Let me put in my two centinuyen about something that's a pet peeve of mine.

Games like Shadowrun exist as a complete system. It's not enough to have the main book and a handfull of the supplements on the shelves and expect the line to survive much less thrive at a FLGS. You have to have ALL the core books on the shelves, in depth, ALL the time. The only time you should have an actual hole is when you are about to close the last register and somebody buys the last when you have a new shipment due in the morning. That goes for lots of systems, but for Shadowrun, this principle is absolutely KEY. Here are the reasons:

First, it's a system that has passed between hands several times, which makes it seem like a possible risk for a person who is new to get involved with if they're familiar with the line's history.

Second, gamers are impulse buyers above all things. If you have it on your shelf, usually they're more than willing to patronize (and support) their FLGS - it's usually where they will check first. If the FLGS does NOT have the product in hand, the gamer will immediately hit the big chains that offer discounts. Failing that, there's always overnight internet ordering at a steep discount that pays for the upgraded shipping. If the gamer comes to expect that their FLGS never has what they want in a given line, they will just skip the FLGS and head straight to the other outlets. Once you lose that customer, it's nearly impossible to get them back in your doors.

Third, when you have the system on the shelf in depth, it encourages players to try to get their friends involved. "See? Right here, the game I'm always talking about. And here are the rest of the core books." There's a certain important aspect to the way gamers are wired where seeing a full line complete and in order on the shelf is like an aphrodisiac to their gamer side. (Deny it, just try.) That psychological effect is one of the things FLGS often overlook, and it's why so many of them fail or stay small.

Fourth, and here's the biggie: as a combination of all the above, you would be SHOCKED just how often in a system like Shadowrun (or Battletech or several other systems like them) where there is a BBB and up to half a dozen true "core" supplements, new converts to a system want to be able to buy them all at once. Even if they don't get every last book, they "know" they can come back at any time because they "know" the store always keeps stuff like that on the shelves. But if even ONE of those seven books is out-of-stock when they walk in, they will turn around and go elsewhere. It's not a guess or a hypothesis; I've seen it too often with my own eyes.

Fifth and final, there is no excuse not to have the big new product on the shelves. Sure, it's expensive to have to lay out to your distributor for the new books and there's an element of risk involved in over-ordering, but it's nothing compared to people showing up on the first weekend after a mid-week street date and being told you're out. It makes you look (the FLGS) like you're an amateur or you don't care about them (the pain-in-the-hoop gamer). Even if you over-order, that just means (unless the thing's a TOTAL flop) that you just don't need to re-order it for a few more weeks; there's also the added benefit that Diamond/Alliance doesn't always buy significantly above pre-orders on a lot of what they consider "secondary" lines, and that means you may NEED those extra books to carry you through your distributor's first re-stock or even to the next print run!

If you run a FLGS, take this as good, sound advice. Maybe you disagree, fine; I don't want immediate agreement necessarily but I DO want you to think about it. If you DON'T run a FLGS, take this argument to the one you patronize most often and try to explain to them why it's so important to keep a system fully stocked - because you can better get new people hooked (and buying product) if it's immediately on the shelf. They may argue they don't care about keeping Amazoniacs or Walmarters in their doors, but if that's the case, they're fooling themselves. Those people would support their FLGS if they KNEW they could just walk in and pick up what they wanted any time, because it's seldom about saving the five (or occasionally 10) bucks on their purchase - they want their new book/game/toy/miniature/SHINEY! right the slot now and they will do what it takes to get it in their hands, because that money's burning a hole in their pockets.

Good luck, and thanks for reading.

Thanks to who ever or which ever thread it was about B&N. I ordered it last night and got shipping confirmation today. I hope I get it for this weekend's blood bath.

Well I guess the postal service is running on greased wheels. I got my confirmation on Monday and my book will be here in about 10 minutes according to the website. WA to WI that has got to be some kinda of record.


Trevor

You're most welcome.

I still have yet to receive my confirmation. I went so far as to email the quartermaster at battlecorp and got a response that it was packaged and waiting for a UPS label and that it should ship on Monday. Didn't see a confirmation from either Battlecorps or UPS. Sent another email to quartermaster yesterday afternoon, asking for an update. Still nothing.

Not happy. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

Did you order the regular or the LE. Cause the LE hasn't been released yet.

I ordered both + pdf. No confirmation for Battlecorps.

Confirmation from my group that they bought copies at B&N and would like me to buy their copies coming via BattleCorps. I think they are joking... I hope they are joking...

BlueMax

*sigh*

I know I already have my copy purchased at B&N Brick & Mortar, but I still don't even have a confirmation yet of shipment. 15 days after street. If it weren't for the B&N copy, I'd be going off entirely about now. I ordered both the regular and the LE. I'm even starting to worry a bit if I'll even get the LE I paid for after hearing from everybody how few they're really printing.

Done is done and all that, but geez. I heard from somebody else that the answer if you email is something like "we had a snafu between the shipping company and our warehouse so we'll get to you as soon as we un-snafu it" but this is a lot longer than I would expect. I have to ask: Are those of us still waiting actually waiting for a second (rush) printing? Can we get a straight answer to that, at least?

I ordered the PDF + Standard Edition SR4A, not LE. I was told on Friday that my copy was "packaged up and waiting for a UPS label." That seems to indicate that I have a physical copy already assigned to my order and waiting to ship, but I haven't gotten any more information since then.

And yeah, I'm pretty much going off at this point. The "small company working hard" excuse just doesn't cut it. Two weeks after street and the preorders that they charged us for in March haven't even shipped. Inexcusable. The S&H costs at the very least should be refunded for anyone still waiting for this thing to ship.

There's a message on their site when you click to pre-order something that your order won't ship till everything is ready. So it may be that they're waiting for the LE before they ship your regular. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

I feel for you, I really do. I preordered and just got mine, but just wait till you get it. A true work of art a masterpiece. I do agree that the shipping at the very least should maybe be refunded or something to try and soften the blow. I will continue to preorder through Battleshop as it is easier for me, but sometimes the wait can hurt. From what Adam has said though, they are looking at this and I truely believe they will fix this issue and improve the next time. Because lets face it if they don't, they could be in a world of hurt from the consumer and I for one do not want to see anything bad happen to my favorite game. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Trevor

According to all info from Adam as well as what's posted on the CGL website, the regular SR4A will ship before the LE comes in for those who ordered both. Of course, I was told that my order was ready to ship on Friday, and still hasn't, so...


And I fully believe that I'll be really impressed when (if?) the book finally shows up, but that doesn't make this kind of service OK. It's not like the quality of the book is going to improve the longer I wait. It's going to be the same great book, all that's increasing is my frustration over the fact that the thing's still sitting on a table somewhere, waiting to go out the door, when I could have had it two weeks ago at B&N.

I'm running a session this weekend, and I was hoping to finally stop working off of a laptop screen for reference. I like the PDF, but I should have my hardcopy by now.

I wonder if there's a way to get confirmation there are enough LEs coming to meet pre-order demand of us individuals AND the B&M FLGSs out there? Sure looks like B&N got dibbs on the basic book, and if the shipping SNAFU is true, that could explain a lot (send first shipment to main warehouse for B&M distribution for street instead of fulfilment to individual pre-orders). I just hope I don't get a "Dear Kerenshara" letter telling me that there was greater demand for the product than expected and we regret to inform you and so forth and so on. That's my biggest fear right now, to be honest... especially if the FLGS gets one somehow.

LEs are allocated to direct customers first.

*Takes a deep breath and slowly lets it back out in relief*

Thank you, Adam. That's exactly what I needed to hear.

On the other thing, which for ME is mostly accademic since I got A copy from B&N - what's the real story behind SR4A preorders that haven't shipped yet? Are we backed up behind Battletech or Eclipse Phase somehow? Or is it really that we're waiting for a new shipment/printing?

There's just a huge order backup, since there was a big BattleTech book -- Strategic Operations -- that got caught up in the Topps-closing-Wizkids timeline and our ugly first half of the year. So those pre-orders are older than the SR4A ones, and take priority ... and then there's the issue of properly splitting up the orders for SR4A + Limited Edition, and the timing of all this hitting right around Gen Con. Our humble little shipping operation (which is one person, not fulltime) is simply overtaxed and only time will get things fixed.

A perfect storm of bad circumstances. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Ah. Thank you. That is the single clearest, most concise, and most forthcoming explanation I have seen. Having pulled my time in S&R, I can sympathize fully with your S&R "department". No single part explains the delays, but all together, including having to split the orders correctly for the LE combo people (which also explains why we're the last ones standing as far as I can tell) now it makes sense.

Um, just as a thought... if you'd have given us all that up front, you might have saved a few of us a decent ammount of Malox^TM (as well as saving quite a lot of our bleating in the threads).

*wink*

Still doesn't explain why the shipping department (read: Troy) told me my order was ready to ship on Friday, and told me it should ship on Monday, and I've still heard nothing. Especially since I didn't order the LE, so there's no splitting, in my case.

grumblegrumblegrumblegrumble. rabblerabblerabblerabble.

Sorry. I'll shut up now.

Want a guess, 'cause I can give you one. The thing that got my attention from Adam's perfect storm was the whole "separate the LE Combos" part. Did you order a combo? I would bet it's because the paperwork to make sure they don't double-ship you the regular SR4A down the road is waiting to be finished and entered into some database before the send it out.

I have a day off Friday and a three day weekend coming. Need some help in the shipping department? How close are you guys to the Front Range Free Zone?

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Carl

I think the books ship from the Seattle Metroplex.

Direct orders ship from the Seattle area, yes.

I cannot speak to any individual's orders -- that's micro-level stuff that simply isn't part of my job. I will interfere only when I'm convinced that something has Gone Wrong (IE: emails sent to Troy aren't making it to him, Troy's emails aren't making it to a customer, etc) and right now, I think the absolute best thing to do is stay the heck outta his inbox and let him ship books. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I'm a club member at my FLGS, so I get 10% off of RPGs and board games, 15% off graphic novels, and 20% off comic books. Plus Shadowrun is one of their priority RPG lines, so they get all the books the day they come out. Of course, I always let the owner know when a new street date for a SR book comes up and he makes sure he sets a copy for me behind the counter. Actually, all the Catalyst systems are on his priority list, along with the game which shall not be mentioned, all the different Cthulhu games, GURPS, and a couple others. Always keeps at least one copy of every book in those systems in stock. They also get lots of Indie RPGs.

Having a great FLGS just down the street from me makes life easier. Even if I can get a book a little cheaper online (not normally can after factoring in shipping), I like being able to go in and put my hands on it first. Look through it, feel its weight, check the quality. Don' know, maybe it is just me.

An FLGS that actually treats (and believes) Shadowrun as a PRIORITY product line?!

*faints*

That's about what I figured. I'm cool, as long as I know I'm getting my LE and my SR4A will arrive eventually. Good luck. Sounds like you need it.