Can't find that restriction. 6 slots? Nobody needs BF anyway. You can still fire short bursts with FA, the only difference by RAW is that you can't call a shot on a FA short burst.

six slots for weapon modification can be found: Arsenal pg 148. Terminology: "the number of slots
filled by a modification. Weapons have a standard maximum slot value of 6,..."

I meant the restriction that only SS->BF or SA->FA were possible. I know that weapons have six slots, but one Fire Selection Change from SS to FA costs only 4. I was under the impression that Cheshyr wanted to use all six to get BF and FA.

It was just a grammer thing. More vague wording, and I doubt there's a right answer. Depending on how you read it, SS could be linked with BF, and SA to FA.



Either way, it would still be 4, so you'd still have 2 slots left to use for 2 of the 3 other mods you mentioned... unless there's yet another loophole that I missed. Something in my brain says FA Assault Cannons weren't the designers intent... but then again, I'm still coming to terms with the lack of coherency across the entire system.

What the hell is going on hear, didn't this thread start out as a quistion about strength, now it appears to be a debate on gun fireing modes?

It degenerated when we started talking about using Strength to carry heavy weapons and assist with recoil. We should probably get back on track. My bad for the off-topic.

Yup the wording is a bit ambiguous, but I'm usually on the standpoint that everything that isn't explicitly forbidden is allowed.

The shock pad is an accessory as is the gyromount. Only the personalized grip is a modification. 5 of the 6 slots are full. The weapon has 8 points of RC 6 of which can be used to compensate the running modifier, but you only need two of that. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I agree that assault cannons of the Shadowrun type are not intended to be modded and used like this, but it is possible by RAW, and they function a bit more like assault cannons of other systems.

Incorrect. The only time you can fire a Short Burst with a weapon set to Full Auto is when you do not have enough bullets for the normal FA burst.

Also worth noting is that while Burst Fire (aka Short Burst) is limited to BF weapons, Long Bursts are only possible with FA weapons.

Are you sure? SR4A says:



The "above" section the following:



I interpret that as meaning that you can fire short bursts in full-auto mode.

I'd write the same thing but Ranger was quicker. I'd just like to add these passages are identical in SR4.

Heh.

I should emphasize the sentence, "Full-auto weapons can also be used to fire long bursts with a Simple Action or full bursts with a Complex Action." Emphasis on "also". That is to say, they can fire short bursts, and they can also fire long bursts or full bursts.

Furthermore, what stops you firing only one bullet more than is in a short burst?

Unfortunately the rules. FA can only fire the clearly defined short, long and full bursts. The only way to change the number of bullets is to have a nearly empty magazine.

I would have preferred to rule the FA mode in the following way:

In FA you can fire up to 10 bullets in an action phase. Up to 3 rounds is considered a short burst and takes a simple action, up to 6 rounds is a long burst taking a simple action as well but only one such action may be performed and up to 10 as a full burst for a complex action.

The drawbacks and benefits of this are the following:
Each round fired in an action phase after the first adds -1 because of recoil, which of course can be compensated with RC. e.g. 4 shots in the first simple action and 2 shots in the second result in -3 in the first action and -5 in the second.

Each bullet after the first in an action(simple or complex) either adds +1 to the DV or -1 to the defense test. In the above example the first burst would give +3DV or-3 Defense and the second one +1DV or -1 Defense.

BF works in the same way with the difference that the number of shots is limited to exactly three.

This is the SR3 rule, except that in SR3 the FA mode always takes a complex action, even for 3 bullets. It must have been considered too complicated for SR4.

I had apparently missed the "also", interpreting it as the passage above refering to rules on narrow vs. wide, & not enough bullets.

This is something I will have to house rule - otherwise, what is the point of having a weapon capable of Burst Fire and Full Auto, when FA makes BF redundant (note upgrading to BF & to FA cost the same mod slots, and numerous weapons have both fire modes listed).

I particularly liked my troll archer with Strength 15 and a rating 15 bow. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smokin.gif)

Then they changed the rules in 4A. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/question.gif)

15 is bullshit, you can get it up even higher, if you're REALLY trying ^^
i think i got it up to 20 once, through all kinds of little loopholes . . THAT was some silly Stuff i could do O.o
Basically, throw Cars and the such. And with STR+4 + STR/2=34M Damage with Hand Blades it got even more ridicoulous *snickers*

So far, the most helpful thing for me I've seen in this thread so far is the house rule about using STR and BOD together to determine the amount of armour a character can carry. It makes good sense.

as far as the rules, there is no point, however in actuality there is a difference in how the weapon functions. FA = hold trigger down and it keeps shooting until you let off or run out of ammo, BF = shoot three bullets (unless there are less bullets in the gun) with a single trigger pull and if you hold it down it doesnt shoot additional bullets until you let up and press the trigger again.

As far as the rules are concerned there is a difference. With a short( 3 round) Burst in FA mode you cannot call a shot. That is only possible in BF, weird as this sounds. And yes, BF is not really necessary. IRL there are several automatic weapons that only have SA/FA.

Er, are you talking about third edition? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/indifferent.gif)

Just combine STR and body. STR is a waste of space stat in future games.

Why yes, yes i am, indeed O.o