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Bull
post Apr 21 2010, 12:04 AM
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A-Freaking-Men
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Prime Mover
post Apr 21 2010, 12:21 AM
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Or speculating about that....oh what was it...that data haven thing......
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Bull
post Apr 21 2010, 12:25 AM
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Huh? WHat? Nothing to see here, move along now. (The DDH sitch makes me mad)
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dirkformica
post Apr 21 2010, 12:44 AM
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What does this post from RPG.net's thread mean to the current situation? (I'm not registered there and don't really feel the need to just to ask this question.)

QUOTE
For anyone registered on PACER, check out case# 10-14343-TTG in Western Washington State. Looks like some of InMediaRes Productions LLC's creditors have filed for Ch. 7.
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Stahlseele
post Apr 21 2010, 12:55 AM
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How deep does the rabbit hole go, indeed?
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Penta
post Apr 21 2010, 01:05 AM
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QUOTE (dirkformica @ Apr 20 2010, 08:44 PM) *
What does this post from RPG.net's thread mean to the current situation? (I'm not registered there and don't really feel the need to just to ask this question.)


Without PACER access on my part, what it would seem to mean is that some of IMR's creditors are filing for Chapter 7 bankruptcy. This is, IIRC, the kind of bankruptcy in which a company is liquidated, not reorganized. It's also the chapter for most types of personal bankruptcy.
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Darkeus
post Apr 21 2010, 01:30 AM
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It don't look good, I tell you that...
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ravensmuse
post Apr 21 2010, 02:03 AM
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QUOTE (Bull @ Apr 20 2010, 08:25 PM) *
Huh? WHat? Nothing to see here, move along now. (The DDH sitch makes me mad)

Me too (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

Is there any chance of this Bull?
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Bull
post Apr 21 2010, 02:14 AM
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QUOTE (ravensmuse @ Apr 20 2010, 09:03 PM) *
Me too (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

Is there any chance of this Bull?


In some form or another, yes. I just don't know when. It's been out of my hands for a while, though I'm tempted to just throw it up as one bigass RTF document (Hey, it worked for the early Shadowrun Supplementals. Hell, Adam was even nice enough to do the first couple issues as a pure TXT option mainly for luddites like me who were operating on antique computers back then (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) ).

Bull
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otakusensei
post Apr 21 2010, 02:16 AM
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QUOTE (Method @ Apr 20 2010, 07:53 PM) *
Per an email I just received my SR4LE status was just update to "Processing".


You're lucky, still no word on my order.
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Bob Lord of Evil
post Apr 21 2010, 02:19 AM
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QUOTE (Bull @ Apr 21 2010, 12:04 AM) *
A-Freaking-Men


Second that motion! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)
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Bull
post Apr 21 2010, 02:24 AM
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QUOTE (Penta @ Apr 20 2010, 08:05 PM) *
Without PACER access on my part, what it would seem to mean is that some of IMR's creditors are filing for Chapter 7 bankruptcy. This is, IIRC, the kind of bankruptcy in which a company is liquidated, not reorganized. It's also the chapter for most types of personal bankruptcy.


http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?p=12042182#post12042182

This is a slightly better link, as it takes you to the trhead rather than just the individual post.

Droog on RPGnet has been reporting a lot of the same material as Frank, though this is new and not something Frank posted first. I don't know who he is or where he's getting his information from (Unlike Frank, he's not really waving any flags around, bragging about having inside secret scoops, or making too many baseless assumptions off the information. He mostly just posting things with a short statement and letting it go), but according to him, it's three of IMR's "many investors".

Others would be better suited to really analyzing this than me, but basically it just sounds like a move to force CGL's hand a bit, wanting to recoup their investment and get out. IMR/CGL should have the opportunity to respond (as Droog points out) and my guess is that there should be a point for some arbitration and potentially the ability to simply buy out the investors, assuming the money is there.

<shrug>

Either way, I don't think this will really impact things much anytime soon. This sort of thing takes quite a while to shake down, and we should know the status of the license before then, which is the only thing that really matters to us as fans.

Bull
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Caine Hazen
post Apr 21 2010, 02:25 AM
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QUOTE (ravensmuse @ Apr 20 2010, 09:03 PM) *
Me too (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

Is there any chance of this Bull?

Mostly my fault.... the final stuff was in late Feb, and I just haven't worked on it. New job amongst other things has pretty much ground me to a halt. I still have my computer upgrades I promised myself I'd install after I finished sitting there waiting for me to finish it
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augmentin
post Apr 21 2010, 02:40 AM
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QUOTE (Bull @ Apr 20 2010, 09:24 PM) *
http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?p=12042182#post12042182
Others would be better suited to really analyzing this than me


Would love to hear an analysis from Mind&Pen.

Would love to hear the official response from JM Hardy.

Would love to hear the inside scoop from ketjack.

Of course none of the above has any obligation to do anything.

As a general question, would the unpaid freelancers also be considered creditors?

EDIT: Thanks for the updated link & analysis of the poster.

This post has been edited by augmentin: Apr 21 2010, 02:41 AM
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Penta
post Apr 21 2010, 02:44 AM
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IANAL, or even remotely trained in bankruptcy law...And this should in no way be construed as legal advice...

But. As I understand it...Yes. However, they'd fall pretty much last in line.
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Ancient History
post Apr 21 2010, 02:46 AM
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I think so, yeah. I believe in this case, "creditor" is "anyone IMR owes money to."

[/edit]Bugger. Penta beat me.
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JM Hardy
post Apr 21 2010, 03:14 AM
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QUOTE (augmentin @ Apr 20 2010, 09:40 PM) *
Would love to hear the official response from JM Hardy.


I'm afraid I don't know anything about this. If I find out anything, I'll pass it along.

Jason H.
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Bull
post Apr 21 2010, 04:50 AM
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Ok, so in theory, the Chapter 7 filing may not be that big a deal. More information has been posted elsewhere, and while they're legal documents apparently available publicly if you know where to look, they contain names and addresses and the like, and that makes me really uncomfortable sharing. So I won't. Especially since as far as I know, Wildfire LLC is the only one that's mentioned anything about this publicly (and I'm less uncomforatable talking about a company than I am individuals).

Anyways, long and short of it is that it's WIldfire and two individuals, and the nature of the amounts are a Loan, Services rendered, and Royalties. Wildfire is the Royalties one. The total amount for all three is under $60,000.

60K is a sizable amount, but not insurmountable. So my question is, if anyone knows more about the financial laws, could IMR basically pay them off by meeting their owed amounts at this point, ending the filing, or can the attempt to force the issue through (at which point, if the Wikipedia page on Chapter 7 is to be believed, a mediator steps in, if the claim is judged valid).

I dunno, it really seems that my first assessment was the correct one. Basically, some folks attempting to force CGLs hand and guarantee they see some recompense.

<shrug> M&P? I think at this point we've determined you're the only one on here qualified to comment on these areas (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Bull
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augmentin
post Apr 21 2010, 05:03 AM
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QUOTE (JM Hardy @ Apr 20 2010, 11:14 PM) *
I'm afraid I don't know anything about this. If I find out anything, I'll pass it along.

Jason H.


Many thanks!
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augmentin
post Apr 21 2010, 05:15 AM
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QUOTE (Bull @ Apr 21 2010, 12:50 AM) *
Ok, so in theory, the Chapter 7 filing may not be that big a deal. More information has been posted elsewhere, and while they're legal documents apparently available publicly if you know where to look, they contain names and addresses and the like, and that makes me really uncomfortable sharing. So I won't. Especially since as far as I know, Wildfire LLC is the only one that's mentioned anything about this publicly (and I'm less uncomforatable talking about a company than I am individuals).

Anyways, long and short of it is that it's WIldfire and two individuals, and the nature of the amounts are a Loan, Services rendered, and Royalties. Wildfire is the Royalties one. The total amount for all three is under $60,000.

60K is a sizable amount, but not insurmountable. So my question is, if anyone knows more about the financial laws, could IMR basically pay them off by meeting their owed amounts at this point, ending the filing, or can the attempt to force the issue through (at which point, if the Wikipedia page on Chapter 7 is to be believed, a mediator steps in, if the claim is judged valid).

I dunno, it really seems that my first assessment was the correct one. Basically, some folks attempting to force CGLs hand and guarantee they see some recompense.

<shrug> M&P? I think at this point we've determined you're the only one on here qualified to comment on these areas (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Bull


Also not a lawyer, but while we wait for M&P I have more experience with business to business collections than I care to. In my experience (far out side this industry), usually the contract governs the collections process. I.E. if you fail to pay, we will collect via method X (and usually you have to pay for method X). There are so many alternative methods to collect, all of which would generally have a greater and quicker chance of returning actual money. I.E. mediation, collections agencies, etc. This chapter 7 actions just seems a bit bizarre.

Pure baseless conjecture: it seems like maybe there's some bad blood in play. The timing of this chapter 7 action is suspect. In other words, if CGL owes me money, I want them to stay in business so they can pay me. If Topps performs a standard due diligence on the corporation and principal owners (again no idea how this works in RPG industry, but pretty standard for franchisees), they're going to see any liens or bankruptcy actions. This makes them less likely to retain the license, less likely to stay in business, and less likely to be able to pay me. Now, if I hate someone at CGL's guts and I want to see them fail regardless of what it costs me, they I want to get this on the public record for all to see. Heck, some franchise contracts can be instantly voided in the event of a bankruptcy filing.

As I said, this is pure baseless conjecture, but at first glance this doesn't pass the sniff test.
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Bull
post Apr 21 2010, 05:20 AM
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That was one of my first thoughts as well, but I really want to stay out of baseless accusations and speculation myself, so... <shrug> There may be a lot more we don't know here, on either side of this mess. Hell, maybe it's just something as stupid as "Someone got bad advice from their lawyer". I dunno.

*sigh* 3 weeks. 3 Weeks is how long CGL has to deal with the filing of this. And just over 3 weeks is the license deadline. I guess we'll know more then, one way or another, and we can all stop arguing. (Yeah, right)

Bull
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augmentin
post Apr 21 2010, 05:26 AM
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QUOTE (Bull @ Apr 21 2010, 01:20 AM) *
and we can all stop arguing. (Yeah, right)

Bull

QFT
At least we can stop arguing about real life and start arguing about the relative omnipotence of dragons, whether or not a speeding vehicle should be the most effective attack in the game, and if an emotitoy is balance breaking.
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Dread Moores
post Apr 21 2010, 06:11 AM
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QUOTE (Pepsi Jedi @ Apr 20 2010, 04:45 PM) *
Check online. The places that have it, start around $50 and go up over $100 quick.

Low supply and High demand I guess. I have the PDF and an Ipad to read it on, but I collect the books themselves. I was happy to get mine for $35


Uhh...Battleshop still has it listed in stock for $35. It can definitely be found online for cheaper than $50. I just bought it for a friend of Amazon (sorry Battleshop, but it's not like you don't get enough of my business already having gotten three copies through you, I just have lovely free shipping through them) for $25, basically new, less than four days ago.

Here it is in the battleshop.
Runner's Comp

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Pepsi Jedi
post Apr 21 2010, 06:23 AM
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Um..... maybe they got more stock in. but when I looked Amazon most defiantly did NOT have it. And the 'Amazon sellers' Started at about $45 and went up over 100.

In fact... That's exactly how it is now. I've seen this more than once when it comes up to pricing books. People go "Oh it's cheep on amazon" or something or 'Oh you're crazy you can get it cheaper than that" with out looking. Cheepest one on Amazon right now is a USED one for $45 or new starting at $55. It's BEEN that way for weeks.

There's two on Ebay.. for $80 and $99....

People really gotta stop that.



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Fuchs
post Apr 21 2010, 06:36 AM
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QUOTE (Bull @ Apr 21 2010, 07:20 AM) *
That was one of my first thoughts as well, but I really want to stay out of baseless accusations and speculation myself, so... <shrug> There may be a lot more we don't know here, on either side of this mess. Hell, maybe it's just something as stupid as "Someone got bad advice from their lawyer". I dunno.

*sigh* 3 weeks. 3 Weeks is how long CGL has to deal with the filing of this. And just over 3 weeks is the license deadline. I guess we'll know more then, one way or another, and we can all stop arguing. (Yeah, right)

Bull


I have some sizable experience in collecting - though over here, it's handled by the state - and usually people simply want their money, and threaten to file for chapter 7 or the equivalent suit first. If that doesn't work they then launch the suit in the hope of the debtor not wanting to go down and paying them. In my experience, such suits are launched when the money was not coming, and several extended deadlines had passed. A last warning, of sorts.

I'd no call it bad advice either - "hoping they'll get better and then pay me" almost never paid out in my experience, those who agreed to such usually ended up paid last, more likely never.
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RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 5th July 2025 - 07:48 AM

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