IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

2 Pages V  < 1 2  
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> Dual nature dice penalty and Adept power Multi-tTasking, does the latter overcome the former
Muspellsheimr
post Apr 1 2010, 05:55 PM
Post #26


Neophyte Runner
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 2,336
Joined: 24-February 08
From: Albuquerque, New Mexico
Member No.: 15,706



QUOTE (darthmord @ Apr 1 2010, 10:58 AM) *
The metamagic as described works much like the metaplanar shortcut except the starting point is the plane of origin for humanity (the physical).

To clarify: No, it doesn't. The Metaplanar Shortcut involves a Complex Action to enter a metaplane, & another Complex Action to return at any location you have been to before. The metamagic does not allow that - it allows you to travel through Astral Space, functioning like Astral Projection, except you do not leave behind any "shoes", & instead of Manifesting, you return your body to the Physical plane.

The travel is not in any way instantaneous, but can be very fast (5km per Combat Turn 'running', 100m 'walking'), and does not allow you to bypass barriers the way the Metaplanar Shortcut does - to enter a ward, you have to have access to it as normal (created, on the accepted list, Masking, or forcing your way through).
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
pbangarth
post Apr 1 2010, 08:35 PM
Post #27


Old Man of the North
**********

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 10,189
Joined: 14-August 03
From: Just north of the Centre of the Universe
Member No.: 5,463



QUOTE (Dr. Funkenstein @ Apr 1 2010, 01:46 AM) *
Additionally -- also once again -- it is not Sorcery, which is the only place the rule exists
The quote from page 10 of Street Magic talks about Magic, not just Sorcery.

QUOTE
In fact, nearly every single spirit in the game does it one way or another. But by your logic, that can't be.
This is different from what spirits do. Spirits are not corporeal... all the Materialization power does is project the spiritual entity into the Physical plane. This metamagic takes physical matter, converts it to astral matter, and reconverts it at the end to physical matter.

The arguments about the time it takes and so on making it not the same as teleportation, and about precedent among special immortals etc. are worth considering.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Muspellsheimr
post Apr 1 2010, 08:49 PM
Post #28


Neophyte Runner
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 2,336
Joined: 24-February 08
From: Albuquerque, New Mexico
Member No.: 15,706



QUOTE (pbangarth @ Apr 1 2010, 01:35 PM) *
The quote from page 10 of Street Magic talks about Magic, not just Sorcery.

The quote from page 10 is also from a fluff section. It contains no actual mechanics or rules for gameplay, and such fluff sections do intentionally contain false data on occasion.

The quote from page 10 has no relevance whatsoever to if something is allowed or not mechanically.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
pbangarth
post Apr 1 2010, 08:58 PM
Post #29


Old Man of the North
**********

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 10,189
Joined: 14-August 03
From: Just north of the Centre of the Universe
Member No.: 5,463



QUOTE (Muspellsheimr @ Apr 1 2010, 02:49 PM) *
The quote from page 10 is also from a fluff section. It contains no actual mechanics or rules for gameplay, and such fluff sections do intentionally contain false data on occasion.
The existence of Seattle is not mentioned in the mechanics sections, either. Does it therefore not exist?

The elements of Newtonian physics are not described in the rules, either. Does that mean they don't apply?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Muspellsheimr
post Apr 1 2010, 09:07 PM
Post #30


Neophyte Runner
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 2,336
Joined: 24-February 08
From: Albuquerque, New Mexico
Member No.: 15,706



QUOTE (Muspellsheimr @ Apr 1 2010, 02:03 PM) *
No. If there are no rules, there are no mechanical effects.

There are no rules for wiping your ass. Wiping your ass has no mechanical effect.


Lack of rules means there is no mechanical effect. Seattle does not exist in the rules of the game (outside Knowledge skills), & so has no mechanical impact on the game (outside Knowledge skills).

The limitations of Sorcery is the mechanical effect of the described limitations of magic. It affects spellcasting. It does not affect other forms of magic.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
darthmord
post Apr 1 2010, 09:25 PM
Post #31


Running Target
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,245
Joined: 27-April 07
From: Running the streets of Southeast Virginia
Member No.: 11,548



QUOTE (Muspellsheimr @ Apr 1 2010, 01:55 PM) *
To clarify: No, it doesn't. The Metaplanar Shortcut involves a Complex Action to enter a metaplane, & another Complex Action to return at any location you have been to before. The metamagic does not allow that - it allows you to travel through Astral Space, functioning like Astral Projection, except you do not leave behind any "shoes", & instead of Manifesting, you return your body to the Physical plane.

The travel is not in any way instantaneous, but can be very fast (5km per Combat Turn 'running', 100m 'walking'), and does not allow you to bypass barriers the way the Metaplanar Shortcut does - to enter a ward, you have to have access to it as normal (created, on the accepted list, Masking, or forcing your way through).


I get you. I misspoke and was not precise enough. But the basic premise is there. You end up moving rather fast between here and there.

I guess in that vein it has more in common with the Movement Power rather than Metaplanar Shortcut except that it also involves the Astral as well. Doesn't sound broken. I would still lean toward upping the cost slightly. But if it has a pre-req metamagic, then the cost may not be low as originally thought.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Muspellsheimr
post Apr 1 2010, 09:54 PM
Post #32


Neophyte Runner
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 2,336
Joined: 24-February 08
From: Albuquerque, New Mexico
Member No.: 15,706



The biggest issue with it, from a balance perspective, is giving you the ability to travel through physical walls, but it forces you to deal with astral barriers instead. It's also pretty powerful in a defensive aspect if the opposition doesn't have astral support, but similar "get out" abilities can be obtained through spells &/or spirits, just not quite as effective (but again, doesn't have to deal with astral support).
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Shinobi Killfist
post Apr 1 2010, 10:14 PM
Post #33


Neophyte Runner
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 2,431
Joined: 3-December 03
Member No.: 5,872



Just curious, what happens to your mundane gear?

I can see your focuses etc. going with you, but does your SMG and your lined coat?

I don't think its a big deal either way, just not sure what your metamagic is designed to do.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Muspellsheimr
post Apr 1 2010, 10:23 PM
Post #34


Neophyte Runner
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 2,336
Joined: 24-February 08
From: Albuquerque, New Mexico
Member No.: 15,706



QUOTE (Muspellsheimr @ Mar 31 2010, 04:38 PM) *
Also on the subject of Astral Shift (along with the Shift & Mist Form powers), we have a rule that a character altering their form may attempt a Magic + Charisma (Object Resistance) test against each object in their possession (they must be carrying/holding/wearing the object, simply touching it is not sufficient). If successful, the object melds with their new form, becoming nonfunctional, but resumes it's normal form & location when the character shifts back.

Because it has not really come up in a significant manner yet, I have not fully flushed out the details of that ruling, but am inclined to add a modified bonus to objects based on their sympathetic connection to the character. I am currently unsure if this rule should also be used for shapeshifting through Sorcery (aka Shapechange or Critter Form spells), but am inclined to say yes.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Shinobi Killfist
post Apr 1 2010, 10:36 PM
Post #35


Neophyte Runner
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 2,431
Joined: 3-December 03
Member No.: 5,872



Woops missed that, thanks.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Falconer
post Apr 2 2010, 02:41 AM
Post #36


Neophyte Runner
*****

Group: Validating
Posts: 2,283
Joined: 12-October 07
Member No.: 13,662



With all due respect, the technique in earthdawn was ONLY available to very high level entropomancers or something like that. (can't remember their exact name). It was something of their capstone ability too IIRC. Even at that, I'm not sure that merely having 6 ranks in arcana is nearly enough justification for any player character. And even then only after extensive study/combat/interaction with the horrors at the height of the mana cycle IIRC.

And yes, 10s is trivial to someone stated out for it. (increase attribute, centering metamagic, etc... I've soaked 16 physical drain down to 4 from summons gone bad... 10S is definitely in the doable range especially w/ edge).

I don't see it as endowment-materialization for everyone. That still leaves an unconcious body you still need to worry about and can be tracked down.


As far as your other metas... multiple rounds of casting is borderline because that one casting roll goes against a single dice pool to resist it. The only thing which makes it even considerable is you're not casting on prior rounds while waiting for it to go off. But even then, it doesn't matter how much counterspelling you have, after 2 or 3 rounds of casting w/ a reasonable high force...


And increasing magic skills w/o limit is bad. Even the closest analogue is item attunement, and that requires additional karma expenditure. The metamagic is way too cheap compared to spending .5PP on similar combat skills and don't fool yourself that spellcasting/summoning skills aren't at least that valuable. Then lets hit another one of your favorites... multi-casting... split the dice pool... now look another modifier to add after the split from the meta. Even if treated as a skill mod subject to the cap... it's still questionable.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Shinobi Killfist
post Apr 2 2010, 03:18 AM
Post #37


Neophyte Runner
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 2,431
Joined: 3-December 03
Member No.: 5,872



QUOTE (Falconer @ Apr 1 2010, 10:41 PM) *
With all due respect, the technique in earthdawn was ONLY available to very high level entropomancers or something like that. (can't remember their exact name). It was something of their capstone ability too IIRC. Even at that, I'm not sure that merely having 6 ranks in arcana is nearly enough justification for any player character. And even then only after extensive study/combat/interaction with the horrors at the height of the mana cycle IIRC.


Nethermancers. And in a large part the reason why it was high circle was not because it was inherently hard but because while there was a lot of mana all of astral was massively polluted. It was like the entire planet was an aspected background for horrors, even though its a basic function of being a mage basic astral projection wasn't done in Earthdawn, mages couldn't just do it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Muspellsheimr
post Apr 2 2010, 03:45 AM
Post #38


Neophyte Runner
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 2,336
Joined: 24-February 08
From: Albuquerque, New Mexico
Member No.: 15,706



QUOTE (Falconer @ Apr 1 2010, 07:41 PM) *
And increasing magic skills w/o limit is bad. Even the closest analogue is item attunement, and that requires additional karma expenditure. The metamagic is way too cheap compared to spending .5PP on similar combat skills and don't fool yourself that spellcasting/summoning skills aren't at least that valuable. Then lets hit another one of your favorites... multi-casting... split the dice pool... now look another modifier to add after the split from the meta. Even if treated as a skill mod subject to the cap... it's still questionable.

Which quite literally says you did not actually read it. At all.

Go read the fucking metamagic - *attempt* to comprehend what it actually says - then come back & complain about it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

2 Pages V  < 1 2
Reply to this topicStart new topic

 

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 9th May 2025 - 04:38 PM

Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.