players that move on to other games.

Are you using the tables from Rolemaster?

So what about dermal sheaths?

He applies the same rule to all implanted armor. IIRC, it doesn't apply to a troll's natural armor, but I could be mistaken.

Long list of my house rules:

Armor (Encumbrance)
• A Character may only have a combined (Ballistic and Impact) Armor Value equal to 2 times their Strength and Body.
o For every 2 full points (or fraction thereof) that the combined armor value has over that number, they suffer a -1 modifier to Agility and Reaction.
• One may purchase custom fit armor at quadruple the cost. Custom Fit means the combined Armor value allowance is equal to 3 times Strength and Body. Availability is 4 higher.
o Note: Add-on Armors such as Securetech PPS or Helmets must also be bought custom if combined with custom armor or count as 2 times their value for Encumbrance

Armor (Form Fit)
• Form Fit Armor no longer counts as Armor. Instead please use the Values listed as Damage Resistance dice for Ballistic and Impact attacks at the rating listed. As such it is not affected by attacks that reduce Armor.
o Note: A Full Body Suit not utilizing its full covering (IE: Gloves, Booties, and Hood) counts as 1 less Ballistic and 1 less Impact. (5/1)
• Encumbrance: Form Fit armor still counts as armor for Encumbrance. It uses its full values instead of half due to the changes in the encumbrance rules and is considered custom.
o Note: When combining Form Fit with non-custom armor use the following encumbrance values:
 Form Fit Shirt: 2
 Form Fit Half Body Suit: 3
 Form Fit Full Body Suit: 5
• Form Fit may NOT accept Armor Modifications.

Bows
• Bows do (STR/2)+3 Damage
• Collapsible Bows do (STR/2)+2 Damage

Character Creation
• Characters may be created using my optional Character Creation rules.
• Creating a background is very important for your character. Characters may earn up to 10 Karma, the amount determined by the GM, for a fully filled out Character Development form based on the quality and quantity of the answered questions.

Called Shots
• Characters may only use the rule of Targeting a vital location (-1 to -4 Dice for +1 to +4 Damage) when in a surprise situation.
• In normal combat only the called shot to avoid armor or hit a particular location/object may be used.

Combat Turn
• A combat turn is exactly 6 seconds in length. Each phase is worth 1 second of time.

Concealment
• Concealment modifiers that affect all perception are added to stealth rolls rather then subtracted from perception.

Cyber limbs (Armor)
• Cyberlimb Armor adds half its value to a characters natural armor (round down), which in turn is added to any outer armor.
• Cyberlimb Armor adds half its value (round up) to Damage Resistance tests.
• To calculate the characters overall Armor value per limb use the following method (retaining fractions):
o Full Cyberlimbs and Skulls add their Armor Rating.
o Partial Limbs add 1/2 their Armor Rating.
o Hands/Feet add 1/4 their Armor Rating.
o Torsos add 2 times their Armor Rating.

Cyberlimbs (Attributes)
• Cyberskulls do not have Stats and can only accept Armor mods. The Armor mods use Rating x 1 Capacity.
• Cybertorso Enhancements and Armor only take up half their listed Capacity.

Cyberlimbs (Damage)
• When leading with a Cyberlimb in Melee, you may do Physical Damage as listed below.
• Obvious Cyber Hands/Feet do (STR/2)-1 Physical Damage.
• Obvious Lower Cyberlimbs do (STR/2) Physical Damage.
• Obvious Full Cyberlimbs do (STR/2)+1 Physical Damage.
• Synthetic Cyber Hands/Feet do (STR/2)-2 Physical Damage.
• Synthetic Lower Cyberlimbs do (STR/2)-1 Physical Damage.
• Synthetic Full Cyberlimbs do (STR/2) Physical Damage.

Damage (Severe)
• Any attack that does 7 or more damage in a single shot causes a character to take 1 box per (Body) Combat Turns due to blood loss and trauma. This is addition to the possibility of severe damage. This blood loss can be stopped with a first aid (2) roll.

Dying (Body Overflow)
• When in an overflow situation, you take 1 box per (Body) Minutes.

Full Defense (Ranged Weapons in Melee)
• When an attacker targets you in melee combat with a ranged weapon you may use your appropriate melee skill in place of Dodge or Gymnastics to fend off the attack.

Hacking (Extended Tests)
• All Extended Tests for Hacking can make up to LOGIC rolls. The Hacker does not take the -1 however for each roll after the first

Healing (Extended Tests)
• When making a healing test, you must factor in all your wound penalties to the test. Do not forget its -1 per 3 boxes of damage (including overflow).
o Yes, this means someone severely injured and knocked out may not ever wake up without medical attention.
o If you have taken enough damage to be dying, you cannot heal any stun until you have healed your body of any overflow damage.
• A character will typically regain consciousness when their Stun condition monitor is at a value equal or less than their Willpower. However, this is up to GM discretion.

Initiation (Learning Metamagic)
• It costs 15 Karma to learn a metamagic technique outside of initiation. The maximum number of metamagic techniques that may be learned is equal to the character’s Magic + initiation grade.
• Initiate discounts for Group or Ordeal may apply to this cost.

Initiate Powers (Lengthening)
• Lengthening is the Initiates’ version of Sustaining a spell for an extended duration. It has a prerequisite of Centering.
• A character may take a sustained spell and lengthen it by making a Magic + Ritual Sorcery (Force). This is a complex action.
• The casters Initiation Grade times the casters Magic Rating determines the length of time in minutes that the spell will sustain without concentration.
• The caster may regain control of the spell at any time by spending a free action.
• When Lengthening a spell the caster takes drain equal Force/2.

Initiative
• The GM may invoke the following optional initiative rules at any time to speed up game play.
• Initiative is only rolled once per encounter, with the GM keeping track of when people go.
• Characters may use a simple action to ‘reassess the situation’ which allows them to re-roll their initiative.
• If a characters initiative passes change at any time during the combat, initiative must be re-rolled for that character.
• May use the following optional speed charts at the end of these rules to balance out the phases.
• Characters may move during every phase.

Movement (Movement Rate)
• Characters may move in every pass, regardless of if they have an action. Their movement takes place during their initiative value. However, you can only initiate movement on your pass or as a free action on the pass you aborted from. This is a free action.
• Note: This means if you abort your 3 to defend in phase 2, on your normal phase 3, you may use a free action to initiate movement (which can involve taking cover, etc).
o Walking
 Dwarfs 2m
 Humans, Elves, Orks 2m
 Trolls 3m
o Running
 Dwarfs 4m
 Humans, Elves, Orks 5m
 Trolls 7m

• Note: When calculating movement for other things not listed, divide Walking and Running speed by 5.

Movement (Movement Rate, Athletics)
• When running a character may choose how much, if any, extra effort they are putting into the run.
o With a Simple Action, you can make a Running test, every 2 hits equates to 1 extra meter of running for that pass only.
o With a Complex Action, a character can do an all out run. Make a Running test, each hit equates to 1 extra meter of movement for that pass.
 When using the Complex Action to Run, this speed can be maintained until your next pass where you have an action.
 This type of movement MAY be combined with a melee charge attack.

Skills (Automatics)
• The Automatics skill is broken into the following specializations: Machine Pistol, Submachine Gun, Carbine, and Assault Rifle.

Skills (Long Arms)
• The Long Arms skill is broken into the following specializations: Sport Rifle, Sniper Rifle, and Shotgun.

Skills (Pistols)
• The Pistols group is broken into the following specializations: Hold Out, Light Pistol, Medium Pistol, Heavy Pistol, Revolver, and Taser.

Spells (Drain)
• Direct Combat Spells get +1 Drain.
• Indirect Combat Spells get -1 Drain.
• All Stun Combat Spells get +1 Drain.
o This is in addition to the direct combat spell drain increase

Spells (Increase Reflexes)
• Increase Reflexes now has a threshold equal to 2 times the number of passes (to a max of +3)

Spells (Indirect Combat)
• Indirect Combat spells are not limited to Force in hits for the purposes of hitting the target due to the extra dodge and then resistance tests the targets can make.

Spells (Over Casting)
• To represent the difficulty in knowingly hurting oneself, you must make a Composure (Drain/2) Test in order to overcast. Failure represents an inability to overcast and the spell is then cast at Magic Rating.

Spirits (Bound Spirit Sustaining)
• Bound Spirits may sustain a single spell up to their force using a duration of Force in minute per service.

Spirits (Over Summon)
• To represent the difficulty in knowingly hurting oneself, you must make a Composure (Spirits Force/2) Test in order to summon a spirit over your Magic rating. Failure represents an inability to summon a spirit that strong and the spirit is then summoned at Magic Rating.

Submersion (Learning Echo’s)
• It costs 15 Karma to learn an Echo outside of Submersion. The maximum number of Echoes that may be learned is equal to the character’s Resonance + Submersion grade.
• Echo discounts for Networks and Tasks do apply to this cost.

Vehicles (Recoil Compensation)
• Vehicles provide a Recoil Compensation Bonus equal to their Body for any weapon fired that is mounted on the vehicle.

Weapons (Dart Gun)
• Defense tests against dart guns are unique. When rolling to defend you add your Impact Armor to the test. A Dart gun needs 2 Net hits on the ranged attack in order to achieve its drug effect.

Weapons (Firearms)
• Please use the Shadowrun Firearms V4 for all weapons, ammo, ranges, and accessories. Any weapons not on the list or in conflict then please see the GM for resolution.

Speed CHART Actions
IP 1 2 3 4 5 6
1 X - - X - -
2 X - X - X -
3 X - X X - X
4 X X -- X X X
5 X X X X X X

My only house rule is to have fun. And I like it RAW .

Oh, another one of mine: there are no narrow full auto/long burst. A narrow full auto is replaced by 3 short bursts, a long burst by two short bursts.

The point is simple: if a guy can shrug off 3 bullets with almost no damage, then the 6 others aren't going to do much, especially since, recoil or not, it's almost impossible to send 10 bullets at the exact same place (the hole in the armor); it's already difficult enough to get all 10 to hit.

This makes high-armor high-body characters a bit stronger, weapons with high-DV instead of burst capabilities more interesting.

I know we've come to hate the wireless aspect of SR4, it alternately makes us laugh and cry at how awful it was handled. As such we just try to avoid a lot of it. But really it's RAW, and of course the universal rule: Fun. But we've only recently upgraded to SR4, and only because someone else agreed to run it. We've all played since 89, and while we love the game we're not as happy with SR4 as we could be.

a few that my friends group had.

no availability limits.

can use any chargen method.

each character has to take a negative quality that he can exploit.(for serious, thats how he said it)

the fixed target number is 4 instead of 5.(sr easy mode XP)

Mental Manipulations House Rules:

Control Actions and Control Thoughts (as well as the Mob versions of both spells) are changed to be mutually exclusive spells. In other words, you cannot use Control Thoughts to make the spell recipient take certain actions, if you want to do that, you must use Control Actions. As per RAW, there would never be a need to use Control Actions, as Control Thoughts has the following specific wording:

"The caster seizes control of the target’s mind, directing everything the
target does. The caster mentally gives commands with a Simple Action
and the target is compelled to obey."

A truly overpowered spell if I have ever seen one, and it caused considerable issues with my group before the house rule was made. The house rule makes Control Thoughts more like Influence, only you are not limited to a single suggestion, as long as the spell is still in effect, you can continue to make suggestions using Simple Actions. You cannot make suggestions like "Shoot yourself in the head with your sidearm" with either spell, you still need Control Actions to make someone do that. You could make a suggestion such as "You want to kill yourself", however, this may not necessarily have the intended effect of immediately causing the person to kill themselves, they might instead break down crying, or decide that suicide by Shadowrunner is the best way to go out (i.e. they start shooting at your team, fully expecting to die).

Also, because of the relative utility of Mental Manipulations, I made tweaks to drain values. Influence and Control Emotions being the least utilitarian, I dropped the dv for Influence to be the same as Control Emotions (F/2), and also evened up Control Actions and Control Thoughts to both use the same DV (F/2)+1, or (F/2)+3 for the Mob versions.

I've got a short list that I use:

Movement
+ I have set all movement rates to be evenly divisible by 4. We always have 4 IPs and everything is allowed to move on all 4 passes.
+ I've set 1 meter = 4 feet = 1 hex. Just makes everyone's life easier when tactics come into play.

Training
+ Created some complimentary rules that fill in the gaps on training. Stuff like, how to find a trainer, how much they cost, made instruction tests worth something (RAW is very weak)...
+ Limit simultaneous training of skills by Logic

Addictions
+ No negative qualities allowed.
+ Created a stair-step system that allows players to gain/remove addictions over time.

Since I didn't like how easy and reality-breaking it was to dodge bullets under RAW, I changed ranged combat to a threshold-based success test system based on range. A lot of the modifiers to defense were changed to be modifiers to the attacker's dice pool instead.

I also didn't like how fluffy IC and Spiders detecting hackers was (basically, GM decides entirely when a IC program or Spider might happen to wander by and detect the player), so I switched to Security Tallies.

350 BP character creation has turned out to be a godsend, much closer to the kind of game I want to run. GMs having problems with power players run wild are encouraged to try it.

Could you elaborate on... well, all of these. Especially would like to know what you came up with for addictions.

1. Using logic+hacking (limit # of hits= to program rating for the hacking rules)
2. Armor degrades by 1 ballistic, 1 impact every time the PC takes damage.
3. In certain situations, edge cannot be used to escape death.
4. During course of a session, if a question of rules comes up-fudge it and look it up later. More than likely the extra dice would not have made a significant difference.
5. Ettiquette helps in dealing with contacts.

Sure. I'll put it in a spoiler.

deek’s SR4 House Rules

I really like those addiction rules. My players right now seem to regard addiction qualities as a free BP giveaway... which pisses me off (especially since I used to work as a residential counselor in recovery programs).

So by not allowing addiction as a negative quality, do you play where all your characters start out clean and acquire their addictions in-game?

Also could you explain your system with the IPs? Is it that everyone gets to move in all IPs, but are only allowed to ACT in certain ones?

Its up to the players, with regards to addictions. While my players role play quite a bit, no one would take a negative if there wasn't some benefit. So while I allow them to start with addictions at the level they may choose in my house rules, no one ever has, so yeah, everyone is pretty clean at the start of any campaign. And seeing that alcohol, based on these rules, is very hard to get addicted to (they would have to fail that addiction test three consecutive times before getting a mild addiction), it still allows players to drink a lot without to much fear of addiciton.

As to the IPs, yeah, its just that. Every combat turn is divided into 4 IPs. So, we are going to cycle through 4 IPs every single time. But, if they can only ACT in 3 IPs (which is normal for my players), then the final IP is movement only. They have no actions, so they can't run from a walk (which is a free action) or sprint. They just continue the mode of movement they were previously in, or stop.

So, a mook with only 1 IP, acts in the first, but can still move, take cover, etc in the other 3 passes. It works fairly well. There have been a couple times when a player has run up on a mook, shoot him, the mook moved, but couldn't act, but I try and keep to more abstract descriptions during play. The player was being a bit of a show-off, at that time, which didn't help the believability of the scene. But, sometimes that happens!

You may not spend edge while defaulting.

I also periodically require etiquite tests when first integrating themselves into a social scene to determine how well they blend in or achieve some level of acceptance..

So does that mean that someone with 1 IP has to act within their first 4 or 6 meters of movement? Could a mook, say, withhold their action until a later initiative pass if they have to move farther than they can in their first initiative pass to get a bead on their target? (sorry to give you the third degree on your rules here, but I'm thinking about adapting this to my game.

No problem on the questions, I enjoy answering them. It gives me a chance to tighten up my rules or rethink and change them.

Yes, if someone wanted to hold their actions, it would go to the next pass and they would lose that IPs actions. So, someone with 1 IP, could hold to the 2nd pass, having moved in the 1st and choose to act now or hold again. This really benefits the 1 IP guy, assuming he survives long enough to act. So, you could get a group of 1 IP mooks, running and continually holding their actions the the 4th pass, where they could be pretty sure no one is going to act back.

Now, the odd thing that occurs, is someone with 2 IPs, if they held their action in the 1st pass, then acted in the 2nd, would lose their 2nd IP action, because that couldn't get held til the third and you couldn't use both sets of actions in the same pass.

Kinda why I use SR2 initiative rules with SR 4- its just the best way around. Gives you more options and makes it more realistic for cybered runners who move at a fraction of a second

I'd probably treat this as, your IPs are the number of total IPs you can act in, and you can declare on any IP that you want to act as long as you have passes left.

I'd probably go "First initiative pass. Does anyone want to act?" *resolve actions* "Now movement, who's moving?" *characters move* "OK, second initiative pass. Anyone have passes left? Who wants to act?" (etc.)

Yeah, that would certainly work, too. I have to admit, I've not had any of my players hold actions, so if it did come up, I'm sure if I got some player complaints on losing a pass because of holding, I'd do the same thing. When you think about it, if you have 2 IP, it really shouldn't matter which two passes you decide to use them in...