Full Version: CGL Speculation #8
OK, so the last thread got closed, but there's still more going on. Word is that the most recent documents were going to court on May 27. Does anyonehave any information on this?
And since it's customary to include backlinks in the first few posts, here are the threads that have come before:
CGL Speculation #1 <-- locked for being lengthy and unwieldy.
CGL Speculation #2 <-- locked to avoid database bloat
CGL Speculation #3 <-- locked for bloat
CGL Speculation #4 <-- locked for more threads about each other than the topic
CGL Speculation #5 <-- locked because of cyberpenis
CGL Speculation #6 <-- locked for 600 posts
CGL Speculation #7 <-- locked for being derailed by posts with no real information (in a "speculation" thread, mind you)
See also the Terms of Service.
CGL Speculation #1 <-- locked for being lengthy and unwieldy.
CGL Speculation #2 <-- locked to avoid database bloat
CGL Speculation #3 <-- locked for bloat
CGL Speculation #4 <-- locked for more threads about each other than the topic
CGL Speculation #5 <-- locked because of cyberpenis
CGL Speculation #6 <-- locked for 600 posts
CGL Speculation #7 <-- locked for being derailed by posts with no real information (in a "speculation" thread, mind you)
See also the Terms of Service.
QUOTE (Cain @ May 26 2010, 10:43 PM) 
OK, so the last thread got closed, but there's still more going on. Word is that the most recent documents were going to court on May 27. Does anyonehave any information on this?
Well, I do not expect to see anything at 12:35(US Civilized..er..Central Time) in the morning on the 27th.
I expect it will not be until much later, like in the afternoon US Primitive..er..Pacific Time(since they are in
Washington State).
QUOTE (RunnerPaul @ May 27 2010, 05:21 AM)
See also the Terms of Service.
LOL!
Although the last thread had hit 33 pages on standard number of posts per page. It's probably about time we had a new thread just for the sake of organizing all this. I must say it was nice to see the lawyers churning out so many words. I always had a cynical view that lawyers are so verbose because they get paid by the hour. But it seems it's just a natural character trait.
So anyway, CGL speculation... I would imagine whoever is the new (or same) licencee, they would want to make a preliminary announcement as soon as everything is safely confirmed. This uncertainty is probably not doing anyone any good and the moment we know with a bit more certainty what is going on, we can start, well, I don't know. Speculating on more specific and interesting things. Unless CGL keep hold of the licence in which case we probably get no more certainty than we have right now what with the bankruptcy charges.
K.
If I was the new licensee, I wouldn't immediately annouce until I'd locked in some other key things - my finacing, my core creative team, decided on a product release schedule (I'll need to issue new core books as they make the most money) etc. Then I'd annouce. I'd try to do that fast, but I want to go to market with something comprehensive - saying 'hurray new license' isn't going to set the direction you want.
I'd to hit the market with an comprehensive message so I could try and push the other stuff into the background asap.
If I was IMR, I'd annouce the very second I had the new license.
I'd to hit the market with an comprehensive message so I could try and push the other stuff into the background asap.
If I was IMR, I'd annouce the very second I had the new license.
Personally Knasser I think we're all kidding ourselves on the import of the site, the powers that be will make an announcement (one way or another) when they are good and ready but if I had to venture a guess I'd think the actual announcements will wait until origins or gencon if things are going to change hands.
QUOTE (Cthulhudreams @ May 27 2010, 12:52 AM)
If I was the new licensee, I wouldn't immediately announce until I'd locked in some other key things - my financing, my core creative team, decided on a product release schedule (I'll need to issue new core books as they make the most money) etc. Then I'd announce. I'd try to do that fast, but I want to go to market with something comprehensive - saying 'hurray new license' isn't going to set the direction you want.
I'd to hit the market with an comprehensive message so I could try and push the other stuff into the background asap.
If I was IMR, I'd announce the very second I had the new license.
I'd to hit the market with an comprehensive message so I could try and push the other stuff into the background asap.
If I was IMR, I'd announce the very second I had the new license.
I think a new licensee would have most of that done before trying to acquire the license, they would need to show Topps they were ready to make money. I also would think that they would made some kind of pitch as to the direction they would take the game, like maybe decorpifying the tribes or bringing in an alien incursion ala 'V'.
Hey I didn't say they'd be good ideas.
I'll speculate on this one. Sounds fun. 
I'd bet a new license holder would, on the day that the last bit of paperwork is signed (but not a second before), make a great big announcement. Origins is right around the corner and GenCon is only a few months off. They want to get people excited about their product AND draw attention away from "That which came before", especially all the bitter feelings that are floating around right now. I think they'd also want to deal with any potential negative reaction well in advance of their "coming out" at the cons. Get it out there, address it, and go into the cons with excitement at its height. Not to mention the process of spinning up as many demo games as possible.
This assumes a lot about a potential new license holder's intentions and plans (as well as whether the license thing is even in question, which I'm not convinced of) BUT that would be my speculation on how it would go down.
I'd bet a new license holder would, on the day that the last bit of paperwork is signed (but not a second before), make a great big announcement. Origins is right around the corner and GenCon is only a few months off. They want to get people excited about their product AND draw attention away from "That which came before", especially all the bitter feelings that are floating around right now. I think they'd also want to deal with any potential negative reaction well in advance of their "coming out" at the cons. Get it out there, address it, and go into the cons with excitement at its height. Not to mention the process of spinning up as many demo games as possible.
This assumes a lot about a potential new license holder's intentions and plans (as well as whether the license thing is even in question, which I'm not convinced of) BUT that would be my speculation on how it would go down.
QUOTE (Endroren @ May 27 2010, 04:09 PM)
I'll speculate on this one. Sounds fun.
I'd bet a new license holder would, on the day that the last bit of paperwork is signed (but not a second before), make a great big announcement. Origins is right around the corner and GenCon is only a few months off. They want to get people excited about their product AND draw attention away from "That which came before", especially all the bitter feelings that are floating around right now. I think they'd also want to deal with any potential negative reaction well in advance of their "coming out" at the cons. Get it out there, address it, and go into the cons with excitement at its height. Not to mention the process of spinning up as many demo games as possible.
This assumes a lot about a potential new license holder's intentions and plans (as well as whether the license thing is even a question) BUT that would be my speculation on how it would go down.
I'd bet a new license holder would, on the day that the last bit of paperwork is signed (but not a second before), make a great big announcement. Origins is right around the corner and GenCon is only a few months off. They want to get people excited about their product AND draw attention away from "That which came before", especially all the bitter feelings that are floating around right now. I think they'd also want to deal with any potential negative reaction well in advance of their "coming out" at the cons. Get it out there, address it, and go into the cons with excitement at its height. Not to mention the process of spinning up as many demo games as possible.
This assumes a lot about a potential new license holder's intentions and plans (as well as whether the license thing is even a question) BUT that would be my speculation on how it would go down.
I doubt that a new licensee would have anything at the demo stage for this Summer. Unless they're *really* confident of getting the licence and have been secretly working on their product all this time. But who knows.
K.
QUOTE (knasser @ May 27 2010, 10:17 AM)
I doubt that a new licensee would have anything at the demo stage for this Summer. Unless they're *really* confident of getting the licence and have been secretly working on their product all this time. But who knows.
K.
K.
No, but they'd probably be running SR4E games so they could press the flesh and drum up support. That's what _I_ would do anyhow - but then again I'm a big proponent of networking and word of mouth support.
Let's make this easier for people that are just starting to catch up to this thread. Can someone give a quick but decent summary of all actions up until now? From the original Frank posting through the PR game to people leaving to books being cooked and who's what and what's going on, up to now, with the court cases? Because at one point, this thing became a wheel snake and I got lost. Specifically, who the heck is Sugarman that everyone keeps talking about?
Thanks.
Thanks.
Dramatis Personae
(From Who's Who on Dumpshock)
Note: The Loren Coleman associated with IMR is Loren L. Coleman, not Loren C. Coleman, the noted cryptozoologist.
Timeline
3 January - WildFire LLC, makers of CthulhuTech terminate business relationships with Catalyst Games Lab, due to non-payment of royalties and breach of contract.
? March - Dave Stansel-Garner had resigned about a week before Jennifer Harding did, for his own independent reasons.
15 March - Jennifer "Tiger Eyes" Harding resigns from CGL due to a personal ethics conflict, to whit: Loren Coleman asked her to falsify royalty reports to Topps; Randall Bills allegedly supported this decision.
16 March - Frank Trollman makes his original post, accusing Loren Coleman of stealing money from InMediaRes Productions LLC, of which Catalyst Game Labs is an imprint. Adam Jury resigns.
17 March - IMR puts out a press release talking about the financial mismanagement of the company.
? March - Several Shadowrun freelancers withdrew copyright on their works until paid, exact dates not given. This is not the first time CGL freelancers had withdrawn copyright until payment was made.
19 March - ICV2 announces that some Shadowrun and CthulhuTech book sales are frozen.
20 March - Jason Hardy posts a correction to ICV2's original post, which ICV2 incorporates on 22 March.
22 March - Bobby "Ancient History" Derie gets banned from the CGL freelancer forums and terminates his contracts, which sets back the development of several Shadowrun books. (More detail here). The sections of the books he worked on in development were assigned to other freelancers. Stephen McQuillian posts that several freelancers are not currently under Non-Disclosure Agreements (NDA).
27 March - Frank Trollman leaks Randal Bill's letter to the freelancers.
31 March - Dawn of the Artifacts: Midnight ships, despite the author (Jen Harding) having withdrawn copyright. Jason Hardy says this is an error that will be fixed.
1 April - Jason Hardy confirms that shipments of DotA: Midnight have ceased.
3 April - Jennifer Harding weighs in on DotA: Midnight and the situation at Catalyst. Jason Hardy responds. Peter "Synner" Taylor weighs in.
4 April - Jason Hardy issues an update, explaining that CGL is cutting checks for freelancers.
5 April - CGL transfers ownership of remaining CthulhuTech and Poo inventories to WildFire LLC.
6 April - Adam Jury confirms Posthuman Studios is in the process of severing their relationship with IMR as well. Jason Hardy confirms freelancer payments are being received.
8 April - Phil "Ketjak" DeLuca, one of IMR\'s owners, says some of Jennifer Harding's statements are confirmed in IMR's corporate documents, and then weighs in on the state of IMR - and clarifies a little.
12 April - Troy Garner is reportedly terminated from employ at CGL; his position is now taken by Tara Bills (wife of Randall Bills).
13 April - Adam Jury confirms Troy took his personal computer, which is also the shipping computer, with him when he left.
14 April - Phil DeLuca expands on his previous post. The graphs he talks about showing the Coleman\'s draws are posted by Droogydroog.
15 April - Stephen McQuillian reveals he is no longer working for CGL.
19 April - Three of IMR\'s creditors - Wildfire LLC (creators of CthulhuTech), J.P. Sugarbroad, and Paul Stansel file for a Ch.7 Bankruptcy against IMR.
? April - A humorous webcomic is posted.
21 April - IMR releases a statement concerning its financial situation.
4 May - Catalyst announces that Shadowrun books are no longer frozen.
12 May - A long-in-development deal with Lone Wolf Development is finally completed, sub-licensing Shadowrun for use with Hero Lab.
17 May - IMR answers the creditor's summons.
18 May - The creditors file two motions, one for immediate relief and another to shorten time.
19 May - Motion to shorten time is approved.
21 May - Hearing is held. The creditor\'s motion for immediate relief is denied. A pre-trial hearing is set for 18 June. IMR issues a statement.
Summary of Major Issues
I believe that takes care of the bulk of things. I didn't cover some little things, like Frank sending e-mails to Topps' legal counsel or statements that Topps and IMR are each doing audits. I don't think the Colemans' house is terribly important from a business standpoint, so I didn't include most of the links to that either. Anyone that thinks this should be amended or expanded, or is inaccurate, give a holler.
(From Who's Who on Dumpshock)
[ Spoiler ]
Note: The Loren Coleman associated with IMR is Loren L. Coleman, not Loren C. Coleman, the noted cryptozoologist.
Timeline
3 January - WildFire LLC, makers of CthulhuTech terminate business relationships with Catalyst Games Lab, due to non-payment of royalties and breach of contract.
? March - Dave Stansel-Garner had resigned about a week before Jennifer Harding did, for his own independent reasons.
15 March - Jennifer "Tiger Eyes" Harding resigns from CGL due to a personal ethics conflict, to whit: Loren Coleman asked her to falsify royalty reports to Topps; Randall Bills allegedly supported this decision.
16 March - Frank Trollman makes his original post, accusing Loren Coleman of stealing money from InMediaRes Productions LLC, of which Catalyst Game Labs is an imprint. Adam Jury resigns.
17 March - IMR puts out a press release talking about the financial mismanagement of the company.
? March - Several Shadowrun freelancers withdrew copyright on their works until paid, exact dates not given. This is not the first time CGL freelancers had withdrawn copyright until payment was made.
19 March - ICV2 announces that some Shadowrun and CthulhuTech book sales are frozen.
20 March - Jason Hardy posts a correction to ICV2's original post, which ICV2 incorporates on 22 March.
22 March - Bobby "Ancient History" Derie gets banned from the CGL freelancer forums and terminates his contracts, which sets back the development of several Shadowrun books. (More detail here). The sections of the books he worked on in development were assigned to other freelancers. Stephen McQuillian posts that several freelancers are not currently under Non-Disclosure Agreements (NDA).
27 March - Frank Trollman leaks Randal Bill's letter to the freelancers.
31 March - Dawn of the Artifacts: Midnight ships, despite the author (Jen Harding) having withdrawn copyright. Jason Hardy says this is an error that will be fixed.
1 April - Jason Hardy confirms that shipments of DotA: Midnight have ceased.
3 April - Jennifer Harding weighs in on DotA: Midnight and the situation at Catalyst. Jason Hardy responds. Peter "Synner" Taylor weighs in.
4 April - Jason Hardy issues an update, explaining that CGL is cutting checks for freelancers.
5 April - CGL transfers ownership of remaining CthulhuTech and Poo inventories to WildFire LLC.
6 April - Adam Jury confirms Posthuman Studios is in the process of severing their relationship with IMR as well. Jason Hardy confirms freelancer payments are being received.
8 April - Phil "Ketjak" DeLuca, one of IMR\'s owners, says some of Jennifer Harding's statements are confirmed in IMR's corporate documents, and then weighs in on the state of IMR - and clarifies a little.
12 April - Troy Garner is reportedly terminated from employ at CGL; his position is now taken by Tara Bills (wife of Randall Bills).
13 April - Adam Jury confirms Troy took his personal computer, which is also the shipping computer, with him when he left.
14 April - Phil DeLuca expands on his previous post. The graphs he talks about showing the Coleman\'s draws are posted by Droogydroog.
15 April - Stephen McQuillian reveals he is no longer working for CGL.
19 April - Three of IMR\'s creditors - Wildfire LLC (creators of CthulhuTech), J.P. Sugarbroad, and Paul Stansel file for a Ch.7 Bankruptcy against IMR.
? April - A humorous webcomic is posted.
21 April - IMR releases a statement concerning its financial situation.
4 May - Catalyst announces that Shadowrun books are no longer frozen.
12 May - A long-in-development deal with Lone Wolf Development is finally completed, sub-licensing Shadowrun for use with Hero Lab.
17 May - IMR answers the creditor's summons.
18 May - The creditors file two motions, one for immediate relief and another to shorten time.
19 May - Motion to shorten time is approved.
21 May - Hearing is held. The creditor\'s motion for immediate relief is denied. A pre-trial hearing is set for 18 June. IMR issues a statement.
Summary of Major Issues
- The license Topps has granted to InMediaRes Productions LLC runs out at the end of May, and is in negotiations for renewal.
- For a period of several years, freelancers have not been paid on time for their work by IMR; the company has over the last several weeks issued a number of checks to the freelancers to address this situation.
- FrankTrollman accused Loren L. Coleman of having stolen a large sum of money (he alleges about $850,000; the exact amount is unknown) from InMediaRes Productions LLC. These claims have been buoyed by graphs showing the draws the Colemans have made over the last several years. IMR released a press statement in response admitting financial mismanagement, and aims to address the situation. Loren L. Coleman remains in charge, but there have apparently been some change in financial management at the company.
- Several employees - David Stansel-Garner, Adam Jury, Jennifer Harding, and Stephen McQuillian - have willingly left employ at IMR for various reasons in a relatively short period of time. Troy Garner was terminated from his employment.
- WildFire LLC and Posthuman Studios, maker of CthulhuTech and Eclipse Phase respectively, have ended their business relationships with IMR.
- Several Shadowrun freelancers, including Bobby Derie and Jennifer Harding, have ceased their relationship with IMR or left the freelancer pool.
- FrankTrollman released a letter that had been sent to the freelancers by Randall Bills, explaining his reasons for supporting Loren L. Coleman. The \"leak\" of this letter and other documents, including drafts of chapters from other sourcebooks would have been covered by non-disclosure agreements, but many of the freelancers were not covered by NDAs. FrankTrollman has not revealed his sources. Jason Hardy responded to these leaks by enacting stricter security controls on the freelancer forums, and eventually abandoning the forums entirely.
- There have been substantial delays in the Shadowrun development process; most of the books recently released and currently under development were begun under previous line developers.
- CGL has been releasing a greater number of ebooks/.PDFs for BattleTech and Shadowrun over the last few weeks; there have been no new announcements of books sent to the printers.
- Three of IMR's creditors have begun a process to attempt and force the company into bankruptcy, in order to reclaim the monies they are owed. IMR is disputing the claims. The initial motion for immediate relief was denied, and the case will now move onto an evidentiary hearing.
I believe that takes care of the bulk of things. I didn't cover some little things, like Frank sending e-mails to Topps' legal counsel or statements that Topps and IMR are each doing audits. I don't think the Colemans' house is terribly important from a business standpoint, so I didn't include most of the links to that either. Anyone that thinks this should be amended or expanded, or is inaccurate, give a holler.
Try to keep the summary objective, please.
If anyone could do it, I'd put my money on AH, honestly.
I wouldn't, frankly I can also site posts to back up this belief Before all this? Yea sure, now not as much. I presume Grinder is feeling the same although that may be incorrect.
While I can cite many disagreements I've had with AH, I can also cite posts where he has attempted to analyze information regarding the current situation in as neutral a way as possible (with the assumption that very few of us, including me, can ever be entirely neutral).
Jason H.
Jason H.
I speculated about "a new licensee" but out of fairness, and while we are waiting for AH's summary, I thought it would be worth speculating what CGL/IMR would do if the license decision comes down in THEIR favor...
The SECOND that Topps says "you can keep the license" - maybe before the ink is even dry - I'd expect a veritable parade from CGL. It would be a way to say "We admitted a long time ago that mistakes were made, but as we said all along we were working to resolve the situation and get our house in order. And what is more, not only have we done that but Topps agrees." At that stage, although there would certainly be detractors still, they could move on with the business of making a great Roleplaying Game and stop running defense against a constant barrage of negative attacks.
So there you go - the other side of my best speculation about the future.
The SECOND that Topps says "you can keep the license" - maybe before the ink is even dry - I'd expect a veritable parade from CGL. It would be a way to say "We admitted a long time ago that mistakes were made, but as we said all along we were working to resolve the situation and get our house in order. And what is more, not only have we done that but Topps agrees." At that stage, although there would certainly be detractors still, they could move on with the business of making a great Roleplaying Game and stop running defense against a constant barrage of negative attacks.
So there you go - the other side of my best speculation about the future.
QUOTE
I doubt that a new licensee would have anything at the demo stage for this Summer.
I would speculate that 4 months without a print release, and no word yet on when anything might be getting released in print, isn't going to help... especially when I know that when I stopped writing for CGL, there were 5 items ready to print - DotA 3, Runners Toolkit, 6WA, Corp Guide, and Spells and Chrome. (Admittedly, when Jason yanked AH out of the freelancer pool, Jason had to rewrite portions of three of those.) I'm not counting the LE, which should have been ready months ago, as a print release (as it is simply the limited version of SR4A which had already been released), nor the Runner's Companion second printing. With one month left until Origins, and 9 weeks until GenCon... it looks like it will be a pretty sad summer season for CGL (I am not speculating on if they retain the SR license or not, mind you). I had been told that they wanted DotA3 for GenCon, but since it looks like CGL is now pushing the author of DotA3 around and has removed him from the freelancer pool as well, that might not happen either...
Thank you for sharing. After 3+ pages of "Legalese Wars 3: Return of the Semantics" I was afraid we all lost sight of what decent speculation really is.
Whatever happened to the vast freelancer conspiracy? Or speculation about who else might be bidding on the license?
QUOTE (augmentin @ May 27 2010, 04:43 PM)
Whatever happened to the vast freelancer conspiracy?
With everything that's been said in these threads, I'm not sure which tangent you're referring to with that statement. Hesitant as a I am to ask, could you expound on this one?
Okay, amended that post above with a rough timeline and cover of all the pertinent issues.
Bobby is amending his post above, but to be clear I have not been removed from the freelancer pool for Shadowrun. CGL is investigating options for other eBook developers in order to continue eBook development while we are in contract negotiations. They changed the terms of the contract, I disapproved of some of the changes, and they are now being reviewed by their legal team.
It should also be made clear that the "? March" was not the first time writers withheld their copyright in order to be paid.
I now return to my self-enforced silence on these matters.
It should also be made clear that the "? March" was not the first time writers withheld their copyright in order to be paid.
I now return to my self-enforced silence on these matters.
You left out that SR4LE's did see the street. It's minor true but if your going to cite it as a reason for concern you need to close the loop so to speak.. Other then that consider my previous concerns retracted/satisfied.
I only mentioned it because of the webcomic, honestly.
QUOTE (Ancient History @ May 27 2010, 11:20 AM)
[snip]
I believe that takes care of the bulk of things. I didn\'t cover some little things, like Frank sending e-mails to Topps\' legal counsel or statements that Topps and IMR are each doing audits. I don\'t think the Colemans\' house is terribly important from a business standpoint, so I didn\'t include most of the links to that either. Anyone that thinks this should be amended or expanded, or is inaccurate, give a holler.
I believe that takes care of the bulk of things. I didn\'t cover some little things, like Frank sending e-mails to Topps\' legal counsel or statements that Topps and IMR are each doing audits. I don\'t think the Colemans\' house is terribly important from a business standpoint, so I didn\'t include most of the links to that either. Anyone that thinks this should be amended or expanded, or is inaccurate, give a holler.
I think this is generally a good, even-handed rundown of the events, and I appreciate AH's efforts in putting it together. A few possible corrections:
1) It might be noted that the reasons Jennifer gave for resigning contain her perceptions, and Randall and Loren might see it differently;
2) While concerns about the delayed shipping of the SR4ALE are noted, the fact that the book was shipped and received is not mentioned; and
3) The summary mentions that no street dates have been given for hard copy items, but this is incorrect; Battletech Historicals: Operation Klondike and the Runner's Companion reprint streeted just last Tuesday, the 24th.
4) There have been multiple rounds of payments that have gone out.
Again, it is difficult for anyone, including me, to be entirely neutral, so these corrections naturally come with my own biases. People can do with them as they will.
Jason H.
Damn screwy links.
Okay, made a few changes based on Jason's statements.
Okay, made a few changes based on Jason's statements.
Great job AH, thanks. Now I know the whole Sugarloaf thing.
My only other suggestion is making a quick note about how Loren L. Coleman, IMR owner, and Loren Coleman, cryptozoologist, aren't the same person, merely to keep people from emailing the latter?
My only other suggestion is making a quick note about how Loren L. Coleman, IMR owner, and Loren Coleman, cryptozoologist, aren't the same person, merely to keep people from emailing the latter?
I see today the Cthulhutech website is gone. Anyone know the status of Wildfire?
The CthulhuTech site is working for me.
QUOTE (Prime Mover @ May 27 2010, 08:28 PM)
I see today the Cthulhutech website is gone. Anyone know the status of Wildfire?
They're aware of it; domain renewal issues.
QUOTE (Catadmin @ May 27 2010, 04:52 PM)
With everything that's been said in these threads, I'm not sure which tangent you're referring to with that statement. Hesitant as a I am to ask, could you expound on this one?
My search skills evidently aren't up to snuff. At some point in CGL Speculation #x it was alleged that some of the former freelancers were actively working to ensure CGL didn't get the license so that they could go work for the a new company. As far as I know it was no more substantiated than anything else that's been said here. Though someone wrote a very entertaining Shadowrun adventure plot around CGL hiring a Johnson to doublecross the former freelancers and force Topps to renew the license.
QUOTE (augmentin @ May 28 2010, 11:12 AM)
My search skills evidently aren't up to snuff. At some point in CGL Speculation #x it was alleged that some of the former freelancers were actively working to ensure CGL didn't get the license so that they could go work for the a new company. As far as I know it was no more substantiated than anything else that's been said here. Though someone wrote a very entertaining Shadowrun adventure plot around CGL hiring a Johnson to doublecross the former freelancers and force Topps to renew the license.
I must of missed that, but I love the idea of the adventure plot, would love to see it
Regardless of whether CGL can maintain the license or not, the main question should be, "what is the future of the shadowrun universe?" There's been a lot of speculation in posts about the impact of a large number of BT freelancers descending on the SR world. I'm taking a wait-and-see attitude right now. On the one hand, Drops of Corruption showed that Hardy has an interest in street-level politics that honestly wasn't there when Kenson was doing a good chunk of the writing. On the other hand, I have real doubts that many of the new freelancers have an awareness of the history of Shadowrun and all the tiny plot threads woven throughout its existence.
QUOTE (fastdos @ May 27 2010, 10:46 PM)
Regardless of whether CGL can maintain the license or not, the main question should be, "what is the future of the shadowrun universe?" There's been a lot of speculation in posts about the impact of a large number of BT freelancers descending on the SR world. I'm taking a wait-and-see attitude right now. On the one hand, Drops of Corruption showed that Hardy has an interest in street-level politics that honestly wasn't there when Kenson was doing a good chunk of the writing. On the other hand, I have real doubts that many of the new freelancers have an awareness of the history of Shadowrun and all the tiny plot threads woven throughout its existence.
There is not "a large number of BT freelancers descending on the SR world." Some freelancers who have worked on BT also want to work on SR; some of them started a while ago, and have stories in Spells & Chrome (which were, for the most part, written well over a year ago, so they've been thinking about the setting for a while). The majority of current SR freelancers came to SR because they love and know SR. Most of them have either already published SR material, or had SR material in the works when I was hired, or had been added to the pool before I came on. There has been this perception that the entire freelancer pool drained in the past few months, and I had to scramble to fill it up with new people and BT writers. That simply is not the case.
Sorry if I'm overly detailed--just wanted to make sure that was clear.
Jason H.
QUOTE (JM Hardy @ May 27 2010, 02:01 PM)
2) While concerns about the delayed shipping of the SR4ALE are noted, the fact that the book was shipped and received is not mentioned; and
Really? You think that CGL/IMR should get a pat on the back, or a cookie, or something because the book finally shipped? Nearly 14 months after taking customers money the LE version of a book that had already been printed finally shipped. Getting this shipped is akin to paying back payments to freelancers IMO. Sorry, but CGL/IMR (or any other company for that matter) doesn't get an atta-boy from me because they eventually fulfill their basic obligations.
PS - AH, that summary was very helpful. I know that I don't have time to sift through the pages of this, and that summary helped me to find some of the things I'd seen referenced. As things continue to develop would you be willing to update that post (possibly putting a 'last updated xxx at the bottom)?
QUOTE (Caadium @ May 27 2010, 11:35 PM)
Really? You think that CGL/IMR should get a pat on the back, or a cookie, or something because the book finally shipped? Nearly 14 months after taking customers money the LE version of a book that had already been printed finally shipped. Getting this shipped is akin to paying back payments to freelancers IMO. Sorry, but CGL/IMR (or any other company for that matter) doesn't get an atta-boy from me because they eventually fulfill their basic obligations.
PS - AH, that summary was very helpful. I know that I don't have time to sift through the pages of this, and that summary helped me to find some of the things I'd seen referenced. As things continue to develop would you be willing to update that post (possibly putting a 'last updated xxx at the bottom)?
PS - AH, that summary was very helpful. I know that I don't have time to sift through the pages of this, and that summary helped me to find some of the things I'd seen referenced. As things continue to develop would you be willing to update that post (possibly putting a 'last updated xxx at the bottom)?
As I've said before, I understand that the wait was too long and should not have happened. I was not seeking an atta-boy, but if the question of the ongoing delays was brought up, I thought it should be reflected that the delay finally ended. That's all.
Jason H.
QUOTE (Caadium @ May 27 2010, 11:35 PM)
Really? You think that CGL/IMR should get a pat on the back, or a cookie, or something because the book finally shipped? Nearly 14 months after taking customers money the LE version of a book that had already been printed finally shipped. Getting this shipped is akin to paying back payments to freelancers IMO. Sorry, but CGL/IMR (or any other company for that matter) doesn't get an atta-boy from me because they eventually fulfill their basic obligations.
Or it could just be a correction of something that was mistated, to contribute to the neutral and balanced summary (well done on that, Ancient), rather than looking for recognition. I won't try to speak for Mr. Hardy, but I might recommend no one else does either.
Some info about the actual members of IMR would be helpful too. There was some information which hinted at there being some trouble with filing registration paperwork and/or tax forms, or at least some discrepancies between the two, laid at the feet of a lawyer.
QUOTE (Fuchs @ May 28 2010, 03:13 AM)
Some info about the actual members of IMR would be helpful too.
It was my impression that the pages and pages of back-and-forth on that subject is what got the previous thread locked. Unlike other concerns discussed in these threads, those in a position to provide definitive answers to that question seem to have already said all that they're willing to say on the subject at this time. Sure there are still questions that are left out there hanging, but we may just have to accept that we'll have to wait for whatever choice nuggets of information that happen to come out in further courtroom documents released to the public.
There were pages of going back and forth related to a rather grammatical tangent, and about standards lawyers could be held to.
But for actual information concerning the membership of IMR LLC it was said and not disputed that there was a discrepancy between what's officially registrated and what was agreed upon between several people involved.
But for actual information concerning the membership of IMR LLC it was said and not disputed that there was a discrepancy between what's officially registrated and what was agreed upon between several people involved.
And I think that's all that the parties directly involved are going to volunteer to put forward. I'd love to be proven wrong.
Should be mentioned in the summary then.
while I'm loathe to admit it - I do like lurking in Frank's forum, and between the vitriol, there's often some interesting truths to be found.
for example: http://tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?p=149765#149765
now, while I have no idea who Laughing man is - nor do I particularly care - Sandstorm Productions LLC does indeed exist, and is indeed populated by few familiar names. In fact, Ergo and Balance of Power (which were both upcoming CGL games) designers the Brothers Knudson are both listed in "About Us" section - not sure if that means Closet Nerd Games has become Sandstorm, or its a license situation.
And while I don't particularly care for his/her style of presentation - it does beg the question how much is accurate. I certainly hope not a lot, because I've always found DSG to be a stand up guy. But so is Randall (until you've worked with him, you simply can't have any idea how much of his heart, soul and body Randall puts into CGL), and I'm being asked to believe from other quarters that he's in on the whole Loren thing. (which I sincerely doubt)
food for thought anyway, and answers Augmentin's question about "freelancer conspiracy"
edit: got Closet Nerd/Closed Mind mixed up
for example: http://tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?p=149765#149765
now, while I have no idea who Laughing man is - nor do I particularly care - Sandstorm Productions LLC does indeed exist, and is indeed populated by few familiar names. In fact, Ergo and Balance of Power (which were both upcoming CGL games) designers the Brothers Knudson are both listed in "About Us" section - not sure if that means Closet Nerd Games has become Sandstorm, or its a license situation.
And while I don't particularly care for his/her style of presentation - it does beg the question how much is accurate. I certainly hope not a lot, because I've always found DSG to be a stand up guy. But so is Randall (until you've worked with him, you simply can't have any idea how much of his heart, soul and body Randall puts into CGL), and I'm being asked to believe from other quarters that he's in on the whole Loren thing. (which I sincerely doubt)
food for thought anyway, and answers Augmentin's question about "freelancer conspiracy"
edit: got Closet Nerd/Closed Mind mixed up
Interesting indeed. Especially since it depicts both Loren L. Coleman and David M. Stansel as "evil".
ah, it seems Closet Nerd was acquired by Sandstorm, with CN being continued an in-house studio according to their Facebook page
edit: guess we know who IMR's competition for the licenses is lol
edit: guess we know who IMR's competition for the licenses is lol
Hard to get confirmation about the actions David Stansel took according to the "fairy tale" post.
I have no idea what "his (David) husband's disabled brother brought in most of the gold" refers to though.
I have no idea what "his (David) husband's disabled brother brought in most of the gold" refers to though.
QUOTE (augmentin @ May 27 2010, 02:43 PM)
Whatever happened to the vast freelancer conspiracy? Or speculation about who else might be bidding on the license?
Are you referring to the Trollman propaganda?
QUOTE (Fuchs @ May 28 2010, 04:50 AM)
Hard to get confirmation about the actions David Stansel took according to the "fairy tale" post.
I have no idea what "his (David) husband's disabled brother brought in most of the gold" refers to though.
I have no idea what "his (David) husband's disabled brother brought in most of the gold" refers to though.
Trent Garner, Troy's twin brother who recently passed. He was a great guy, an injustice in the world that he was hit with a stroke at such a young age.
Edit: Troy being Dave's husband.
edit: Ken` answered it better than I
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.