 CGL Speculation #8, Put on your asbestos underwear |
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 May 27 2010, 03:43 AM
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Grand Master of Run-Fu  Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,840 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 178  |
OK, so the last thread got closed, but there's still more going on. Word is that the most recent documents were going to court on May 27. Does anyonehave any information on this?
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May 27 2010, 04:21 AM
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,086 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 364 |
And since it's customary to include backlinks in the first few posts, here are the threads that have come before:
CGL Speculation #1 <-- locked for being lengthy and unwieldy. CGL Speculation #2 <-- locked to avoid database bloat CGL Speculation #3 <-- locked for bloat CGL Speculation #4 <-- locked for more threads about each other than the topic CGL Speculation #5 <-- locked because of cyberpenis CGL Speculation #6 <-- locked for 600 posts CGL Speculation #7 <-- locked for being derailed by posts with no real information (in a "speculation" thread, mind you) See also the Terms of Service. |
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May 27 2010, 05:37 AM
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#3
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 992 Joined: 2-August 06 Member No.: 9,006 |
QUOTE (Cain @ May 26 2010, 10:43 PM)  OK, so the last thread got closed, but there's still more going on. Word is that the most recent documents were going to court on May 27. Does anyonehave any information on this? Well, I do not expect to see anything at 12:35(US Civilized..er..Central Time) in the morning on the 27th. I expect it will not be until much later, like in the afternoon US Primitive..er..Pacific Time(since they are in Washington State). |
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May 27 2010, 07:31 AM
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#4
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Shadow Cartographer Group: Members Posts: 3,737 Joined: 2-June 06 From: Secret Tunnels under the UK (South West) Member No.: 8,636 |
QUOTE (RunnerPaul @ May 27 2010, 05:21 AM) See also the Terms of Service. LOL! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Although the last thread had hit 33 pages on standard number of posts per page. It's probably about time we had a new thread just for the sake of organizing all this. I must say it was nice to see the lawyers churning out so many words. I always had a cynical view that lawyers are so verbose because they get paid by the hour. But it seems it's just a natural character trait. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) So anyway, CGL speculation... I would imagine whoever is the new (or same) licencee, they would want to make a preliminary announcement as soon as everything is safely confirmed. This uncertainty is probably not doing anyone any good and the moment we know with a bit more certainty what is going on, we can start, well, I don't know. Speculating on more specific and interesting things. Unless CGL keep hold of the licence in which case we probably get no more certainty than we have right now what with the bankruptcy charges. K. |
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May 27 2010, 07:52 AM
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#5
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,650 Joined: 21-July 07 Member No.: 12,328 |
If I was the new licensee, I wouldn't immediately annouce until I'd locked in some other key things - my finacing, my core creative team, decided on a product release schedule (I'll need to issue new core books as they make the most money) etc. Then I'd annouce. I'd try to do that fast, but I want to go to market with something comprehensive - saying 'hurray new license' isn't going to set the direction you want.
I'd to hit the market with an comprehensive message so I could try and push the other stuff into the background asap. If I was IMR, I'd annouce the very second I had the new license. |
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May 27 2010, 07:52 AM
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#6
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Runner Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,946 Joined: 1-June 09 From: Omaha Member No.: 17,234 |
Personally Knasser I think we're all kidding ourselves on the import of the site, the powers that be will make an announcement (one way or another) when they are good and ready but if I had to venture a guess I'd think the actual announcements will wait until origins or gencon if things are going to change hands.
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May 27 2010, 02:27 PM
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#7
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Target Group: Members Posts: 45 Joined: 6-March 10 From: San Fernando Valley, PCC Member No.: 18,250 |
QUOTE (Cthulhudreams @ May 27 2010, 12:52 AM) If I was the new licensee, I wouldn't immediately announce until I'd locked in some other key things - my financing, my core creative team, decided on a product release schedule (I'll need to issue new core books as they make the most money) etc. Then I'd announce. I'd try to do that fast, but I want to go to market with something comprehensive - saying 'hurray new license' isn't going to set the direction you want. I'd to hit the market with an comprehensive message so I could try and push the other stuff into the background asap. If I was IMR, I'd announce the very second I had the new license. I think a new licensee would have most of that done before trying to acquire the license, they would need to show Topps they were ready to make money. I also would think that they would made some kind of pitch as to the direction they would take the game, like maybe decorpifying the tribes or bringing in an alien incursion ala 'V'. Hey I didn't say they'd be good ideas. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) |
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May 27 2010, 03:09 PM
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#8
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Target Group: Members Posts: 98 Joined: 16-February 09 Member No.: 16,879 |
I'll speculate on this one. Sounds fun. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
I'd bet a new license holder would, on the day that the last bit of paperwork is signed (but not a second before), make a great big announcement. Origins is right around the corner and GenCon is only a few months off. They want to get people excited about their product AND draw attention away from "That which came before", especially all the bitter feelings that are floating around right now. I think they'd also want to deal with any potential negative reaction well in advance of their "coming out" at the cons. Get it out there, address it, and go into the cons with excitement at its height. Not to mention the process of spinning up as many demo games as possible. This assumes a lot about a potential new license holder's intentions and plans (as well as whether the license thing is even in question, which I'm not convinced of) BUT that would be my speculation on how it would go down. |
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May 27 2010, 03:17 PM
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#9
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Shadow Cartographer Group: Members Posts: 3,737 Joined: 2-June 06 From: Secret Tunnels under the UK (South West) Member No.: 8,636 |
QUOTE (Endroren @ May 27 2010, 04:09 PM) I'll speculate on this one. Sounds fun. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I'd bet a new license holder would, on the day that the last bit of paperwork is signed (but not a second before), make a great big announcement. Origins is right around the corner and GenCon is only a few months off. They want to get people excited about their product AND draw attention away from "That which came before", especially all the bitter feelings that are floating around right now. I think they'd also want to deal with any potential negative reaction well in advance of their "coming out" at the cons. Get it out there, address it, and go into the cons with excitement at its height. Not to mention the process of spinning up as many demo games as possible. This assumes a lot about a potential new license holder's intentions and plans (as well as whether the license thing is even a question) BUT that would be my speculation on how it would go down. I doubt that a new licensee would have anything at the demo stage for this Summer. Unless they're *really* confident of getting the licence and have been secretly working on their product all this time. But who knows. K. |
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May 27 2010, 03:18 PM
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#10
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Target Group: Members Posts: 98 Joined: 16-February 09 Member No.: 16,879 |
QUOTE (knasser @ May 27 2010, 10:17 AM) I doubt that a new licensee would have anything at the demo stage for this Summer. Unless they're *really* confident of getting the licence and have been secretly working on their product all this time. But who knows. K. No, but they'd probably be running SR4E games so they could press the flesh and drum up support. That's what _I_ would do anyhow - but then again I'm a big proponent of networking and word of mouth support. |
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May 27 2010, 04:17 PM
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#11
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,182 Joined: 5-December 07 From: Lower UCAS, along the border Member No.: 14,507 |
Let's make this easier for people that are just starting to catch up to this thread. Can someone give a quick but decent summary of all actions up until now? From the original Frank posting through the PR game to people leaving to books being cooked and who's what and what's going on, up to now, with the court cases? Because at one point, this thing became a wheel snake and I got lost. Specifically, who the heck is Sugarman that everyone keeps talking about?
Thanks. |
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May 27 2010, 04:20 PM
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#12
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935 |
Dramatis Personae
(From Who's Who on Dumpshock) [ Spoiler ] Note: The Loren Coleman associated with IMR is Loren L. Coleman, not Loren C. Coleman, the noted cryptozoologist. Timeline 3 January - WildFire LLC, makers of CthulhuTech terminate business relationships with Catalyst Games Lab, due to non-payment of royalties and breach of contract. ? March - Dave Stansel-Garner had resigned about a week before Jennifer Harding did, for his own independent reasons. 15 March - Jennifer "Tiger Eyes" Harding resigns from CGL due to a personal ethics conflict, to whit: Loren Coleman asked her to falsify royalty reports to Topps; Randall Bills allegedly supported this decision. 16 March - Frank Trollman makes his original post, accusing Loren Coleman of stealing money from InMediaRes Productions LLC, of which Catalyst Game Labs is an imprint. Adam Jury resigns. 17 March - IMR puts out a press release talking about the financial mismanagement of the company. ? March - Several Shadowrun freelancers withdrew copyright on their works until paid, exact dates not given. This is not the first time CGL freelancers had withdrawn copyright until payment was made. 19 March - ICV2 announces that some Shadowrun and CthulhuTech book sales are frozen. 20 March - Jason Hardy posts a correction to ICV2's original post, which ICV2 incorporates on 22 March. 22 March - Bobby "Ancient History" Derie gets banned from the CGL freelancer forums and terminates his contracts, which sets back the development of several Shadowrun books. (More detail here). The sections of the books he worked on in development were assigned to other freelancers. Stephen McQuillian posts that several freelancers are not currently under Non-Disclosure Agreements (NDA). 27 March - Frank Trollman leaks Randal Bill's letter to the freelancers. 31 March - Dawn of the Artifacts: Midnight ships, despite the author (Jen Harding) having withdrawn copyright. Jason Hardy says this is an error that will be fixed. 1 April - Jason Hardy confirms that shipments of DotA: Midnight have ceased. 3 April - Jennifer Harding weighs in on DotA: Midnight and the situation at Catalyst. Jason Hardy responds. Peter "Synner" Taylor weighs in. 4 April - Jason Hardy issues an update, explaining that CGL is cutting checks for freelancers. 5 April - CGL transfers ownership of remaining CthulhuTech and Poo inventories to WildFire LLC. 6 April - Adam Jury confirms Posthuman Studios is in the process of severing their relationship with IMR as well. Jason Hardy confirms freelancer payments are being received. 8 April - Phil "Ketjak" DeLuca, one of IMR\'s owners, says some of Jennifer Harding's statements are confirmed in IMR's corporate documents, and then weighs in on the state of IMR - and clarifies a little. 12 April - Troy Garner is reportedly terminated from employ at CGL; his position is now taken by Tara Bills (wife of Randall Bills). 13 April - Adam Jury confirms Troy took his personal computer, which is also the shipping computer, with him when he left. 14 April - Phil DeLuca expands on his previous post. The graphs he talks about showing the Coleman\'s draws are posted by Droogydroog. 15 April - Stephen McQuillian reveals he is no longer working for CGL. 19 April - Three of IMR\'s creditors - Wildfire LLC (creators of CthulhuTech), J.P. Sugarbroad, and Paul Stansel file for a Ch.7 Bankruptcy against IMR. ? April - A humorous webcomic is posted. 21 April - IMR releases a statement concerning its financial situation. 4 May - Catalyst announces that Shadowrun books are no longer frozen. 12 May - A long-in-development deal with Lone Wolf Development is finally completed, sub-licensing Shadowrun for use with Hero Lab. 17 May - IMR answers the creditor's summons. 18 May - The creditors file two motions, one for immediate relief and another to shorten time. 19 May - Motion to shorten time is approved. 21 May - Hearing is held. The creditor\'s motion for immediate relief is denied. A pre-trial hearing is set for 18 June. IMR issues a statement. Summary of Major Issues
I believe that takes care of the bulk of things. I didn't cover some little things, like Frank sending e-mails to Topps' legal counsel or statements that Topps and IMR are each doing audits. I don't think the Colemans' house is terribly important from a business standpoint, so I didn't include most of the links to that either. Anyone that thinks this should be amended or expanded, or is inaccurate, give a holler. |
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May 27 2010, 04:33 PM
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#13
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Great, I'm a Dragon... Group: Retired Admins Posts: 6,699 Joined: 8-October 03 From: North Germany Member No.: 5,698 |
Try to keep the summary objective, please.
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May 27 2010, 04:37 PM
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,182 Joined: 5-December 07 From: Lower UCAS, along the border Member No.: 14,507 |
If anyone could do it, I'd put my money on AH, honestly.
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May 27 2010, 04:57 PM
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Runner Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,946 Joined: 1-June 09 From: Omaha Member No.: 17,234 |
I wouldn't, frankly I can also site posts to back up this belief Before all this? Yea sure, now not as much. I presume Grinder is feeling the same although that may be incorrect.
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May 27 2010, 05:02 PM
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 595 Joined: 12-May 05 Member No.: 7,392 |
While I can cite many disagreements I've had with AH, I can also cite posts where he has attempted to analyze information regarding the current situation in as neutral a way as possible (with the assumption that very few of us, including me, can ever be entirely neutral).
Jason H. |
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May 27 2010, 05:16 PM
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#17
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Target Group: Members Posts: 98 Joined: 16-February 09 Member No.: 16,879 |
I speculated about "a new licensee" but out of fairness, and while we are waiting for AH's summary, I thought it would be worth speculating what CGL/IMR would do if the license decision comes down in THEIR favor...
The SECOND that Topps says "you can keep the license" - maybe before the ink is even dry - I'd expect a veritable parade from CGL. It would be a way to say "We admitted a long time ago that mistakes were made, but as we said all along we were working to resolve the situation and get our house in order. And what is more, not only have we done that but Topps agrees." At that stage, although there would certainly be detractors still, they could move on with the business of making a great Roleplaying Game and stop running defense against a constant barrage of negative attacks. So there you go - the other side of my best speculation about the future. |
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May 27 2010, 07:08 PM
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 732 Joined: 21-July 05 From: Seattle Member No.: 7,508 |
QUOTE I doubt that a new licensee would have anything at the demo stage for this Summer. I would speculate that 4 months without a print release, and no word yet on when anything might be getting released in print, isn't going to help... especially when I know that when I stopped writing for CGL, there were 5 items ready to print - DotA 3, Runners Toolkit, 6WA, Corp Guide, and Spells and Chrome. (Admittedly, when Jason yanked AH out of the freelancer pool, Jason had to rewrite portions of three of those.) I'm not counting the LE, which should have been ready months ago, as a print release (as it is simply the limited version of SR4A which had already been released), nor the Runner's Companion second printing. With one month left until Origins, and 9 weeks until GenCon... it looks like it will be a pretty sad summer season for CGL (I am not speculating on if they retain the SR license or not, mind you). I had been told that they wanted DotA3 for GenCon, but since it looks like CGL is now pushing the author of DotA3 around and has removed him from the freelancer pool as well, that might not happen either... |
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May 27 2010, 07:19 PM
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 583 Joined: 6-November 09 From: MTL Member No.: 17,849 |
Thank you for sharing. After 3+ pages of "Legalese Wars 3: Return of the Semantics" I was afraid we all lost sight of what decent speculation really is.
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May 27 2010, 08:43 PM
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#20
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 272 Joined: 5-April 10 Member No.: 18,416 |
Whatever happened to the vast freelancer conspiracy? Or speculation about who else might be bidding on the license?
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May 27 2010, 08:52 PM
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 174 Joined: 16-March 10 Member No.: 18,299 |
QUOTE (augmentin @ May 27 2010, 04:43 PM) Whatever happened to the vast freelancer conspiracy? With everything that's been said in these threads, I'm not sure which tangent you're referring to with that statement. Hesitant as a I am to ask, could you expound on this one? |
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May 27 2010, 09:39 PM
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#22
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935 |
Okay, amended that post above with a rough timeline and cover of all the pertinent issues.
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May 27 2010, 09:50 PM
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#23
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The back-up plan Group: Retired Admins Posts: 8,423 Joined: 15-January 03 From: San Diego Member No.: 3,910 |
Bobby is amending his post above, but to be clear I have not been removed from the freelancer pool for Shadowrun. CGL is investigating options for other eBook developers in order to continue eBook development while we are in contract negotiations. They changed the terms of the contract, I disapproved of some of the changes, and they are now being reviewed by their legal team.
It should also be made clear that the "? March" was not the first time writers withheld their copyright in order to be paid. I now return to my self-enforced silence on these matters. |
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May 27 2010, 09:51 PM
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#24
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Runner Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,946 Joined: 1-June 09 From: Omaha Member No.: 17,234 |
You left out that SR4LE's did see the street. It's minor true but if your going to cite it as a reason for concern you need to close the loop so to speak.. Other then that consider my previous concerns retracted/satisfied.
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May 27 2010, 09:53 PM
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935 |
I only mentioned it because of the webcomic, honestly.
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