iirc, two things:

1. SWAT use SMGs mostly, not assault rifles. This to reduce over-penetration plus having better control and more ammo then a pistol.

2. SWAT snipers rarely snipe out beyond the kilometer range.

Too bad a Remington 700 isn't a sniper rifle. Also, SWAT snipers train heavily and make great use of sniper rifles, not every SWAT team member.

And my point still stands that a SWAT member is going to be better off with an assault rifle than a sniper rifle regardless in close quarters with potentially bad visibility, not because the sniper rifle is inherently bad in such a situation, but because an assault rifle is better. Like I said, spray and pray. Even if it is dark and you can barely see, if the area is small, you just pull the trigger of an assault rifle and point it in the right general direction and you're likely to hit something.

To answer you're original question: They don't use sniper rifles because assault rifles are more effective.

I don't really see using a Sniper Rifles in SR4 as 'power gaming'. This character isn't gaining a terrible advantage, beyond not having to buy, carry, and train with two guns. As we all know, the real 'problem' is Automatics.

Most American SWAT teams use M4 assault rifles modified for their particular role.

And you're right, but they actually rarely snipe outside of the 100 yard range. Rarely are they farther away than across the street.

The 700 is most certainly a sniper rifle, it's what all American forces use. But of course assault rifles are much more effective in CQB, I never meant to argue that point.

Well, in game it is a sports rifle, no idea about IRL. That said, you've rather answered yourself haven't you? If you know assault rifles are more effective in CQB, then why are you asking why they wouldn't use something else? They aren't more effective because of wieldiness, but because of their innate ability to put out a large number of rounds. It's the same reason they don't use pistols they lack the high bullet output of an assault rifle.

And of course, don't forget you're playing a game where a sword(or bare hands) is a totally valid option that will not draw even the slightest amount of strange looks or anything when running into the midst of a group of people firing assault weapons at you. Obviously realism isn't the mainstay of SR in the first place. So yeah, go ahead and take out sniper rifles from CQB, but make sure to take out melee as an option in a firefight as well, because it is also unrealistic.

I think you're confusing me with somebody else, I never said any of those things. I was just clearing up some inaccuracies about weapons that you put forth. Although I admit I was using real world examples, and now it's clear that you were not. It's hard to tell on Dumpshock, people use real world examples to justify role playing scenarios quite often.

Not at close range or in CQB.

Also, there is such a thing as a battle rifle which is also not a sniper rifle for what should be obvious reasons.

I didn't think that needed to be said. I forgot where I was.

AFAIK, contrary to common prejudice, the 5.56mm is also less likely to shoot through building structures like walls than common pistol calibers because of fragmentation.

In SR, I'd subscribe to the use of scoped assault rifles for sniper type characters. Better availability, cheaper, more versatile and sufficient range for urban situations.

That, and many 'sniper rifles' are basically just combat rifles with long-range optics. Maybe the OP is talking about a Barrett 50-cal, but that's a pretty special subcategory.

The bigger problem is the fact that a good shot from a sniper rifle does a fair bit more damage than an assault rifle, and that 'one shot kill' is more or less the point of the sniper. You could of course use full auto from max range (Take that realism) with no more penalty than from short range, but you also have the stealth aspect to consider, and it is harder to silence an assault rifle than it is a sniper rifle.

In SR, they're equally easy to silence. You'd have to trade off the gas-vents, but you could still handle at least short (and probably long) bursts without recoil.

Sound suppressors burn out after so many rounds, and their mod equivalent is more expensive/uses more mod slots and I believe is less effective.

And of course if you're giving up the gas-vent, you're giving up high bullet count, which is basically the only advantage an assault rifle has over a sniper rifle.

Sorry, I think I misinterpreted your initial post. Thought you were arguing that SWAT teams routinely used sniper rifles in close quarters, etc...

No, he was saying that if sniper rifles weren't unwieldy in CQC, why wouldn't all SWAT teams use them in CQC. Or someone was, getting people mixed up today it seems.

Method was saying that, I was only clarifying that SWAT teams do use sniper rifles.

There are other, non-rule reasons why sniper rifles aren't used up close. The rate of fire is a big reason, their weight is another reason. The heavier a sniper rifle is, the more stable it is and the slower it moves. This is an advantage when in position, and a disadvantage in CQB obviously. The ergonomics are all wrong as well.

But that's the real world. In most Shadowrun games, style counts just as much as substance. If it were my game, I'd be sure to let that up-close sniper pull off plenty of cool stuff with it, but I'd also make sure it got in the way every now and then.

Okay, the AK-97 was a nice low-budget solution. Now the high-end alternative:

HK G12A3z

Stock equipment

Gas Vent 2
Telescoping Stock
Laser Sight

Internal mods

Easy Breakdown, manual [1]
Electronic Firing [2]
Bayonet Mount [1] & Bayonet
Melee Hardening [1]
Extreme Environment Mod I [1]

External accessories

Internal Smartlink [internal]
Sound Suppressor [barrel]
Bipod [under]
Imaging Scope Lv.4 [top]
- Smartlink
- Vision Magnification
- Low Light
- Flare Compensation


Nuyen: 7.960


3 weapons in 1 ready to go just about anywhere. RC's 4 both in silent sniper and assault configuration and can even go up to 6 when the drek hits the fan. The only drawback's that the assault mode has only the laser sight or relies on Wi-Fi.

An internal smartlink has always been my favorite external accessory. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

Exactly, Doc Byte. I thought I made it clear that the suppressed Assault Rifle can easily get short and even long bursts without recoil. The fact that there's a cost involved isn't really an issue. This is in addition to what we all already know: the AR also uses Automatics (extra flexibility there), can have those gas-vents available at a Free Action's notice, etc.

A Remington 700 is a hunting rifle.

A Remington 700 + lots of expensive parts + lots of expensive gunsmith labor = a sniper rifle.

Learned that trick at DS. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

The phrase was actually 'mil-spec Remington 700', not that it matters for 'unwieldiness'.

The 700 is an action. It comes in a variety of different platforms, anything from "sniper rifles" (with the right add-ons) to the 700 XCR compact tactical rifle.

Isnt the whole point of a 'sniper rifle' to hit targets at range with extreme accuracy, with often a single killing/disabling shot?
Fluff wise, kind of sounds wrong to use it in CQB. Use an assault rifle.