You buy a quality that changes the action cost of a single action. There is nothing about "sense" here - balancing, maybe.

It is, in Shadowrun.

I see that now...It's dumb, but it's there.

Whaddyaknow; sometimes RAW doesn't make sense.

Thanks for assuming I was lying instead of just looking something up, though. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wavey.gif)

Not lying, just wrong.

Now I think that of you AND the book. It's not personal.

How to win friends and influence others as written by Creel... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif)

True to your name, a cut clean to the bone!

I brought the Krav Maga up to my GM and he said..

"Yeah well look at what it says under the Martial Arts description.. specifically:"



So RAW states you can only use this for melee combat. You can use the "reduce the ranged combat “attacker in melee combat” modifier by 1." for guns and ranged weapons because it specifically says that, but other than that, almost all these bonuses are added and dealt with only to melee combat.

What's this?





Yeah. Krav Maga totally only applies to melee combat. You can't Take Aim in melee and Ready Weapon applies to all weapons, good luck justifying "melee only."

No. RAW states you can use this for melee combat. There's no "only", or any other kind of exclusivity, prohibiting that some of those can also be used in non-melee combat. There are exceptions, you know?

What's more interesting is the fact that using that rationale, it would allow you to use Take Aim in melee combat.

Besides, gun-based martial arts is rad.

See: FireFight.

Note to self: triple-check language next time, double obviously isn't cutting the mustard.

While the write-up for the Martial Arts quality does indeed specify that the bonuses are for melee combat, it should be equally apparent that this is a general statement and not a strict rule. Kiai, for example, provides a bonus on using the Intimidation skill; Ninjitsu ditto on Infiltration; Pentjak-Silat provides a damage bonus for Astral Combat; and Krav Maga lets you Take Aim as a free action.

Most of the advantages specified in the Martial Arts write-ups are sufficiently explicit to melee combat (or dodging/defense) that the potential for abuse is relatively limited. And, frankly, if you as a sniper want to learn Wild Cat and Pentjak-Silat to improve your Called Shots, talk to your gamemaster. I don't have a problem with it.

Yeah, but firefight just trains a person on how to keep their guns free in a scrap, not how to shoot somebody in their squishy parts like some kind of gun ninja.

It seems a gun-ninja has to be an MMA fighter.
Krav-maga + Firefight + Wildcat = Equilibrium

Plus, uh, a Pistols skill.

It seems I have been proven wrong. But honestly.. Krav Maga by itself deals so little with guns. I would almost be tempted to swap those abilities with Firefight, because they just don't make sense as Krav Maga.

Well yea that was always my complaint, the little it deals witht hem seemed so amazing especially when put up next to firefight, a martial art supposedly all about gunplay.

Yeah, I am definately putting that ability in Firefight, and removing it from Krav Maga.

Krav Maga as part of the Israeli basic training has nothing to do with guns. The basic training of the army does though. They are not one and the same.

Its like when you go into the army and learn judo or grappling, part of that hand to hand combat isn't with guns. You learn seperately how to use guns in ranged combat, and close quarters. They are seperate entities.

I asked my friend who has been in Krav Maga for about 5 years, if he ever learned about guns. His response?

So your friend is a traveler trough time & dimension, from the Sixth World @2070?

Because we all know that the curriculum of eclectic martial arts never changes. Ever. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sarcastic.gif)

My Kung Fu training hasn't changed in 200 years of being taught. The only exception is how to remove a pistol from someones hands added in.

I seriously doubt in 60 years the future Kung Fu or Krav Maga teachers will be like.. "So lets introduce guns".

Thats what "Firefight" is for. Basically GunKata from Equilibrium.


I can't say for certain what martial arts would look like in the future, but since every single martial arts as described in the book is pretty much the same as today? I can't believe they just added bunches of fluff to just one?

But hey.. thats just me. Now if the title of the martial arts school was "Israeli Basic Training" then I'd say sure, let the guns stay in. But Krav Maga as a hand to hand martial art, doesn't focus on shooting or using guns.

I am just having touble figuring out how to do the "I disarm you and now I am holdling your Weapon and am are pointing it at you!" Move
I know the rules for disarming

Arsenal says it does in SR4, so it does.

In the variations I know, it normally ends with the other guy's trigger finger bent the wrong way thanks to a trigger guard, after lots of footwork to move you off the line of fire, and you using two hands to the other guys' one. I'm sure there's lots of other ways to get it done, though.

And we all still got hit more than half the time, trying it, with airsofts (minus their trigger guards)...but, then, none of us are Shadowrunner-scale experts.

Chris Tucker & Jackie Chan in "Rush Hour". There's a scene where Lee (Chan) teaches Carter (Tucker) a move to disarm someone with a pistol and ultimately be holding it on the former owner ready to use.

I should have been more clear
What is the game mechanic for this move