Can't you two just take it private already? It's got no relevance to what's going on here, and it's really old to see this come up for the sixth or seventh time now. Get on with your lives.

QFT. I consider you both friends. Please stop.

I think the time saved by cutting corners, like not bothering to work up a Jackpoint Login page (even though it's been a staple of non-adventure SR4 releases up to this point), or giving the final layout a thorough once-over to make sure that it doesn't contain material that the company is obligated not to use had to be a factor as well.

Yup.

As for other matters, I've said what I have to say. I take accusations of dishonesty by me seriously, which is why I responded, but I have no wish to further derail the thread.

Jason H.

Like I already said, expecting him to stop bringing it up is foolish. People will be asking him why he quit forever and the answer will always be that he accused you of lying and not being in a position to pay the freelancers.

The most spectacular setback the line and release schedule has suffered in the last three months is you letting your personal feelings get the better of you and going off the deep end about a private conversation that you should never have been party to.

Had you swallowed your pride and dealt with the problem any other way Corporate Guide, 6WA and all the others would have been released weeks or months ago. All that cash from PDF sales would have been on CGL's balance sheet by now. All that cash could have been used to print product.

The fact of the matter is that come Friday you will be rolling the dice in Court to see if CGL continues to exist. You would be rolling a shit load more of them if you could have kept your personal feelings about Bobby's behaviour personal and done your job as Line Developer, which is to get frakking product out the door.

On the subject of the release schedule, would you still have been able to release what you have if Bobby had forced you to pulp Vice? Seems to me that there is a good likelihood that you would have been proved wrong had Bobby not chosen to cut you some slack.

Really? Really? I feel like there is at least a little bit of circular logic going on here.

I think I've made it very clear at this point that my opinion on Jason's honesty is just that: my opinion. Short of posting the actual freelancer conversation Jason posited the schedule for, I think we've got as many facts of the matter out there as there are. Whether or not he was being dishonest you can judge from his statements and his actions for yourself.

Czich: Do you really think that in three years from now if he CGL keeps the license, which despite your rolling the dice idea is looking fairly solid, that anyone will know AH from Bob? Especially if he carries through on his tantrum, sells all his books and never does Shadowrun again?

Bobby made the decision to pull his copyrights, not Jason. Jason made the decision to pull Bobby from the freelancer boards after he undercut him and called him a liar. Again I ask you, how well do you think that would go over where you work?

There's a wonderful German word for what I think motivated Jason to go forth with this schedule: Zweckoptimismus.

It means a demonstratively exercised optimism to show others things aren't nearly as dreary as they may look, and intends to inspire optimism in others, despite high to insurmountable odds.

Thanks. I mean that. That's an awesome word to know.

BlueMax

It's a fair cop. I'm generally optimistic, though I try to keep myself as grounded as possible.

Jason H.

Thats ridiculous. JH has been nothing but professional in his communications on this board, despite being constantly baited by AH, whose own unprofessional behavior is without question.

Hyperbole, much?

A pretrial conference is a routine proceeding that's meant to streamline a case by getting some agreement about the issues that should control the outcome, setting a discovery and hearing schedule, and so on. Check FRCP 16(a) for the reasons pretrial conferences are held and FRCP 16[c](2) for a list of things judges are encouraged to considered at pretrial conferences. Pending motions would normally be dispensed with at the conference, but there aren't any popping up on PACER and it's unlikely that anything of legal consequence will happen on Friday. I expect that it will be largely administrative, which is why I've not renewed my previous offer to cover gas/lunch for anyone attending and reporting.

P.S. The board's automatically converting c's in parenthesis to ©. What a pain!

I agree. I enjoy working with Bobby a great deal, but I am beyond tired of that particular discussion. It's a personal issue between the two of them and it doesn't need to keep getting dragged into these threads.

Hell, at least Bobby knows why he was removed from the freelancer forums. To this day, I still don't know why I was.

Really? Really? Do you actually have some sort of counter-point to make?




Ridiculous? How? JH booted AH from the freelancer forum because he didn't like what had been said in a private conversation.

End result? Four, five or so books are held indefinitely until material can be rewritten from scratch, proofed, laid out etc.

In the short term I suppose that didn't matter. It's not like CGL needed the money....



Is there a finite chance that Friday's hearing will eventually result in CGL entering involuntary bankruptcy?

Would this probability be smaller if CGL had more frakking cash on hand?

Hyperbole?

CGL's dire straits can be blamed chiefly on one man, imho, and that man is LLC.

I don't know how anti-CGLers, if you allow me generalize, can praise the sanctity of private communication and then not even bat an eyelash when former freelancers start disgorging material leaked to them knowing full well that the content was intended to be kept private. Many freelancers have justifiably been upset with their inability to trust CGL. If trust is fundamental to operating, why would you start slinging character slurs behind someone's back on limited knowledge? How is that any better? Ad hominem certainly isn't necessary to express your reservations about a projected release schedule.

[not addressing your point, not sure I understood it]

I was being ironic when I pointed out the private nature of the conversation that got AH canned.

I spent most of the day trawling through threads 1-5 to find the relevant exchange. In the process I was once again exposed to the vicious attacks made by pro-CGLers on those that had leaked Randall's private email to the free-lancers.

I found it an amusing counter-point that AH's woes started when a private communique was leaked to Jason.

ps

Damn I'm fed up with the three character limit on searches. IRC? Log? Waaaahhhhrrgrbbblllll.....

I have been a lurker for an awfully longtime and I thought it was time ONE: the AH vs. JMH thing its he said she said no neutral party exists to the events in question let it die gentlemen. TWO: I susupect mr bills is between a rock and a hard place if he does whats arguably morally right he cuts his own throat financially speaking. I am guessing he took the less moral more realistic view and is trying to salvage things before he loses it all. Does he like his choices I doubt it but there isn't exactly a third I can see. If LLC acted as indicated it is in the very least ethically questionable. I have know sympathy for him at all as for mr bills ask yourself what you would do in his shoes? Blackwulf

Privacy is key and only works if both parties have a high level of trust. Bobby definitely felt that trust was breached, and decided to make things public because he felt he had no other recourse. What other options do you think would have been better? Some people can take a good shafting, and others stand up to injustice.

Bobby is passionate about what he works on. When something threatens you will do drastic things to try and protect it. There are many stages to grieving, anger, denial, depression, acceptance. I would have done the same thing given the situation, no matter how unprofessional it seemed. When you have no control, the only fight you have is a public one.

If I was a line developer I would realize what a workhorse and asset a passionate, hyper-productive writer is. I would do my best to work with them instead of butting heads. Looking for win-wins instead of compromises and confrontation. Looks like mismanagement was also a key in bringing the situation to where it is.

I also believe that it was for the benefit of others as a warning sign, that Bobby brought this out. The very sad thing is that it makes the Shadowrun line suffer. We would not be here at all, if things were handled correctly from the beginning.

End the end, I would hope that Bobby and JH would look to trying to resolve this through a mediator.

Would you also realize that it is a liability to work with someone who is trying to undermine you at every turn? Someone who is trying to undermine other workers confidence in you? As someone else pointed out earlier, do you really think this kind of shit would be tolerated at your workplace?

Context makes a world of difference. To me, letting a fellow freelancer know that, "hey this schedule doesn't seem likely, he's making it look good, so don't expect your payment to come in at a certain time", is worlds different from your description. Regardless of what management would like, employees deciphering their message and chatting about it is par for the course everywhere I've worked. IMHO, a manager can't get that worked up over what amounts to an employee bull-session... especially when it's about what amounts to "will we actually get cut a paycheque this week?"

Now, I don't think we know or will know exactly what the conversation looked like, but I definitely want to stand up for employees' right to complain about what they perceive as bad management!

If that someone can knock your production schedule on shit that is ready to ship back by three months? If you're already in financial difficulty?

You ship the damn product and shit-can the frakker later.

Duh.

In the interests of balance he was a lot less polite and a lot more direct than that.

I agree entirely with the rest of your post.

So wait so much of this debate has been over integrity and consequences. Jason shows some personal and professional integrity over a potential short term gain and it's bad? Besides once again AH was taking steps to undermine the line developer and moving behind his back, basically acting untrustworthy. Jason removed him from a position where he had access to further use company resources to undercut him. An action that seems well justified in light of AH's further actions and vitrol.

Innocence is in short supply around these parts but you want to Armchair general interpersonal relations that happened months ago based on specific events that happened at the time that we're not entirely privy to all the fact.

I've seen people throw this around like is something special about Ancient History.

Yet I have not see anyone phrase Jason's action as a passionate defense of what works on.

From there own words Jason and Bobby butted heads alot, which is typical of passionate people. However they have a disagreement on how that gets expressed, and they could not reconcile. Given that Jason is/was the boss it is in no way surprising this is how it fell out.