Pay for writers is typically per-word. A typical pay rate in RPGs is 3 cents a word; up to 5 for larger companies and established authors. (Much higher than that if you are writing for Wizards of the Coast ... which is still low when compared to technical writers, for example.)

Whats a typical chapter word count?

On the extreme low-end of the scale - by which I generally mean new indie publishers - the rate can be 1 cent per word. At the high end of the scale, with publications like Dragon Magazine, you're looking at 6 cents per word. Industry average, if there is such a thing, is I think 3 cents a word. FanPro and CGL were paying 3-4.5 cents a word while I was there, as far as I know - I got 3.5 for most of my run. Artist freelancer rates are, of course, completely different and based on the size of a piece (quarter page, half page, third-of-a-page, full-page, cover, all that jazz) and I know very little about their rates.

On top of that, freelancers get 1-3 "comp" copies of the book they work on, whenever the company decides to send it.

That sounds like peanuts, and well it is: Lovecraft was getting pretty similar rates from Weird Tales in the 20s. The paltry rate is one of the reasons why not paying your freelancers is a shitty thing to do, but it also determines things like how much money you're going to budget for the development of e-books: the amount of $$$ you're willing to pony up is based on your expected break-even point, and that $$$ determines how many pages and art you're going to try and squeeze in at a given pricepoint. I got to see a spreadsheet once for that sort of thing - I think it was Digital Grimoire, which the writers were doing pro bono anyway - and the break-even was expected to be 50 copies, which is what a web-only product is expected to sell on average (DG did much better than that, so I hear.)

Paid by the word? How Dickensian! Are the editors then paid by how many words they can cut out?

Bugger, Adam sniped me.


It depends. Generally an RPG book is around 100k-150k, the smallest single sections are generally 3k-5k, while big chapters (Seattle in Runner Havens, Neo-Tokyo in Corporate Enclaves, Chicago in Feral Cities, etc.) can be 50k-60k easy.

That's a useless metric, since chapter sizes are so different.

A full page of text in a black-and-white Shadowrun supplement (such as Vice, Corp Guide, etc) contains roughly 1100 words.

A full page of text in SR4A contains roughly 1250 words.

How else would you measure their work?
Per Letter? Per Sentence?
Also, they get told about what length they need to write for a certain part, as far as i understood.

I would have thought that it would be on a per-piece basis -- e.g., $X per chapter. I definitely don't pretend that I know of a better alternative to being paid by the word! In my line of work, I get paid by the hour, regardless of the length of the resulting written work.

Here's why paying by word count happens: If you know your word count, and you know how many words-per-page you are going to have, you can estimate the length of the book and the amount of work that it will take to finish it beyond writing (editing time, layout, art, color correction if photographs are included, proofing, etc.); as well as estimating the print costs.

If an extra 30,000 words are written, the publisher not only has to spend more money for those words, but they also need more art, more production time, more printing expenses, more shipping/storage expenses, etc. It all flows downhill from the word count. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I can't speak for the RPG industry, but for the publishing industry in general, a short story typically runs 5000-15000 words. Anything over 25,000 words is considered a novella and anything over 50,000 is considered a novel. Most series romance, westerns, pulp mysteries, etc. are in the 50,000 to 70,000 word range. Most best seller runs 65,000 to 90,000, and most fantasy tends to get over 100,000. Anything under novella-length (short stories) will be paid per word, with rates ranging from $.005 to $.05/word. Novellas typically are only published by established authors, usually as a group of novellas (the seasons books by Steven King, for example) or to fill out an anthology of previously-published short stories (Jim Butcher's forthcoming Side Jobs will have a new novella published with his previous short stories). Novels are typically paid an advance against sales. For example, you get $5,000 and we'll print 10,000 copies of the book. For every copy we sell, we'll pay you $1. If you sell 5000 copies of the book, you get nothing more. If you sell more, we pay you the balance quarterly. If you sell less, you get to return some of that money back to us (unless your contract says otherwise).

This applies only to fiction writing. I don't have much knowledge about non-fiction writing, so I can't say for sure about that. And RPG writing tends to run halfway between the two in terms of writing, but seems to run closer to non-fiction in how it's handled in the industry.

Edit: Oh, and the standard shorthand is 250 words per page, if you want an idea.
Edit2: Fixed the drunken math

That math seems off a bit. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

If you want to see what a real fiction writers contract says look at this:
CMAP #3: What Authors sell to Publishers By Charlie Stross

Oh blah...I had a crappy day at work so I downed a glass of vodka.

To be super-nitpicky, I think "if you sell 5000 or fewer" is most accurate? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Mmmm, vodka....

Missions (and most of the PDF projects) are a flat rate. A LOW flat rate. Sadly. But that's also determined in part by sales, so... If I can convince the powers that be to figure out ways advertise, and if we can make Missions and PDFs worthwhile for the average Shadowrun player/GM to purchase, then the pay rate will (hopefully) rise.

Bull

Not just vodka, but homemade vanilla-infused vodka.

Back to topic, if you're interested in the publishing industry, go to your local library and check out the Writer's Market guide. Lots of good, practical information for how the publishing industry works.

Since this discussion (the industry, how you get into it, what the pay is, etc.) seems to come up all the time, I made a topic for it over here:

http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=32142

I don't THINK it exists elsewhere (sorry to the mods if I double up), but it seems like a cool thing to talk about.

Does that mean that you want to get the offtopic-stuff into a seperate thread? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/eek.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

This is madness!

Madness? THIS. IS. DUMPSHOCK!

...I'm sorry, but you set me up.

Judge Overstreet? I love his comics price guide!





Yeah, I've got nothing.

Good, we can get back to talking about vanilla vodka, best of all the vodkas. Mix that with some coke and I'm gone...

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotate.gif)

That sounds good, but is it better to get plain vodka and vanilla coke?

Mesh

Regular Pepsi is best.