so it seems. I stand corrected.
http://www.nraila.org/Issues/FirearmsGlossary/

I still don't see any reason to have them grouped separately in SR.

Like playing the game? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

No they can be beat into submission. Withholding food from misbehaving DMs works as well as not letting them out of the basement.

If someone is choosing to invest their energy into pistols instead of automatics or what have you, I say godspeed and enjoy the 2 dice.

And, if they're burst firing with the pistol, then they'll need those two dice to make up for the fact that they can't get a gas vent.

But then they won't have them. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I'm wondering if the Pistol specializations didn't somehow slip through editing. As written, they are: Holdouts, Revolvers, Semi-Automatics, or Tasers. I would expect the specializations to be: Light Pistols, Heavy Pistols, Holtouts, or Tasers.

Looking exclusively at the corebook, there is one revolver listed (defined as a pistol with a cylinder), the Ruger Super Warhawk. Arsenal only offers three more.

Maybe, but I know a few people who are extremely deadly with a rifle, but can barely hit a paper target at 7 meters with a Handgun... The two skills are different enough that it does matter.

Keep the Faith

So you found that one specialization is broader than another. It's not like Pistols is the only skill, where this is the case:
Diving(SCUBA) vs Diving(Arctic)
Unarmed Combat(Martial Arts) vs Unarmed Combat(Subdual Combat)
Pilot Groundcraft(Wheeled) vs Pilot Groundcraft(Bike)

Don't forget different Specializations needn't be mutually exclusive.

Pilot Ground (Vehicle). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Oh well. That's why the Specs in the book are all suggestions for the GM to rule on in play.

This is not an appropriate Specialization. By RAW only those specializations in the book exist. Everything else is a houserule. Other than that, where does it say that Specializations need more approval by the GM than anything else?

BTW Pilot Groundcraft (Wheeled) is not as bad as Unarmed Combat (Martial Arts). at least Hovercrafts and tracked vehicles are in the Pilot skill as well. Martail Arts include all possible uses for Unarmed Combat.

Actually, it has been commented by those who developed the Edition, on more than one occassion, that the EXAMPLES of Specializations in the book are just that... Examples...

Keep the Faith

Comments and FAQ are not RAW. I don't advocate disallowing other Specializations in a particular game I just say that they are not RAW.

No, RAW is that the GM approves any specializations, and you can use the examples as… examples. You have to read between the lines. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Also, it was a joke. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Duh.

Thoroughly true. I can certainly see how Revolvers and Semi-Automatics are far more different skill-wise than Light Pistols and Heavy Pistols. I suppose it's the gamer mind in me that is conflicted with that ruling.


I always took Blades (swords) and Blades (parrying) to be mutually exclusive. I know you can parry with a sword, but I figured it was specialising in assault with one weapon, or defence with many. I carried this thought on to Unarmed Combat where ~(martial arts) and ~(parrying) again are mutually exclusive.

Now I see my dilemma. It came from when I first read the table in SR4A page 157:
I read the terms in brackets as specializations. I see now that they come after Reaction instead of the skill, so they are not specific specializations.

So what do you reckon, do Blades (swords) and Blades (parrying) both cover defence?

I think that Blades (Swords) gives the bonus to that sword in any relevant use.

Exactly, but Blades(Parrying) also covers defense with knives, axes, spears etc.
Nowhere does it say that for any given test only one type of specialization may apply.
That is exactly why the SCUBA Specialization also applies for dives in the arctic or in caves or whatever. Unless you use an LBA or an external compressor or go snorkeling, the Specialization applies. Since Liquid Breathing is still Science Fiction, I can't say how self-contained such an appartus would be and the SCUBA specialization may even apply.

Umm,Guys Semi-automatics prefers to a specific type of pistols not to a fire-mode.
I would think thats kinda obvious.

It is obvious. It's just very broad, which is exactly what everyone's been saying all thread. It amounts to Pistols (Pistols).

I like that phrase! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

That got me thinking, could I take Hacking (edge) to gain +2 dice to any matrix action on which I spend edge?

Then the question is, what happens if you mod such a pistol for BF or FA? What happens if you add SA to the Ruger Thunderbolt? Does the Specialization apply to the Savalette Guardian?

All of these weapons must be by definition autoloaders (which according to the article is synonymous with semi-automatic pistol) but they do not necessarily fire in SA mode.

In real life...in real life pistols are also loaded with magazines, not clips...



Would you also call every character which is not a sample char from the books "not RAW"? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Magazine simply refers to the ammo storage system. All weapons use a magazine, just some use a rotating cylinder magazine, some use a removable box magazine, some use an internal box magazine, some use a slide magazine... Sorry, got carried away there. The terminology of clip/magazine/cylinder/break/muzzle is used as a game term to define what type of action is used to reload the weapon.

Yes, it's very broad, but what the heck. It's not like pistols are the most powerful weapons out there.

Bye
Thanee

You know, I would have been totally disappointed with this forum if nobody had contested that seemingly simple point within half an hour (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)
Although I expected something along the lines of some obscure prototype pistol made in a garage workshop in the back of the beyond, which actually is loaded with a stripper clip (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)


OK, just to quickly address your points: If you load something with a magazine that obviously means the mag is detachable, and IMO the definition of "magazine" also includes some sort of feeding capacity (so a belt box is no magazine)



And as game terms the whole clip/magazine/drum thing is a very positive example of well-defined terms used in a consistent manner. Just that the terms used don't align with real-life definitions of clips and magazines is a pet peeve of mine.

Ask and you shall recive

Sorry it took this long, i was at work (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)