CGL Speculation #10, Time for asbestos underoos Options

[Cain]

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CGL Speculation #9

See also the Terms of Service

Most recent news: CGL secures extension for 6 months. Film at 11.

[Synner667]

Is this even valid anymore, since there has been some result ??

[otakusensei]

Of course they're not operating in a normal manner. This isn't a normal business situation. Expecting them to act like its 2005 is stupid. I've taken some shots at the quality of the editing in the TRO:3085 previews, so I feel your pain on that front . . . but new print products at the conventions are key indicators of life and vitality for a firm under legal attack. End of the day, I'd push it out the door too.

Or, they made sure to have a print product right at the con season because they know that they will make the money back, and quick.

If this was an act, they'd not be putting money into printing. They'd not be hiring a new accountant to revamp internal procedures. They'd not be taking the time to streamline the customer service e-mails. That's time and money that wouldn't be invested if the goal was to maximize short term return w. the expectation the license is a lost cause or the bankruptcy a foregone conclusion. At the end of the day, it may be too little, too late, but I think it's time to stop suggesting that people still with IMR - other than the Colemans - are looking to burn the proverbial house down.

The "streamlining" of the support emails is exactly the type of thing I called slapdash business practices. Hiring a new accountant wasn't an option given their situation, if they wanted to pretend to be a real viable company they needed to do whatever it cost. From their behavior they are either doing a horrible job of making a best shot at keeping things going, or doing the least they can do to keep things going as long as they can. Sometimes that means stopping to water the horse before you run it into the ground, just so you get those last few miles out of her.

[otakusensei]

Is this even valid anymore, since there has been some result ??

I think the line is strong enough to survive six more months of IMR, so yeah.

[Cardul]

In the last thread, someone was commenting that the influx of PDFs we ahve been seeing from CGL is "not business as usual."
I am wondering if that person has been following CGL the last few years. Generally speaking, this is the time of year we see
a plethora of PDFs from them, with stuff coming into Dead Tree for GenCon and out through November. We hardly ever see
more then one or two Dead Tree books released from November through August. It pretty much *IS* business as usual for CGL.
True, they are putting up some classic books in PDF now, but, you know what? They had been talking about doing that for years.

[Doc Chase]

That's all well and good, but they need to proofread these new releases better. I'm not happy about dropping the money I did on the Almanac to find errors so bad that a simple spellcheck would've caught them - that is nigh unacceptable.

Cripes, a freelance copy editor is not that expensive.

[Ancient History]

CGL has been moving to more PDFs; before I left there was even an initiative to get a small PDF product out each month. However, PDFs are not a company's bread and butter and there remains a certain...I dunno, intransigence among many gamers, and even many freelancers about non-print products. Some people see them as a lack of the company to actually produce a physical product, others believe its a relatively cheap and dirty measure - PDF products have the advantage that they can be pumped out relatively quickly, with a faster turn around than print products, but often suffering from lack of time to write, lack of editing, reused art, etc. Which are familiar critiques for many print books as well, natch.

So yeah, CGL might plan on pumping out more PDF-only books to raise $$$ - Jason said as much once, I think - but honestly, we haven't seen any standalone PDF books of that type since 10 Jackpointers, which suggests the bulk of the editorial and get-this-out-the-door effort is on big books like Corp Guide and 6WA - and I think that rush shows on those products.

[Abstruse]

CGL has been moving to more PDFs; before I left there was even an initiative to get a small PDF product out each month. However, PDFs are not a company's bread and butter and there remains a certain...I dunno, intransigence among many gamers, and even many freelancers about non-print products. Some people see them as a lack of the company to actually produce a physical product, others believe its a relatively cheap and dirty measure - PDF products have the advantage that they can be pumped out relatively quickly, with a faster turn around than print products, but often suffering from lack of time to write, lack of editing, reused art, etc. Which are familiar critiques for many print books as well, natch.

So yeah, CGL might plan on pumping out more PDF-only books to raise $$$ - Jason said as much once, I think - but honestly, we haven't seen any standalone PDF books of that type since 10 Jackpointers, which suggests the bulk of the editorial and get-this-out-the-door effort is on big books like Corp Guide and 6WA - and I think that rush shows on those products.

As a consumer, I must say I don't like buying PDFs. I'll do it very rarely for stuff like Sixth World Almanac which I won't be referencing as much, but I still want something for my money. I want something I can hold in my hands. Maybe I'm old-fashioned, but I like reading ink on paper. Maybe it's the portability, maybe it's the tactile sensation, but I like reading books over a computer screen.

And if there's DRM involved, I'll pass immediately. I had a friend who fell for the DIVX thing (not the video codec, but the DVD format). I don't want something that might roll over and die when a company goes belly-up.

Also, I hate buying the same thing twice. If I get a PDF, I'll never buy the print version. If a print version is available, I will buy that and therefore never own the PDF. This whole "Here's the PDF for $20, we're sending it to the printers in a month or three" thing feels like the same sort of double-dipping you get with DVDs. Lord of the Rings and the various Evil Dead films are the biggest offenders.

[Dread Moores]

Also, I hate buying the same thing twice. If I get a PDF, I'll never buy the print version. If a print version is available, I will buy that and therefore never own the PDF. This whole "Here's the PDF for $20, we're sending it to the printers in a month or three" thing feels like the same sort of double-dipping you get with DVDs.

This is one issue that CGL needed to address a long while back. It's a real shame they haven't. If you're looking for a good example (outside of the excellent examples of Posthuman with Eclipse Phase), look towards the Dresden Files RPG from Evil Hat. Buy the book, get the PDF. Or go to local game stores, buy the book, show the receipt, get the PDF. There's money to be made using PDFs in very different ways than many companies are currently using (even with all the PDF content and material CGL has done with BattleCorps).

[Adam]

Frankly, there is a lot of linear thinking about electronic book pricing, and it doen't benefit anyone. There are some electronic resources that are worth less than the printed version, and there are some that are worth more. But if they are useful to people, they are absolutely _worth something_, even if they're not being directly sold for dollars.

Of course, we know that electronic resource can be copied indefinitely, and choose to embrace that. But we're going to continue to sell them as well, and as long as they continue to be worth people's money, they will continue to sell. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Cardul]

Frankly, there is a lot of linear thinking about electronic book pricing, and it doen't benefit anyone. There are some electronic resources that are worth less than the printed version, and there are some that are worth more. But if they are useful to people, they are absolutely _worth something_, even if they're not being directly sold for dollars.

Of course, we know that electronic resource can be copied indefinitely, and choose to embrace that. But we're going to continue to sell them as well, and as long as they continue to be worth people's money, they will continue to sell. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

What bothers me are the technophobic game companies, like Alderac and WotC. Look at Alderac, despite the book
having sold out of its ONLY print run, they still have not released a PDF of L5R 3rd Edition's Emerald Empire book, which includes rules that are almost required for the game, and, in fact, are referenced in some of the last 3rd edition books.
Same with Prayers and Treasures, and several other important books. The only way to get them, at all(they do not show up on E-bay) is through pirated copies.

And, of course, everyone knows how WotC decided that, to stop piracy, they were stopping selling anything
in electronic format, because the special tracking software they put in their PDFs told them that for every PDF
they sold, 10 were pirated. I have, generally, found PDFs useful for somethings, dead tree useful for others. Generally
speaking, I prefer dead tree, but I try to get everything in PDF so that I can do planning during slow points at work.

[Adam]

"Special tracking software?" Reference, please.

[Cardul]

"Special tracking software?" Reference, please.

Their interview where they said "We can track this, you know."

[Adam]

LOL.

[Synner667]

Their interview where they said "We can track this, you know."

Hmmm...
...So, PDFs that communicate with the PDF originator ??
I'd find it quite worrying, if PDFs can do that - it would lead to situations where legitimate PDFs might not work properly because they can't "phone home"

If there's some other software loaded to track PDFs, is that legal if they don't tell people about the software being loaded ??

[Adam]

Synner667, PDFs can contain DRM, but the vast majority of them don't, and WotC's never did.

(easy clue: if a PDF will open in multiple PDF-reading applications, it doesn't have DRM.)

[Saint Sithney]

Cripes, a freelance copy editor is not that expensive.

I'd do a pass of any of the web-only stuff just for the free pdf, because I imagine I could do it in an afternoon and I like the idea of it.

Also, because, frankly, it could generally use the polish in a serious way...

[Synner667]

Synner667, PDFs can contain DRM, but the vast majority of them don't, and WotC's never did.

(easy clue: if a PDF will open in multiple PDF-reading applications, it doesn't have DRM.)

DRM does not relate to ability to track a PDF...
...One would limit who can read it, the other would determine it's pirating.

To be trackable, it'd have to phone home and home would have to be aware of it...
...Unless the whole tracking piracy thing is guestimation, based on some demographics and/or marketing and/or sales information [like they use for music piracy]

[Adam]

It's not too difficult to look at your own sales figures, and then look at the number of completed downloads on a BitTorrent tracker. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

If PDFs were phoning home to WotC, do you not think the userbase -- buyers and pirates (and of course, those that overlap those two groups!) would not have discovered it, given the highly-technical nature of many of the people that consume gaming PDFs?

[hermit]

If PDFs were phoning home to WotC, do you not think the userbase -- buyers and pirates (and of course, those that overlap those two groups!) would not have discovered it, given the highly-technical nature of many of the people that consume gaming PDFs?

Not to mention that would be illegal in a number of countries.

[crizh]

It's not too difficult to look at your own sales figures, and then look at the number of completed downloads on a BitTorrent tracker. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

To be fair it's much easier when there is only one tracker and you know where it is 'cos you were the one who uploaded the torrent in the first place.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

[hermit]

Though a good deal of illegal downloads nowadays is done via one-click hosters.

[crizh]

Though a good deal of illegal downloads nowadays is done via one-click hosters.

one-click?

One-click, type the capcha, count to hundred, three-more-clicks and close the fifteen porn pop-ups more like.

[Cardul]

It's not too difficult to look at your own sales figures, and then look at the number of completed downloads on a BitTorrent tracker. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

If PDFs were phoning home to WotC, do you not think the userbase -- buyers and pirates (and of course, those that overlap those two groups!) would not have discovered it, given the highly-technical nature of many of the people that consume gaming PDFs?

Um....so, does this mean I have to become highly technical? I can barely clean out all the stock stuff that
I don't want on a new computer. I have friends do any really technical stuff on my system. I am not a highly
technical person. I am more an average computer user, and I just use PDFs 'cause I can put them on my lap
top...

[hermit]

One-click, type the capcha, count to hundred, three-more-clicks and close the fifteen porn pop-ups more like.

Well yeah. Popup blockers usually work on them, though.