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Karoline
post Oct 10 2009, 12:27 PM
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Oh, also, one of the places I got the reach 1 = 1m is the fact that the monofilament whip is 2m long and has a reach of 2.
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Dr Funfrock
post Oct 10 2009, 01:37 PM
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QUOTE (Saint Sithney @ Oct 8 2009, 09:49 AM) *
I know full dodge is an interrupt action, but can you also call a gymnastic dodge anytime?


No, you can't. The only time that Gymnastics can fill in for Dodge is if you declare a Full Defence during your pass (not as an interrupt).
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Dakka Dakka
post Oct 10 2009, 02:17 PM
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QUOTE (Dr Funfrock @ Oct 10 2009, 03:37 PM) *
No, you can't. The only time that Gymnastics can fill in for Dodge is if you declare a Full Defence during your pass (not as an interrupt).
That is wrong:
QUOTE ('SR4A p. 160')
Full defense can be taken as a full dodge, full parry, or gymnastics dodge.
[...]
A character may invoke full defense against an attack at any point in a Combat Turn, so long as the character is not surprised (see p. 165). This means a character does not necessarily need to declare a full defense and take a Complex Action in advance—he can instead declare a full defense when attacked, even if it is not yet his Action Phase in the turn.

Emphasis mine. It does not matter which of the three options the character chooses, all of them can be used as an Interrupt Action. Page 151 of SR4 has the same wording except for the page reference.
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Trench
post Nov 4 2009, 08:27 AM
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On behalf of Brawlers everywhere, I agree with Triggerz about melee defense vs firearms.

I think the point blank modifier would apply vs a melee attacker with a reach of 1 or less.

BTW, there is no penalty for firing into a melee with friendlies, although this is an issue cited in one of the examples. There is a penalty for being in melee and shot at by a third party. Net result - its easier to shoot someone while they are wrestling your friend.

Oh, and Karoline: the reach = meters is from earlier editions. More accurately, a weapon over a foot has a reach of 1, and a weapon over 4 ft has a reach of 2.
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Dakka Dakka
post Nov 4 2009, 08:52 AM
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QUOTE (Trench @ Nov 4 2009, 09:27 AM) *
I think the point blank modifier would apply vs a melee attacker with a reach of 1 or less.
To me a net -1 one is too easy for shooting in melee. Argh I just found out that Point blank is in the SR4A book. It is no longer an optional rule and from now on the Martial Arts advantages make less sense. Firefight has just lost an advantage.

QUOTE (Trench @ Nov 4 2009, 09:27 AM) *
BTW, there is no penalty for firing into a melee with friendlies, although this is an issue cited in one of the examples. There is a penalty for being in melee and shot at by a third party. Net result - its easier to shoot someone while they are wrestling your friend.
Where did you get that from? If a target is in melee and you try to shoot it, it is usually behind cover. Even if your GM does not rule thus Friends in Melee only applies to Melee Attacks.
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Sponge
post Nov 4 2009, 02:30 PM
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QUOTE (Dakka Dakka @ Nov 4 2009, 03:52 AM) *
To me a net -1 one is too easy for shooting in melee. Argh I just found out that Point blank is in the SR4A book. It is no longer an optional rule and from now on the Martial Arts advantages make less sense. Firefight has just lost an advantage.


Lost an advantage how? +2 dice for Firefight is still +2 dice, whether you're getting an extra +2 dice point blank bonus on top of that or not.
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Dakka Dakka
post Nov 4 2009, 02:33 PM
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QUOTE (Sponge @ Nov 4 2009, 03:30 PM) *
Lost an advantage how? +2 dice for Firefight is still +2 dice, whether you're getting an extra +2 dice point blank bonus on top of that or not.
No the advantage reduces the penalty for shooting in melee by one or two. If this penalty is only -1 in the first place the addtional reduction is irrelevant.
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Sponge
post Nov 4 2009, 02:54 PM
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QUOTE (Dakka Dakka @ Nov 4 2009, 09:33 AM) *
No the advantage reduces the penalty for shooting in melee by one or two. If this penalty is only -1 in the first place the addtional reduction is irrelevant.


The penalty is still -3, the point blank bonus is completely separate, it doesn't strictly speaking reduce the penalty.
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Dakka Dakka
post Nov 4 2009, 03:16 PM
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QUOTE (Sponge @ Nov 4 2009, 03:54 PM) *
The penalty is still -3, the point blank bonus is completely separate, it doesn't strictly speaking reduce the penalty.
While this may be true by RAW, i still don't see why logically a more difficult task (Shooting while the target or bystanders try to hinder you) should be easier than a less difficult one(shooting a near target without interference).

If the target was unaware of the attack I'd give the shooter the +2.
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Sponge
post Nov 4 2009, 04:19 PM
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QUOTE (Dakka Dakka @ Nov 4 2009, 10:16 AM) *
While this may be true by RAW, i still don't see why logically a more difficult task (Shooting while the target or bystanders try to hinder you) should be easier than a less difficult one(shooting a near target without interference).


From a logical perspective, your margin of error for aiming as the target moves out of point blank range drops pretty dramatically (consider the angle defined by the lines from the edges of the target to the firing point). If you train specifically to deal with the interference aspect, i.e. by learning Firefight, then it's a net plus to be at point blank range even if the target (or someone else) is engaging you. I don't really see any contradictions here, personally.
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