 Help Wanted, I am apparently FAIL at character creation... tips plz! |
  |
 Feb 11 2010, 03:59 AM
Post
#1
|
|
|
Target  Group: Members Posts: 17 Joined: 7-February 10 Member No.: 18,122  |
Ok so after numerous trial and error sessions with making characters... I cant find a build that I like that fits the character... So here's the deal. If the concept is an Orc Ex-Corporate Troubleshooter (possibly from Seraphim) How do I build him? The areas I want him to excel in are duel wielding pistols, using Muy Thai... and have some social skills... how do i make this work without it seeming like hes weak sauce? I am fairly new to this, so any and all help would be appreciated.
This post has been edited by Deadpool: Feb 11 2010, 04:00 AM |
 |
 
|
|
Feb 11 2010, 04:12 AM
Post
#2
|
|
|
Runner Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,946 Joined: 1-June 09 From: Omaha Member No.: 17,234 |
Well others might be better to advise on this sort of thing. Adepts can be good with the social skills through some of their powers and can get things like improved ability piistols or the like. Advantages like first impression can also help with the social skills.
|
|
|
|
|
Feb 11 2010, 04:29 AM
Post
#3
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 419 Joined: 10-February 09 Member No.: 16,863 |
It might be a little tough to build a character who's both good at duel wielding pistols and unarmed combat. Not impossible, just difficult. I'm assuming you're going the cybered direction with this? I would definetly suggest cyberarms to any duel wielder. Cyberarm slide, cyberarm gyromount, cheap agility bonuses, these are all your friends. Plus cyberarms automatically make your melee attacks deal physical damage.
I'd also suggest using automatic pistols rather than heavy, you can get pretty significant damage from them by modifying them up to Full Auto weapons and can generally compensate for the recoil of long bursts pretty easily (again, cyberarm gyromount is your friend, although not your only option if you'd prefer to save those arm slots for some other toys or stats). It is, unfortunately, impossible to Full Auto Burst with 2 weapons at the same time, but 2 short bursts and 2 long bursts on a target in one IP will make your enemies hurt. I also like stick n' shock rounds in my automatic pistols, most autos can't get up to 6 damage on their own, and stunning your enemies with electric damage is always useful, especially if you don't always one shot them. On the topic of martial arts, I know there's plenty of room for abuse there for a creative player. Hardliner gloves, boxing/muay thati bonuses, martial arts specialization, maybe take something from one of the Gun Fu practices to decrease your firing from melee penalties and you should be fine. Your skills are a little spread out, but if you want social skills, I wouldn't suggest bothering with anything except negotiation, intimidation, and con, and 1 point with a specialization is probably good enough so long as you aren't the party's main face and your charisma isn't god awful. |
|
|
|
|
Feb 11 2010, 04:33 AM
Post
#4
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 557 Joined: 26-July 09 From: Kent, WA Member No.: 17,426 |
First tip: Make sure you have a concept you're going to enjoy playing. A guy with weak dice pools can still be a better time then a two-dimensional powerhouse.
I'd ask around at the table to see if there are any areas the group is lacking in; If the team needs firepower, focus on your guns, but if the team has nobody with any social skills you might want to work on that smooth operator idea. Remember, if there is a challenge that only your guy has the skills to complete, he's the hero. Maybe just for a minute, but he just saved the collective bacon of the whole group, and he's the hero. It doesn't have to be your whole character concept, either, but maybe a few points in opening locks, driving cars, using disguises or corporate procedures will be the difference between getting payed by Mr. Johnson and getting payed by your life insurance provider. It sounds like you're building a Samurai character. If you're expecting to be dangerous in combat, the first thing you want is some sort of wired reflex package. Extra IPs are the difference between the quick and the dead, and a huge force multiplier. Bone lacing is a pretty effective upgrade in combat - you get a bigger pool to soak damage and you can kill with your bare hands as well. Agility is going to be critical for delivering damage to the enemy, and Body will let you wear more armor and take more punishment. Reaction is another stat you probably want to put some points into - it affects your ability to dodge attacks and your order in Initiative. Some Wired Reflex packages allow you to tack on Reaction Enhancers - probably worth doing. One build I keep meaning to try out is the 8-point Edge character. A Human with the Lucky quality (and nearly nothing else) could rack up 8 bonus dice that he could add 8 times during the adventure, on any skill he could default on. A pool of six on that pistol shot? Make it 14 with exploding sixes! The guy would be nearly as poor as a mage without any actual magic, but I'm still curious to try him out. |
|
|
|
|
Feb 11 2010, 04:44 AM
Post
#5
|
|
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 61 Joined: 24-January 10 From: Lurking about the Lagrange 5 point. Member No.: 18,070 |
For best results, you might want to provide some more info. You've picked a metatype and a general theme, but what anyone here needs to help you is at minimum a couple of answers; what books are allowed, is there any material your GM has called off limits, and whats the Build Point limit?
|
|
|
|
|
Feb 11 2010, 04:47 AM
Post
#6
|
|
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 17 Joined: 7-February 10 Member No.: 18,122 |
400 points, augmentation,street magic, runners companion, if its printed, its legit.
|
|
|
|
|
Feb 11 2010, 04:51 AM
Post
#7
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 560 Joined: 4-March 06 From: Pueblo Corporate Council Member No.: 8,332 |
Why do you feel your other attempts failed? What was wrong with them?
|
|
|
|
|
Feb 11 2010, 04:53 AM
Post
#8
|
|
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 17 Joined: 7-February 10 Member No.: 18,122 |
wish I knew how to put into words... just a feeling that I could be doing this better ><
|
|
|
|
|
Feb 11 2010, 05:00 AM
Post
#9
|
|
|
Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,782 Joined: 28-August 09 Member No.: 17,566 |
Post what you've got so far - it helps if we're able to see what you're thinking, what works and what doesn't - if we've got something to work with.
|
|
|
|
|
Feb 11 2010, 05:23 AM
Post
#10
|
|
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 17 Joined: 7-February 10 Member No.: 18,122 |
This was my latest attempt... Sorry if its not very good >< Tried to work off what ive read other people doing...
Body: 6 Charisma: 6 [6] Edge: 1 Agility: 5 [7] Intuition: 3 Initiative: 10 Reaction: 5 [7] Logic: 5 [5] Passes: 3 Strength: 3 [5] Willpower: 3 Essence: 1 "Cyber/Bioware: Wired Reflexes II Bone Density Augmentation (4) Muscle Augmentation (1-4) 2 Muscle Toner (1-4) 2 Enhanced Phermone Receptors (3) Tailored Pheromones (1-3) 3 Cerebral Booster (1-3) 2 "Ambidextrous Martial Arts (2) Muy Thai / Fire Fight Born Rich Records on File SINner (Standard) Thrill Seeker Distinctive Style (2) Prejudiced (Specific, Biased) Low-Light Vision "Athletics (Group) 3 Influence (Group) 3 Armorer 3 Pistols (Heavy Pistols) 5(+2) Unarmed Combat (Muy Thai) 5 (+2) Dodge (Range) 3 (+2) Perception 3 "Corp (Ares Macrotechnology) 2 Corp (Security Companies) 2 Hangouts (Safehouses) 2 Design (Firearms) 2 Comic Books 2 Celtic N (hes Irish) English 2 French 2 Or'zet 2 Weapons/armor not all fleshed out yet |
|
|
|
|
Feb 11 2010, 05:25 AM
Post
#11
|
|
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 17 Joined: 7-February 10 Member No.: 18,122 |
Also has an Ares Fixer Contact at 4/4 and a Mr. Johnson at 2/3
|
|
|
|
|
Feb 11 2010, 05:52 AM
Post
#12
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 144 Joined: 27-November 09 From: Los Angeles, PCC Member No.: 17,905 |
Couple of things I see...
Dump the Cerebral Booster, you don't need your logic to be that high. Your Ranged Dodge specialization is going to be useless against firearms, since you only use your raw reaction unless you are in Full Defense. Forget about the dual pistols thing. Seriously. Unless you're firing them one at a time and you're doing it to not run out of ammo as quickly. Since you split your pool when you fire with both, your effectiveness goes down exponentially. Trust me on this. As it stands, though, its a pretty good build. You're a damn good face that the team doesn't have to worry about backing up when the lead starts flying. The only thing that strikes me as odd is your choice of languages and knowledges. No one speaks Celtic, save a few dandelion eaters in the Tir. Working for CATCo, your French (and specifically your Quebecois) had better be a hell of a lot better, especially if you were troubleshooting. Any corporate troubleshooter had better also know most or all of their rival Megacorp's national languages: English Japanese Cantonese Russian Aztlaner Spanish (maybe even Nahuatl) German Figure out who your character specialized in while employed and go from there. I'm guessing you've already decided that you transitioned to Ares when Knight bought out CATCo after Cross was killed. |
|
|
|
|
Feb 11 2010, 05:59 AM
Post
#13
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 109 Joined: 5-April 09 From: North DFW Area Member No.: 17,052 |
Athletics is a crappy skill group. Break it up into what you actually need.
Your stats are screwed up all weird, I can't even figure out what race he is. First off, Ork is the most point efficient for what you are trying to do, Dwarf second, troll third, human forth elf fifth. Second, you can't have two sixes in stats, and you also shouldn't want to. You can build a solid stat block for what you want to do, including race for around 160 points, but considering the spread, you could stretch it to 200. Qualities: Born rich is a terrible quality unless you are going for an epic gimmick. You are better off just making better spending choices. Warez: Drop the cerebral boosters, they are expensive and bad. Take skill group support bioware and such. Lemme give you a few semi-similar builds I have lying around for some inspiration. Pistols/Face [ Spoiler ] Fist Based Assasin [ Spoiler ] All Purpose Gunner [ Spoiler ] Chrome Ninja [ Spoiler ] Perfect Gunslinger [ Spoiler ] Hope that helps. |
|
|
|
|
Feb 11 2010, 06:20 AM
Post
#14
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 695 Joined: 21-March 09 Member No.: 17,002 |
..orc w/cha 6??didn't orc metatype have max unaugmented cha 5??
Drop 2 pistol style (changes to even hit something drop) Bilngual-quality (from Runner's Companion) Colt Goverment 2066 (500 yen) (electronic firing in base gun) Internal Smartgun System (500yen) Silencer (400 yen) (internal/removable,your choice) + Improved range finder ( ? no books w/ me now..Arsenal) cheaper than building similar from Ares Predator IV,negative side is -1 round (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) |
|
|
|
|
Feb 11 2010, 06:39 AM
Post
#15
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 695 Joined: 21-March 09 Member No.: 17,002 |
QUOTE (overcannon @ Feb 11 2010, 07:59 AM)  Athletics is a crappy skill group. Break it up into what you actually need. Your stats are screwed up all weird, I can't even figure out what race he is. First off, Ork is the most point efficient for what you are trying to do, Dwarf second, troll third, human forth elf fifth. Second, you can't have two sixes in stats, and you also shouldn't want to. You can build a solid stat block for what you want to do, including race for around 160 points, but considering the spread, you could stretch it to 200. Qualities: Born rich is a terrible quality unless you are going for an epic gimmick. You are better off just making better spending choices. Warez: Drop the cerebral boosters, they are expensive and bad. Take skill group support bioware and such. Lemme give you a few semi-similar builds I have lying around for some inspiration. Pistols/Face [ Spoiler ] Fist Based Assasin [ Spoiler ] All Purpose Gunner [ Spoiler ] Chrome Ninja [ Spoiler ] Perfect Gunslinger [ Spoiler ] Hope that helps. 2 6's rule apply skills, not ability scores.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) |
|
|
|
|
Feb 11 2010, 08:28 AM
Post
#16
|
|
|
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,116 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,449 |
QUOTE (MikeKozar @ Feb 10 2010, 08:33 PM) One build I keep meaning to try out is the 8-point Edge character. A Human with the Lucky quality (and nearly nothing else) could rack up 8 bonus dice that he could add 8 times during the adventure, on any skill he could default on. A pool of six on that pistol shot? Make it 14 with exploding sixes! The guy would be nearly as poor as a mage without any actual magic, but I'm still curious to try him out. But why limit such a character to "nearly nothing else"? You can make a decent combat type who has a high Edge. Cain's build had something like 18 dice in pistols. QUOTE (Stingray @ Feb 10 2010, 10:39 PM) 2 6's rule apply skills, not ability scores.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) You can only hard max one of your base Attributes at char-gen. So he would be right... for a human. An ork with Body, Strength, and Willpower scores of 6 would be fine, though, since only the Willpower would be at the maximum. |
|
|
|
|
Feb 11 2010, 09:02 AM
Post
#17
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 419 Joined: 10-February 09 Member No.: 16,863 |
QUOTE (Stingray @ Feb 11 2010, 01:39 AM) 2 6's rule apply skills, not ability scores.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) No, he's right and you're quite wrong, although it's not 6s its maxes (6s would mean that a troll couldn't raise both its str and bod above minimum at chargen). Skills don't have a limiter on them at chargen, although having 2 at 6 would be a little weird. |
|
|
|
|
Feb 11 2010, 09:33 AM
Post
#18
|
|
|
Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,782 Joined: 28-August 09 Member No.: 17,566 |
out of curiosity, would it be easier to move the cyberware to adept powers? Pheremone stuff -> kinestics and other face/adept powers. tack on adept improved reflexes, and use a point of essence for muscle toner/aug and bone density? With all that bioware, perhaps a datajack with skinlink or smartlink for his guns. Even if you don't get the bonus while dual wielding, it still turns some actions into free actions.
If you're looking to save points on your logic skills by taking low skills, and a higher augmented logic, use PuSHeD EPE out of augmentation instead. It'll do what you want, but cheaper. Your man needs a commlink. And a commlink he can throw away. Also a ride. I've been liking the Entertainment Systems Cyclops with a single smartwheel out of Arsenal. Its got handling 5, a low Signature cause its electric powered, and you can take it apart and shove it in a locker. I've started including one with a suit of bike armor in my Drop Everything And Run bags. Ares Light Fire 70's with stick and shocks and the special silencer are pretty good. |
|
|
|
|
Feb 11 2010, 09:40 AM
Post
#19
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 212 Joined: 17-January 10 From: Sweden Member No.: 18,046 |
QUOTE (Patrick the Gnome @ Feb 11 2010, 10:02 AM) No, he's right and you're quite wrong, although it's not 6s its maxes (6s would mean that a troll couldn't raise both its str and bod above minimum at chargen). Skills don't have a limiter on them at chargen, although having 2 at 6 would be a little weird. The sr4A book says (about active skills), page 86: Te maximum skill rating for starting characters is either one skill at Rating 6 (with the rest at Rating 4 or less) or two skills at Rating 5 (with the rest at Rating 4 or less). Your character cannot start with both one Rating 6 skill and two Rating 5 skills. |
|
|
|
|
Feb 11 2010, 09:53 AM
Post
#20
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 695 Joined: 21-March 09 Member No.: 17,002 |
QUOTE (Surukai @ Feb 11 2010, 11:40 AM) The sr4A book says (about active skills), page 86: Te maximum skill rating for starting characters is either one skill at Rating 6 (with the rest at Rating 4 or less) or two skills at Rating 5 (with the rest at Rating 4 or less). Your character cannot start with both one Rating 6 skill and two Rating 5 skills. exactly my point... |
|
|
|
|
Feb 11 2010, 11:22 AM
Post
#21
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 132 Joined: 30-January 08 Member No.: 15,579 |
I keep seeing references to Improved Reflexes costing only 2.5 PP's. Where is this? In my copy of SR4E, it shows 3 PP's.
|
|
|
|
|
Feb 11 2010, 11:26 AM
Post
#22
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 695 Joined: 21-March 09 Member No.: 17,002 |
QUOTE (Brol_The_Mighty @ Feb 11 2010, 01:22 PM) I keep seeing references to Improved Reflexes costing only 2.5 PP's. Where is this? In my copy of SR4E, it shows 3 PP's. in SR4A cost is 2,5 pp |
|
|
|
|
Feb 11 2010, 12:53 PM
Post
#23
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 132 Joined: 30-January 08 Member No.: 15,579 |
Ooooh, 4A, gotcha. Gotta get me that I guess.
|
|
|
|
|
Feb 12 2010, 03:00 AM
Post
#24
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 560 Joined: 4-March 06 From: Pueblo Corporate Council Member No.: 8,332 |
I don't see anything glaring, except maybe that you're trying to do three things. Two things is fine (unless you're a mage). I recommend face/unarmed combat guy. Drop the two-pistols thing (keep the one pistol).
Edge 1 is... not good. Pick any attribute. Could you see yourself walking around with a 1 in that att? I didn't think so. Edge is just as important as any other att. Are those stats accurate? I see a couple of mistakes, but you should only have 200 points (unless your GM allows more, which I don't really recommend, except for certain builds, since that takes away too many points from skills and such). For 'ware, I would drop the cerebral booster. I think bone density is questionable (unless you're planning on going hand-to-hand with drones). I much prefer orthoskin. (Or drop both, and the wires, and get synaptic accelerator 1? Just a thought.) Low light vision is nice, but you can easily buy glasses/goggles, or cyber eyes, for that matter. What did you use Born Rich for? Ten build points is a lot, especially when you're just using it so you can spend even more BPs on gear. Drop that, and you get 20BP for skills. If Born Rich is just for flavor, you can still have been born rich, just without the rather limited game mechanics. Dodge (Ranged) is fine. You're not a ranged combat monster, so you'll probably going to be running for cover more than most people. You could occasionally end up over your head in melee combat, and need to maintain until you can get help, so three dice is not unreasonable. Athletics group 3 might be overkill. Every shadowrunner should have it at 1, maybe 2. Why do you have armorer? I don't see a use for that. A language skill at 2, means you have difficulty communicating. Your GM could require a roll any time something is discussed that's more complex than basic, daily life stuff. Infiltration is pretty important. It's right up there with Perception. With a face build, having 3's for CHA skills is just a little on the low side. You might consider raising the group to 4, if you can scrounge the points. You might like an intimidation skill. You look reasonable in melee, and deficient in firefights. That deficiency isn't necessarily a big deal, if your team can deal with that, and you make up for it in other areas. Like negotiating sweet deals for them, and talking their way past guards. There is nothing wrong with the things that I recommended you drop. It's just that as a starting character, you need to be very stingy with your points, and many of these things are not absolutely essential. Work you way up to them. |
|
|
|
|
Feb 12 2010, 03:11 AM
Post
#25
|
|
|
Prime Runner Ascendant Group: Members Posts: 17,568 Joined: 26-March 09 From: Aurora, Colorado Member No.: 17,022 |
QUOTE (wind_in_the_stones @ Feb 11 2010, 08:00 PM) Essence 1 is... not good. Pick any attribute. Could you see yourself walking around with a 1 in that att? I didn't think so. Essence is just as important as any other att. Are those stats accurate? I see a couple of mistakes, but you should only have 200 points (unless your GM allows more, which I don't really recommend, except for certain builds, since that takes away too many points from skills and such). Maybe I am missing something here, but WHY exactly is Essence of 1 or less a bad thing? Essence is NOT just as important as any other attribute... it functions as a limiter for game balance purposes only... For all intents and purposes, it has no mechanical effect other than to cap 'Ware... I am curious as to why you think that Essence is so important... keep the Faith |
|
|
|
|
|
Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 6th June 2025 - 01:29 AM |
Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.