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Stahlseele
post Aug 24 2009, 08:40 AM
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But technically, you would only have to build in a reverse control rig into some body eith MBW allready in it it seems . .
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Aaron
post Aug 24 2009, 11:13 AM
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QUOTE (BishopMcQ @ Aug 23 2009, 10:49 PM) *
IP Meat // Matrix
1 Shoot (x2) // Shoot
2 Shoot (x2) // Shoot
3 Shoot (x2) // Shoot
4 Shoot, Jump // Shoot
5 Matrix Action // Shoot

7 shots vs 5 shots (Presuming SA/BF) With More than Metahuman, it becomes a Free Action so you can take the 8th shot before jumping.


Er ... wouldn't this require you to start out in the meat? Wouldn't you then be stuck with your meat IPs for the Combat Turn?
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bmcoomes
post Aug 24 2009, 11:48 AM
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QUOTE (BishopMcQ @ Aug 24 2009, 12:23 AM) *
Oh, and to completely undermine the entire discussion, a GM would be completely within his/her rights to say that there is not a metahuman version of the Stirrup Interface since it is designed for animals. (Augmentation p. 152)

Metahumans are animals. Even now you are still part of the animal kingdom.
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Doc Byte
post Aug 24 2009, 12:59 PM
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You don't want to put yourself into this danger? - Send your rigged clone! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cyber.gif)

Btw, that would make the first multi-use suicide bombers. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotate.gif)
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HappyDaze
post Aug 24 2009, 02:36 PM
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Or, just get the mini-cruise missile drone and rig it if all you want to do is to deliver a bang.
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TBRMInsanity
post Aug 24 2009, 02:47 PM
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QUOTE (Rasumichin @ Aug 23 2009, 08:25 AM) *
Here's what Augmentation has to say on Stirrup interfaces :



This means that yes, the stirrup interface does artificially induce a state of seizure, just like a MBW does.
Because a Stirrup is a modified MBW.
Plus a rigger control.
So that you can, well, rig a creature with a Stirrup implant.


There you said it yourself that the stirrup is first a modified MBW and secondly has a rigger control on it. Thus a Stirrup is NOT a MBW and a MBW DOES NOT allow you to jump into yourself and thus you CAN NOT use a stirrup on yourself to jump into yourself. End of story.
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Rasumichin
post Aug 24 2009, 04:13 PM
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QUOTE (TBRMInsanity @ Aug 24 2009, 02:47 PM) *
There you said it yourself that the stirrup is first a modified MBW and secondly has a rigger control on it. Thus a Stirrup is NOT a MBW and a MBW DOES NOT allow you to jump into yourself and thus you CAN NOT use a stirrup on yourself to jump into yourself. End of story.


Amazing.
I think you just invented a new kind of logical fallacy.
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tsuyoshikentsu
post Aug 24 2009, 06:16 PM
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Mathematically speaking, you're looking at sets while he's looking at basic addition. Since this is all fluff, he's clearly being a complete ****ing moron.

As regards to the drone discussion: I'm not too hot on the drone rules. I thought if you jumped in for full VR, you got a full set of actions...?
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otakusensei
post Aug 24 2009, 06:41 PM
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QUOTE (tsuyoshikentsu @ Aug 24 2009, 02:16 PM) *
Mathematically speaking, you're looking at sets while he's looking at basic addition. Since this is all fluff, he's clearly being a complete ****ing moron.

As regards to the drone discussion: I'm not too hot on the drone rules. I thought if you jumped in for full VR, you got a full set of actions...?


You don't get a full set of VR actions the pass you jump in, you've spent your actions that pass getting into VR. Same concept projecting into the astral. If you had VR actions waiting for you to use that pass, it wouldn't make much sense for logging in to require an action at all.

On the MBW thing: Stirrup is a MBW with a doodad that let's you rig the MBW system. It's MBW+, so you couldn't "rig" yourself with a standard MBW system. At least, someone else couldn't do it. I'm sure in a fluff sense it works because you're "jumped into" yourself, but that's all you can jump into without a commlink and you can't have friends over. Mechanically it operates exactly as it says on the tin, and that means you can't jump into that guard with the MBW system and walk him around like he has a stirrup system.
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Rasumichin
post Aug 24 2009, 06:50 PM
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Wait, there where people in this thread who claimed that you can rig somebody with a normal, off-the-rack MBW?

Damn, in that case, i'm awfully sorry TBRMI.

Never wanted to make that point.
Of course you need a Stirrup interface to rig any living being.
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Rasumichin
post Aug 24 2009, 07:08 PM
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Okay, reread the whole thing...
Yeah, i really see your point.

Of course, a normal MBW couldn't be used for rigging somebody.
Even though i'm fairly certain that hacking it would allow a crude form of control over the body (like moving a puppet on strings or something).

However, what you can do with a normal MBW doesn't have that much to do with the original topic.

If one would come across a Stirrup interface tailored for metahumans, anything in the biodrone section would be possible.
And i'm fairly certain that this is possible, as there's already primate biodrones (such as Ares' CyGor warform).
Not that far off to apply the same technique to another kind of primate, right?

And yes, i think that one has to adapt a Stirrup to the species in question, i don't think that you can just implant the same device in a condor, a tiger or a human (unless you use something along the lines of the Chrome Critters optional rule from RC- if you can use metahuman cyberware in nagas, centaurs or pixies with a 20% Essence penalty, why not use gorilla cyberware in a human with the same penalty applied?).

For a specifically human Stirrup, i'd probably increase Availability and would certainly change legality from R to F.

This all doesn't really adress the issue of self-rigging, though.
But none of the points mentioned above excludes it.

The problem in this case would be to find a way to apply a RAS override (so that the user doesn't try to move his body in the usual way) while still allowing the rigger to move the body via rigging.
If the rigger and drone body are identical, this could lead to paradoxical signals cancelling each other out.

There may be some way around it (which may boil down to applied RAW phlebotinum), but it would certainly be a concern as far as plausibility goes.

Balance wise, i don't see a problem with the idea, though.
The -1 to all actions and the potential risks from biofeedback, as well as possible hotsim addiction, should make up for a cheap way to get 5IPs.
I'd probably allow it in a game i run.
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HardSix
post Aug 25 2009, 12:17 AM
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QUOTE (Doc Byte @ Aug 24 2009, 07:59 AM) *
You don't want to put yourself into this danger? - Send your rigged clone! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cyber.gif)

Btw, that would make the first multi-use suicide bombers. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotate.gif)
That's what I was thinking... one lone terrorist or vigilante (possible a para/quadraplegic or heavily damaged individual) using stirruped clones to perform their tasks. That's just begging for an "Oracle/Barbara Gordon" rigger running stirruped "Batgirl" clones, or a "Wolfe" riding "Goodwin" clones. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)
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HappyDaze
post Aug 25 2009, 12:53 AM
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QUOTE
That's what I was thinking... one lone terrorist or vigilante (possible a para/quadraplegic or heavily damaged individual) using stirruped clones to perform their tasks.

That's a very expensive attack plan. If he has his own cloning facilites then it's even more expensive, and if he doesn't his plan won't last very long.

It's MUCH cheaper to kidnap a homeless bum and force implant a Sim Module (Hot-Sim Modified) with a hardwired suicide bomber personafix. Now that you've given them the motivation, just equip them and give them a target. They're back to being one-shots, but they're very economical and swift to produce.
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Prime Mover
post Aug 25 2009, 12:54 AM
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1. Team is hired to for info retrieval. (list of names)
2. Team is to kidnap a half a dozen special forces personnel. (non-lethal weapons only)
3. Team is to escort packages to a remote clinic were they act as security for the doc and his staff there. (A few days to move implants around,perform lobotomies and implant stirrup.)
4. Team is abandoned in wilderness to deal with this first test batch of "rigged" assets.

Or bums are disappearing off the streets, only to turn up chasing the team during a test run.

Something to spring on a team they'd never see coming.

Edit: Cost is the biggest de-motivator for rigged sentients but it does just have a coolness factor you can't deny.
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hyzmarca
post Aug 29 2009, 03:14 PM
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Best use for metahuman stirrup rigs: High end bunraku parlors. Let the clients do the rigging.
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Prime Mover
post Aug 29 2009, 04:15 PM
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QUOTE (hyzmarca @ Aug 29 2009, 11:14 AM) *
Best use for metahuman stirrup rigs: High end bunraku parlors. Let the clients do the rigging.


Gives new meaning to the phrase "go fuck yourself".
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Rasumichin
post Aug 29 2009, 04:25 PM
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QUOTE (Prime Mover @ Aug 29 2009, 04:15 PM) *
Gives new meaning to the phrase "go fuck yourself".


The phrase "go fuck yourself" has already officially been given new meaning with the introduction of Poly-POV porn sims.
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