Hey there, another newbie question.
Why does Titanium Bone Lacing do so much damage? I mean, it's okay that it does more than a bog standard hand strike, but it's actually better than most melee weapons! Is there any justification for that?

It seems like they kept the old damage codes, which were a bit more balanced in past editions because reach (provided by most melee weapons) was so useful. It does seem a bit silly to me that it does so much dmage, and physcial damage to boot. Clubs do stun damage- so a steak wrapped around an alimumum baseball bat does stun, right? And yet aluminum bone lacing does (more) physcial damage? No mater how tough your bones are, punching something like a vehicle is gonna wreck the flesh on your hand before it does much to the vehicle.

There is reach in SR4 too. It may not be that much of a fight decider but it is still there.
In SR4 Clubs do Physical damage. As do cyberlimbs since SR4A.That you can no longer do Stun damage besides by subduing is more of a problem IMHO.
Yeah and you should have hit locations and more realistic diving rules etc. Those are just considerations to make the game more playable and fun at the expense of "realism".

BTW What Edition are you talking about?

Sorry, I was talking about SR4 and for my char it's a problem to NOT kill an opponent.

That you can do with bare hands as well. Just punch him until both Condition Monitors are full

My assumption is that it involves striking using the strong bone points - the places you see martial artists using to break boards. Hand-edges. Elbows. Palm-heels. Heels. Knees. Etc. If regular (trained) humans can break cinderblocks with unaugmented bones, without seriously damaging their skin, it makes perfect sense to me that an augmented one can break through tougher stuff the same way.

A finger jab with titanium laced bones would be pretty terrifying. The main reason people don't use their fingers in hand to hand combat is due to the ease of breaking them. Without that risk, they're very useful damage delivery systems. You can focus your energy and momentum into a very small point and do a lot of damage that way since the force is not going to be diffused as much as say a punch with a closed fist.

At Strength 9 you should be dealing what, 7~8 P? Oh, right - net hits.

Ask your GM to allow you to 'pull' your punches and strike with less then your maximum Strength. I can't see any logical or game balance reason why that wouldn't be allowed.

Alternately, you could talk to your GM about allowing you to use a Called Shot to deal Stun instead of Physical - this is bending the rules a little more, but if you can take a penalty to deal more damage with a Called Shot, it seems plausible that the reverse might be true.

Barring an agreeable GM, though, it looks like you may have built a guy who just rips people apart. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) As build errors go, that's pretty hilarious. I like that your guy gets more dangerous when he drops his gun.

Wow... Maybe I should consider that tactic with my next PhysAd. Then again, my friend had a physad, and if she didn't want to kill you, she'd use her shotgun. xD

Unless the PhysAd has bone lacing he can do stun damage anytime. he can even use most of the damage enhancing powers.

eh Ti bones wouldnt help too much without muscle to back it up in the fingers. the bone in most peoples fingers is plenty strong enough to survive a hefty blow, the problem most people have is not breaking them, but huring the connective tissue and muscles in them. I'm not sure what that should mean in game terms, just throwen it out there.

Have you considered just picking up some Shock Gloves? Those do stun, and use your unarmed skill, and since you're not really punching with them as much as just touchtazing them, I'm pretty sure the bone lacing won't affect those attacks.

That's actually the first explanation I've ever seen that makes sense, regarding the extra damage of bone lacing. I've broken bones in my hands during a fistfight (some of the thicker parts of the skull are not good things to punch), and now I'm imagining that same hit backed with metal. Might have changed the results a bit... skull fractures are hard to shake off. Also a good way to end up in jail...

just curious but which bones? the ones that line up with the big knuckles? or the 2 that line up with the little knuckles (the pinky and the one next to it)?

Actually, that's just what happened. This is my first venture into Shadowrun and I wanted a big strong Troll that knocks people out. What I got was a big strong Troll that CRUSHES PEOPLE'S HEADS. My GM and I agreed that Farmboy could have padded training gloves that would turn his hand damage into stun, but sometimes there's just noch enough time to put them on or I simply forget to do so.
Oh, and I do 10P + net hits...
I like the idea with the called shot! Let's see what my GM says to that.

You could also use shock gloves and leave them on (no fingerprints) or wear clothing with those ridiculous shock frills. Subdual is also an option as it always does Stun damage but this takes time.

Pulling punches is a good idea IMHO. Maybe -1 die for each +1 the bone lacing confers. If the bonus is reduced to 0 the whole damage is considered stun.

The first level of bone enhancements confers no bonus, but just turns damage into P.

Then maybe -1 per level of bone density/bone lacing?
So it can be -1 for cyberlimbs as well.

And on this note (and I apologize for the thread-jacking, but it seems like a good place to ask) why the heck are bone lacings F on availability? A smartlink system (only used for shooting guns) is R, but bone lacing, which a lot of people would have perfectly legal and legitimate uses for (athletes for example), is F????????

Second question, does the above question end with too many question marks? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Another idea would be to allow each net hit to either Add or Subtract a point of damage.

Probably doesn't go a far as you like, but it might be in the right direction.

(But I agree; just wear shock gloves. Touch (e) attacks ftw.)

I dunno about those shock gloves. A huge lumbering Troll should be punching, not shocking...

Why do athletes have perfectly legal and legitimate uses for crushing each other's bones?

You don't end up with accidental broken bones in sports, when you're impersonating Wolverine.

Just deaths from internal bleeding from all the Physical damage.

You mean from running into people with Bone Lacing? Yup. Pads of the future aren't meant to protect you; they are meant to protect others from you. (So actually not all that different than today.)

Don't forget: athletes of the future will be better, more restrained individuals. (Because punching a guy out will be assualt with a deadly weapon.)