basically the idea for this guy, is a latent Dracomorphosis Massively Str focused guy, who transforms into a Oriental drake to use a pair of Minigunn’d HMG's to decimate everything insight.. And use the advantage of his 18 STR to maul the ever loving crap out of everything he can’t blast to smithereens with his miniguns.

I don’t want to start with a Cyclops, because the 1 eye thing really makes for a dick all gun fighters, and I hate that.
I would rather start as either a formori or a minotaur, but I’m not sure what the best route is.

Then after going with the latent Dracomorphosis, ill take the adept quality and basically be a crazy self improving mega gun wielding dragon.

Or is this idea just destined to fail at the utmost level? Or would he being a magician be a better idea? Being a Draco means that ware is out since I lose it in dragon form, unless I want to sit down and design a dunklezan winning ware that can be used by Shapeshifter


anyone able to offer me some advice for this?

Okay, that's kind of insane, but just for the sake of argument...

I don't think he's got enough strength to fire a minigun effectively. I think the rule is on Arsenal, p163: Strength 18+ is 4 points of recoil compensation. A Minigun burst is worth 15 points of recoil, so you would still need a pretty huge pool to fire one from the hip.

Why not pick shapeshifter Bear with a metatype minotaur, changeling adept? Get metagenic improvement (strength) for the changeling with beserker for the flaw. and finally exceptional attribute.

When you add everything up you get a base 15 strength maximum with augmented maximum of 22. If you want to be really cheesy then pick power throw and missile mastery with attribute increase strength. You will be throwing cards, change, pens and baseballs like assault cannon rounds through vehicles.

does it work like that?

so without fudging around with the stats how wolul that effect my troll form then?
would it be that i have even more stats in my troll form?

so it woudl cost me 110 bp to be a troll ascpect bear shapeshifter? do i add my trolls natural str to my startign stas when i go in bear form or troll form?

Err, actually. It doesn't work like that. Shifters can only have a human form, not metahuman. I personally would not allow a shifter PC to also be a changeling, but that's me. There doesn't seem to be anything in RAW that prohibits it.
Also, keep in mind that shifters are animals that can become human, not humans who become animals. So even if your bear could become a troll--which he can't--he probably would not be interested in learning how to fire a minigun.

Why bother with missile mastery??

it just adds +1 damage to throwing anything.... doesn't mean without the power you can't throw a brick. 1 point for for +1dv isn't worth it if you ask me.

The OP could just get a customize cyber limb, with a str of 18 or more. go to the forum search and look for a thread titled "Chris Hurley-combat biker"

There is the option for a player to get a metahuman or variant for -10BP of the normal cost of the metavariant in addition to the cost of the shapeshifter. Hence the minotaur. Basically all you get are the special abilities without any stat adjustment. That said metagenic improvement is part of the abilities for fomori, cyclops and minotaurs. The extra reach is nice as well so you get +2 reach as it would add onto the bear. In your case it won't make much difference if you pick a troll or human base for your shapechanger. Human would be cheaper, but if you want the extra reach, body and goring horns it maybe worth it.

Changelings can be anything from animal to metahuman/metavariant. So by RAW it is fine to have a changeling shapeshifter.

There is nothing that states shapeshifters lack any kind of training unless the player picks a negative quality limiting his ability to learn how to fire weapons.

Like everything else it must be run through your GM to see if it is allowed.

Missile mastery allows you to use improvised objects to throw to damage. Siad character is always armed from simple quarters to pens. I definitely don't want to be on the receiving end of a character who decides to throw grenades as missile weapons. 14P from the basic damage and then it would explode on the next initiative phase would suck. The character becomes his own mini cannon with ranges exceeding that of a heavy crossbow.

As for the cost you are looking at 1 point for missile mastery and 0.75 points on power throw level 3 for increasing the effective strength of the user by 6 points. From there you would have to take attribute boost or augmentation to exceed the natural maximum. You won't reach the theoritical level of 22 for a long time, but it would still be cool.

As for the customized cyberlimb you still can't exceed the augmented value and the customized only matches your actual attributes. Anything above that takes capacity. Maybe a troll ghoul would get you close with a 21str rather than a 22 for the bear shapeshifter.

You can't 'minigun' a HMG. Someone (and not likely you) can design and manufacture a HMG minigun. In fact, they did: it's the Vigilant Light Autocannon (basically), and it can't be mounted even on small vehicles, let alone dual-wielded by a metahuman, drake form or not. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Ah, excellent. Thank you for correcting me. I must have missed that when I was (admittedly) skimming the rules.


Hence my saying "probably." (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) It's true that there's nothing in RAW to prohibit it. It would just be seem unlikely.


And I certainly wouldn't allow it. But that's me. YMMV.

...and I have to wonder what the opposition to this character would look like. The GM is pretty much obligated to one-up you, so you're going to be stuck in a Daikaiju campaign until you retire this guy.

If that's your idea of a good time, more power to ya.

I have the sudden urge to make a shapeshifter pixie...

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I wonder why the GM is pretty much obligated to one-up a player or a player character? If my player wants his character to be the strongest person around, I think I would rather let him be unless he chooses to go up against something like a dragon.

...of course, going up against something like a dragon is a distinct possibility, when one's playing a drake. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

Augmented Maximum doesn't...really...apply to Shapeshifters unless they're using Increase Attribute. Cyber on shifters is a bad idea.

(Latent Drake is also a terrible idea. You have to pay 120 Karma later. After...some...indeterminate point...when the GM lets you.

So does this mean. a shape-shifter can get a human and a metahuman variant changeling alternate form?
And do you have to change between human>animal>other alternate, or can you shift from human to other alternate just like that?
This would mean, you really can HULK OUT now O.o
Going from a small unseeming human to OMGWTF 3M TALL BRIGHT GREEN MUSCLE MONSTER!
And with a Pixie going from 0,5m to 3m this would get pretty silly . .
"Mass displacement, the Energy expenditure must be tremendous!"

No.

It's Animal and Metahuman. If you get a varient or changeling qualities, you still only have TWO forms. Animal and your other one.

Ah pity ._.

Is that sarcasm?

Let me paint the scene for you. You are [overengineered combat monster from Dumpshock]. You are offered money to kill a guy. You arrive, and decide not to bother with sneaking - you walk in the front door. The rent-a-cops, when they hit you at all, are packing low-power weapons that bounce harmlessly off your soak pool. You kill eleven men in the lobby, six men in the hallway, four men and a CEO in the penthouse. None of them deal damage. You leave.

How long will that be fun? Every Superman needs his Kryptonite, or there is no story. As a GM, I am here to give you an adventure, a story. If there is no risk, no challenge, then there can be no victory, no glory. It is my *job* to one-up you and make you work for your win. Otherwise, you haven't really won a damn thing.

Thats what magic and chem-tech are there for.
But this is more about brute strength instead of toughness.
And weapons like electro-shocks, fire, water, sound and blast.
All of which halve of completely negate any armour the character is wearing.
But this is really about dealing damage, not about soaking it.

No. It is not.

How long will that be fun? For as long as it can, which can be quite a while. Batman always wins, that's the story. As a GM, you are supposed to make the game fun, even if your PC is Batman. There is always a risk, no matter how small, there can always be victory, sometimes people don't want glory. It is my job as a GM to make it fun, to challenge you but I do not need to "one-up" your character to do that. If you want me to one-up you, then I will. Otherwise I won't because it is not fun, you can't win a damn thing if you lose.

No, it is your job to make an internally consistent world that makes the players want to be in your world. If the players are having fun then you have done your job as a GM. If this means the CEO is of a small company with few guards and the walk in with few problems then that is not a problem. It might be a 20 minute session, but okay. It is also nice to make milkruns for the players so they don't always feel no matter what they do the missions fail. I am not saying every mission goes that way, but it is nice that not everything goes to hell in a handbasket when you go out for dinner.

As a GM I don't need to one up players. The defenses are what the defenses are along with contingency plans. If the players plan, adapt, recon, and outgun or outthink the opponents it will be an easy run. If they get complacent or don't adapt it could be a very short run.

… And a very short run is a boring waste of time. It's like a zerg rush in Starcraft: win or lose, you just wasted 15 minutes.

You always challenge the players. There's a big difference between executing a great plan, and BoringTroll. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Yes and challenging means there is more complexity than killing a guy. I have no problems with players carrying more firepower or having higher skills than their opponents. Challenges include environmental, mental, social, etc. A good mystery always helps.

The example given for the CEO is no different than the opening scene to Leon. It isn't 20 minutes of wasted time it is 20 minutes spent getting the story going and earning some cash. It is what you do with the rest of the session that matters. My view of shadowrunners more closely fits with Ghost in the Shell and the challenges are placed accordingly.