is there any danger of ruining game balance?

If not, let em have at it.

We priced it just like cyberware, though I freely admit that if a character were to modify a weapon after chargen, they'd need to pay the incidentals.

We've found its fun at chargen to have our rigger like character have a tricked out hyundai, and our pistol adept to have tricked out pistols. More fun that way. YMMV.

You're welcome to do so, but Arsenal explicitly notes the costs and availabilities are for the materials necessary for the job, and then explains what else is necessary to turn those materials into the modification. You're welcome to file the modification process under "Y-costs" like surgery, etc.

Edit Edit: Finally tracked down where I got the idea that parts = half of purchase cost, and it might be Hardware-specific, so this gets a little more complex.

I will note that personally I suspect that the listed cost is the intended cost, and that the modification process added the "cost of materials" note as a bit of flourish to make the process make sense and to curtail attempts at "I can build it, it says so right here, so give it to me for free at chargen because I did it all before the game starts, yes, even the jetpack minigun kit." Edit: Mostly I think this because otherwise , as you've noted, this would be the only place in the game where the listed cost is for the incomplete product.

Yerameyahu: I'd probably use the listed price or a marginal increase myself, because modified weapons are interesting, although with the caveat that I'd like to see modifications that arent' strictly made to make the weapon more powerful. MAD-proof is neat, autofire underbarrel grenade launchers less so.

Heh, well that's a pretty wide line. Some of the mods make the guns significantly more powerful, as you say.

And yet you do not pay the surgery costs for the implantation of the Cyber/Bio/Gene/Nano Modifications that you purchase... they work by the exact same principle after character creation...

Tit for Tat... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

Keep the Faith

Considering that gear equipment/selection is supposed to represent what one got over the years I don't see a problem for having it as Base weapon +Cost of the modifications. Either you either built it yourself or acquired it by some means (killing, present, etc). At no point during character creation does gear represent new items, yet every player pays new gear price. If you want to be fair then look up the fixer cost and determine how much an item should run. It is similar to cybereyes, or anything else with capacity you pay cost for the slot.

From a personal standpoint customized weapons add something to the character. Patton was known for his ivory handled pistols. Each shadowrunner should have a unique weapon that represents their personality.

If it really bothers you then treat weapons like customized cyberlimbs. Take the highest availability of the gun or modification and add +1 for each modification past the first. This limits the number of modifications without actually forbidding them or doing complex math. I think gear selection takes enough time without trying to figure out weaponsmith costs, etc...

Nope, Tymeaus, because that's cyberware, and this is weapon mods. Different.

Nope its really isn't.

I would have no trouble if a Rigger or Armorsmith, having the required Kits/Tools/Factory and the required Skills buy the modification at material cost at Character Generation.

It would make sense, they have invested a large part of their BP into the other things required to get the Weapon Modification. They fullfill all requirement to get the weapon/vehicule mods by the rules.

For another character there is no way they could have do so. If they dont have the skill nor the tools they cannot have made the modification for the listed price, thus they cant have it at game start. They need to find a way to get it at a larger price and harder avaliability.

The avaliability is the main problem as some modifications materials are less restricted than the final product (wich is logical considering what they are used for).

That sure isn't such a big deal as the GM as the final say on anything the player want to buy at character creation. But I really would have liked to have CLEAR and definite position of the rules about the real price and avaliability of the modifications at game start.

Max, cyberware is clearly not weapon mods. That's different. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

He could have asked a friend to do it. Or just found/bought the weapon premodded. It could have been a gift. There's all sorts of possibilities. Character creation assumes a lot about how you got your gear. Rarely is it all just purchased from Runners R Us. That seems to be the big part you're missing in your logic.

And those many possibilities are why it's not worth considering any of them. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

It really Isn't... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

Keep the Faith

You do not have to... Purchase Gun (Vehicle)... Add Mods... Done...
What's to consider? Easy peasy... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

Keep the Faith

I didn't say you had to. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Mods have both a cost and availability. I'd say they satisfy the requirements for buying in chargen.

You don't pay for downtime or installation costs for cyber or bio, or instruction costs for learning your skills in character creation.
Treating mods differently is a double standard, and double standards are bad.

I agree in general - I think mostly the potential confusion stems from the fact that the book explicitly notes that those prices and availabilities are for the raw materials, where "raw materials" usually cost less than the "market price" for the item (Critters, Hardware, Foci) and character's are expected to pay "market price" during chargen (for the same reason that they don't get a price decrease for having a good Hardware skill and the same-but-opposite reason they don't get a price increase for cyberware...if that makes sense.)

Again, I think the section stating that the price is for materials is what's in error, rather than the listed costs. But it's not crazy faerieland nonsense to raise the question, given what's stated and how it interacts with other portions of the rules regarding DIY and what "materials" are.

Parts is parts.





-karma

As to why it might be easier to mod a gun for HV operation than to buy one, take for example the fact that I can buy a semi-auto AK-47 for 1/10th the price of a pre-ban full-auto AK and then buy a kit to illegally modify it as full-auto for next to nothing.

Why the HV mod would be Restricted while all existing HV weapons are Forbidden is beyond me though.

It is more akin to the final weapon is forbidden, but the little parts you need to do it are simply restricted items

Say for instance it is forbidden to mount a flamethrower on your car, but you can buy the parts for mounting one at the hardware store and buy one with a little hassle (they are considered agriculture tools and not firearms)

If you put the parts together and mount it, then you have a forbidden item. Otherwise you simply have a box of parts and a restricted item