Dread Moores
Jun 11 2010, 04:36 AM
QUOTE (urgru @ Jun 10 2010, 10:48 PM)
Take away: Sandstorm LLC is now publishing for Wildfire. Perhaps more interestingly, Sansdtorm's kicker text at the end of the press release mentions a partnership with Posthuman. Sandstorm put out a press release about Closet Nerd earlier and the substance of this PR is about Wildfire, but there's not been a full blown statement regarding Posthuman. This is essentially a backdoor announcement that they'll also be publishing Eclipse Phase. Or a massive screwup. But they're probably publishing Eclipse Phase.
That's awesome news. I'm really looking forward to more Ctech material. And I always liked Dave and Troy.
Let's just hope the resolution of the lawsuit doesn't hurt them too badly, if it goes against Wildfire. Any more news on that, btw?
Method
Jun 11 2010, 04:20 PM
Cross post from the Official Announcements thread.
Excerpt from
Rob Boyle's blog:
QUOTE
May 10, 2010
I’ve been neglecting this blog for too long, and now I have a pile of news and updates to catch up on.
Catalyst Woes: In March some unfortunate news came to light at Catalyst Game Labs concerning, as they put it, the improper “co-mingling” of company funds. I’m not going to comment on the situation here, but you can read what CGL has to say in the press releases on their website and there are numerous threads full of rumor and speculation on various RPG forums. Due to what was going on, however, both Adam Jury and myself decided to part ways with CGL. We also immediately went about severing the license between Posthuman Studios and CGL for Eclipse Phase, so now that game is entirely back in our hands. Many of our friends and former colleagues have also distanced themselves from CGL, and WildFire also severed their license and reclaimed their Cthulhutech line. It remains to be seen how the CGL situation will play out, but I’m very sad that many of my friends have had their livelihoods disrupted by this turn of events.
Posthuman Futures: On the positive side, Adam, Brian, and myself are making progress on taking Posthuman Studios up a few notches. We plan to continue publishing Eclipse Phase (and also some other games) in the future and are arranging our business so that Posthuman will handle all EP production itself. We are making an arrangement with a new publishing partner who will handle our printing, warehousing, and fulfillment. We’re doing our best to turn misfortune into opportunity, and we have some exciting plans in the works, so expect to hear much more from us soon.
Emphasis mine.
Caadium
Jun 11 2010, 04:22 PM
QUOTE (Method @ Jun 11 2010, 08:20 AM)
Cross post from the Official Announcements thread.
Excerpt from Rob Boyle's blog:
Emphasis mine.
I tend to agree with your emphasis, but as I stated earlier until either company confirms it is still just speculation (even if its speculation that seems very likely).
Cardul
Jun 11 2010, 05:54 PM
Does this mean that Sandstorm owns its own printers? If so...that could be good for those who publish through them.
BlueMax
Jun 11 2010, 05:55 PM
Well this is a speculation thread
otakusensei
Jun 11 2010, 05:57 PM
QUOTE (Cardul @ Jun 11 2010, 01:54 PM)
Does this mean that Sandstorm owns its own printers? If so...that could be good for those who publish through them.
I'm guessing they handle dealing with the printers, but you never know.
Caadium
Jun 11 2010, 06:10 PM
QUOTE (otakusensei @ Jun 11 2010, 09:57 AM)
I'm guessing they handle dealing with the printers, but you never know.
I would imagine, again pure speculation here, that if multiple companies are all placing orders through 1 name or business partner, Sandstorm in this instance, it would help with pricing. From the printer's perspective instead of 4 companies placing orders, one company is placing more orders.
I'm sure pricing is based, in large part, on quantity ordered per order, but having 1 company with 1 good relationship with the printers can't hurt things for their partners.
emouse
Jun 11 2010, 08:59 PM
I imagine it's essentially the same setup that CGL had. Sandstorm/CGL is essentially given a PDF or whatever other files are needed to produce the physical item, they send that off to the printers (potentially even the same printer), and then handle marketing and distribution as well. The manufacturing and distribution end is where consolidation pays off the most, resulting in discounts from the printer, and decreased overhead for warehousing.
Tiger Eyes
Jun 11 2010, 09:04 PM
QUOTE (Caadium @ Jun 11 2010, 02:10 PM)
I would imagine, again pure speculation here, that if multiple companies are all placing orders through 1 name or business partner, Sandstorm in this instance, it would help with pricing. From the printer's perspective instead of 4 companies placing orders, one company is placing more orders.
I'm sure pricing is based, in large part, on quantity ordered per order, but having 1 company with 1 good relationship with the printers can't hurt things for their partners.
That's a fairly common economic principal. Many vendors will give a discount or price break if you send a certain # of orders in - ie, 0 discount for 1 order, 3% for 3, 5% for 5... etc. So if you have multiple companies sending in orders via one agent, everyone gets the benefit.
You also can often negotiate a price savings if you are able to pay in full up front, versus having to have credit with the vendor. This goes from tee-shirts to books and everything in between. You can do this on a personal scale, too - go into an appliance store and offer to buy 5 laundry machines, and ask for a 5% discount from list price, and you'll probably get it.
(Sometimes I think I'd like 5 laundry machines... get all the laundry done at once.... sigh...)
Caadium
Jun 11 2010, 09:14 PM
QUOTE (Tiger Eyes @ Jun 11 2010, 01:04 PM)
That's a fairly common economic principal. Many vendors will give a discount or price break if you send a certain # of orders in - ie, 0 discount for 1 order, 3% for 3, 5% for 5... etc. So if you have multiple companies sending in orders via one agent, everyone gets the benefit.
You also can often negotiate a price savings if you are able to pay in full up front, versus having to have credit with the vendor. This goes from tee-shirts to books and everything in between. You can do this on a personal scale, too - go into an appliance store and offer to buy 5 laundry machines, and ask for a 5% discount from list price, and you'll probably get it.
(Sometimes I think I'd like 5 laundry machines... get all the laundry done at once.... sigh...)
Since you are here Jennifer, would you care to comment on the little line in the release about the relationship between Sandstorm and Posthuman?
Saint Sithney
Jun 11 2010, 10:02 PM
So, Sandstorm is the team's Face? Nuff said.
Jaid
Jun 11 2010, 10:13 PM
on the other side of things, posthuman studios is currently selling through drivethrurpg, so they may not be entirely switching over to another company (or that other company may be handling only print). certainly, the folks over at posthuman have relatively recently started a program where they'll basically transfer your purchase of eclipse phase over to drivethrurpg, which implies they intend to stay with them (for pdf media, at least) for a while. otherwise it's just a whole lot of wasted effort.
Dread Moores
Jun 12 2010, 01:23 AM
Yeah, even Ctech is still on sale through dtrpg. Their newest book, just released yesterday on PDF, is on sale over there right now. Makes sense to use that place you already have a relationship and distribution set up with, rather than going through an entirely different webstore for Sandstorm. Well, at least until a webstore for Sandstorm is set up.
Dwight
Jun 12 2010, 02:09 AM
Sooooo, I've been away for a while. Is Shadowrun dead yet?
Cheops
Jun 12 2010, 01:01 PM
Not dead yet. But the writing on the wall is getting clearer and bigger by the day for CGL/IMR. A franchise that earns as much as was "mistakenly comingled" is unlikely to die.
Still eagerly awaiting my SR5 announcement.
emouse
Jun 12 2010, 01:21 PM
QUOTE (Dwight @ Jun 12 2010, 02:09 AM)
Sooooo, I've been away for a while. Is Shadowrun dead yet?
NECA has bought the license and will be using it to reissue Shadowrun Duels.
emouse
Jun 12 2010, 01:27 PM
QUOTE (Jaid @ Jun 11 2010, 10:13 PM)
on the other side of things, posthuman studios is currently selling through drivethrurpg, so they may not be entirely switching over to another company (or that other company may be handling only print). certainly, the folks over at posthuman have relatively recently started a program where they'll basically transfer your purchase of eclipse phase over to drivethrurpg, which implies they intend to stay with them (for pdf media, at least) for a while. otherwise it's just a whole lot of wasted effort.
Even when they were published by Catalyst, Eclipse Phase was available through DriveThru. DriveThru is a retailer, not a publisher. When they sign up with a new publisher, the books will probably still be available through DriveThru, though possibly under Sandstorm's label. It depends on what the deal is between Sandstorm and their new partners.
MindandPen
Jun 12 2010, 02:34 PM
QUOTE (Dwight @ Jun 11 2010, 09:09 PM)
Sooooo, I've been away for a while. Is Shadowrun dead yet?
The license was bought by The Evil Twirling Mustache Company owned by the Great Dragon Trollman and his band of Immortal Elves. They announced that on April 1, 2011, they will release SR6, the Cyber Unicorn Version. The first adventure will be titled "The Dumpshock Wars" which will include Lone Star Cops, Belly Button rings, Pixie Clanks, Drop Bears, and anything else they can squeeze in while changing the setting to a Steam Punk environment.
-M&P
Steelfang
Jun 12 2010, 02:43 PM
QUOTE (Cardul @ Jun 11 2010, 10:54 AM)
Does this mean that Sandstorm owns its own printers? If so...that could be good for those who publish through them.
How could they? They are start up just created by the those that left CGL. i doubt that they have financial resources to start a full blown printing enterpirse. What they do have is connections into the printing businenss and they can act as an intermeidary between the creative folks and the printers. They are going to be doing the same kind of job that CGL was doing for Wildfire and Posthuman.
Dread Moores
Jun 12 2010, 03:08 PM
QUOTE (Steelfang @ Jun 12 2010, 09:43 AM)
How could they? They are start up just created by the those that left CGL. i doubt that they have financial resources to start a full blown printing enterpirse. What they do have is connections into the printing businenss and they can act as an intermeidary between the creative folks and the printers. They are going to be doing the same kind of job that CGL was doing for Wildfire and Posthuman.
Well, hopefully not exactly the same job as CGL.
Catadmin
Jun 12 2010, 04:22 PM
QUOTE (MindandPen @ Jun 12 2010, 09:34 AM)
The license was bought by The Evil Twirling Mustache Company owned by the Great Dragon Trollman and his band of Immortal Elves. They announced that on April 1, 2011, they will release SR6, the Cyber Unicorn Version. The first adventure will be titled "The Dumpshock Wars" which will include Lone Star Cops, Belly Button rings, Pixie Clanks, Drop Bears, and anything else they can squeeze in while changing the setting to a Steam Punk environment.
-M&P
Okay, that is the BEST version you've come up with yet. I love it.
MindandPen
Jun 12 2010, 06:04 PM
QUOTE (Catadmin @ Jun 12 2010, 11:22 AM)
Okay, that is the BEST version you've come up with yet. I love it.
And it only took HOW many drafts?
That's the thing I've noticed with writing, you keep refining it until someone says "That's It!" (or "Turn it in NOW!")
-M&P
Deadmannumberone
Jun 12 2010, 08:30 PM
QUOTE (MindandPen @ Jun 12 2010, 07:34 AM)
The license was bought by The Evil Twirling Mustache Company owned by the Great Dragon Trollman and his band of Immortal Elves. They announced that on April 1, 2011, they will release SR6, the Cyber Unicorn Version. The first adventure will be titled "The Dumpshock Wars" which will include Lone Star Cops, Belly Button rings, Pixie Clanks, Drop Bears, and anything else they can squeeze in while changing the setting to a Steam Punk environment.
-M&P
It's his band of Immortal Trolls, not Immortal Elves.
Martin_DeVries_Institute
Jun 12 2010, 08:50 PM
QUOTE (MindandPen @ Jun 12 2010, 06:34 AM)
The license was bought by The Evil Twirling Mustache Company owned by the Great Dragon Trollman and his
band of Immortal Elves."Portland are you ready to ROCK! Please welcome... Trollman and the Cabal! Featuring Har'lea'quin on keyboards! Aina Dupree on bass! Aithne Oakforest on drums! Trollman on lead synthtar, playing his custom V-neck--playing BOTH frets while using his tail as a pick! And on lead vocals... please welcome... Miss Jenna ni Fiarra! With back-up performances by the Seelie Court dancers. Opening act: a spoken-word performance of poetry by Ehran the Scribe!"
Tiger Eyes
Jun 12 2010, 10:56 PM
QUOTE (Caadium @ Jun 11 2010, 05:14 PM)
Since you are here Jennifer, would you care to comment on the little line in the release about the relationship between Sandstorm and Posthuman?
Sandstorm Press Releases
Method
Jun 12 2010, 10:59 PM
Updated Official Announcements thread.
Dread Moores
Jun 12 2010, 11:53 PM
That's also great news to hear, for Sandstorm and Posthuman.
Caadium
Jun 13 2010, 12:33 AM
QUOTE (Tiger Eyes @ Jun 12 2010, 02:56 PM)
Thanks!
otakusensei
Jun 13 2010, 04:29 AM
Man, I wish I worked in a dodgeball friendly industry...
Adam
Jun 13 2010, 04:43 AM
There were a couple years when we played games outside the White Wolf party, at Gen Con. Sadly for that, the White Wolf party moved to a different location downtown where it wouldn't be practical to play in the street.
If only there was a nearby basketball court or something ...
Anyone in the Chicago area, the game is in the Fifth Third Bank parking lot, near the Milwaukee/Division intersection, every Thursday night, starting around 11PMish.
You might be advised to not park your car nearby, if you're driving in.
RunnerPaul
Jun 13 2010, 11:48 AM
QUOTE (otakusensei @ Jun 13 2010, 12:29 AM)
Man, I wish I worked in a dodgeball friendly industry...
Screw dodgeball. 4-Square, especially on the collegiate level or higher, is the true sport of choice.
augmentin
Jun 14 2010, 04:03 PM
QUOTE (Abstruse @ Jun 10 2010, 02:00 AM)
I've come to like 4e a lot more recently as a rules system, but the world building and metaplot leave a lot to be desired.
I love Ghostwalker. I love technomancers (even if I think they're a tad overpowered as PCs).
The only problem with the way Tir Tairnegire's been handled in 4e is that it's all off-screen. 2 decades of story was resolved with a single line in the "How It Came to Pass" section of the new BBB, which pisses me off. Want to close it off and banish IEs to the far, far background? Cool. Just don't take a story I've been following since I was thirteen fucking years old with a lot of investment in all the characters, then just say "Oh, the rebels that may or may not have been lead by Harlequin won and took over and now the country's in economic collapse now let's move on to how awesome all the new stuff we wrote about Evo and Horizon is."
It's indicative of what I don't like about how 4e's metaplot has been handled -- focused exclusively on down-and-dirty street-level play and ignoring those of us who like the IEs and dragons and Deus turning the Archology into a horror show that would may the dude from Saw gag and Dunkelzahn's will and all that other stuff. I'm missing that in 4e and I want it back.
IMO, the last good book for Shadowrun I've read was Dragons of the Sixth World. That's not saying much though because the only competition is Emergence. Every other book has been core rulebook expansions (Street Magic, Augmentation, etc) or location books ("Ooh, let's do 2500 words on this place that had an entire sourcebook in 1st/2nd ed and spend the entire thing recapping what was said in there!") The potential stall in production due to the loss of the freelancers and the shady business practices that might cost the company the license pisses me off because, frankly, there's not much else they CAN write about other than getting back to the damn metaplot or coming out with a new edition of the rules and all the core books solely to attempt to make a buck.
Been out of town, but you know, this post is awesome. QFT.
(Oh yeah, and we need more NAN action, too.)
Banaticus
Jun 14 2010, 07:42 PM
QUOTE (Abstruse @ Jun 9 2010, 11:00 PM)
because, frankly, there's not much else they CAN write about other than getting back to the damn metaplot or coming out with a new edition of the rules and all the core books
Isn't that supposed to be next year? I remember one of the CGL people saying once that some new book wasn't going to be coming out because it was too late in the product cycle for this edition. I could have misunderstood what he was saying, though.
Demonseed Elite
Jun 14 2010, 07:56 PM
QUOTE (Banaticus @ Jun 14 2010, 02:42 PM)
Isn't that supposed to be next year? I remember one of the CGL people saying once that some new book wasn't going to be coming out because it was too late in the product cycle for this edition. I could have misunderstood what he was saying, though.
I think you must have misunderstood whatever they were saying.
otakusensei
Jun 14 2010, 08:14 PM
Well
fuck.
So is this the extension through GenCon or the whole next three years?
LurkerOutThere
Jun 14 2010, 08:20 PM
Even if I see this as good news I presume the current extension is likely through the con season. It is possible it's for another year and Randal doesn't want to come out and say so until the ink is dry. Even so I'd say this increases the chances they'll keep the license.
Larsine
Jun 14 2010, 08:25 PM
QUOTE (Banaticus @ Jun 14 2010, 09:42 PM)
I remember one of the CGL people saying once that some new book wasn't going to be coming out because it was too late in the product cycle for this edition.
Jason said so i the last chat. I asked when the "enhanced" versions (think SR4 -> SR4A) of the core rule books was comming out, and Jason said it was to late in the production cycle to re-publish them as "enhanced" versions.
Lars
emouse
Jun 14 2010, 08:29 PM
The 'imminent' deal is for the long term extension. The press release already states they're working on an operational extension which was part of their original license, and probably would have been in effect until Topps made a decision on the new licensee.
That's my understanding, anyhow.
It sounds like a done deal, but there's always the left field or chicken counting contingencies.
lehesu
Jun 14 2010, 08:30 PM
Well, jeez. They haven't mentioned for how long so that clearly means CGL is doomed and will never succeed ever.
Lucyfersam
Jun 14 2010, 08:30 PM
QUOTE (otakusensei @ Jun 14 2010, 02:14 PM)
Well
fuck.
So is this the extension through GenCon or the whole next three years?
My guess is that is either through GenCon or a year at most, if it was a full 3 year renewal I expect they would have phrased it as such rather than using the term extension.
However, either way I agree that this makes it much more likely for them to keep the license beyond this extension as long as they show they have gotten their shit together during the extension period.
Lucy
LurkerOutThere
Jun 14 2010, 08:33 PM
On second read it looks like an Extension as laid out in the contract, someone said three years so that's a possibility. Either way good news as far as I'm concerned. Que up the teeth gnashing either way, promises of piracy, promises of boycott etc.
emouse
Jun 14 2010, 08:41 PM
By 'long term' I'm thinking minimum of 1 year. There could well be some additional outs for Topps in the new contract that we don't know about, making the duration less of an issue. I'd say it's clear that this is CGL's second chance, so hopefully they've learned their lessons.
Jaid
Jun 14 2010, 08:51 PM
QUOTE (Banaticus @ Jun 14 2010, 02:42 PM)
Isn't that supposed to be next year? I remember one of the CGL people saying once that some new book wasn't going to be coming out because it was too late in the product cycle for this edition. I could have misunderstood what he was saying, though.
QUOTE (Larsine @ Jun 14 2010, 03:25 PM)
Jason said so i the last chat. I asked when the "enhanced" versions (think SR4 -> SR4A) of the core rule books was comming out, and Jason said it was to late in the production cycle to re-publish them as "enhanced" versions.
Lars
at a guess, what he probably meant was "not enough people are going to repurchase the other books to make it financially viable" (and given their current financial situation, i expect they wouldn't want to do much of anything unless they're really confident it will turn a profit).
i mean, it's not like it's that much later than SR4A... the difference is that pretty much everyone with an interest in the game will pick up the main book, whereas maybe half, if that, would pick up the added books i'd say.
Caduceus
Jun 14 2010, 08:53 PM
QUOTE (Abstruse @ Jun 10 2010, 12:00 AM)
I've come to like 4e a lot more recently as a rules system, but the world building and metaplot leave a lot to be desired.
I love Ghostwalker. I love technomancers (even if I think they're a tad overpowered as PCs).
The only problem with the way Tir Tairnegire's been handled in 4e is that it's all off-screen. 2 decades of story was resolved with a single line in the "How It Came to Pass" section of the new BBB, which pisses me off. Want to close it off and banish IEs to the far, far background? Cool. Just don't take a story I've been following since I was thirteen fucking years old with a lot of investment in all the characters, then just say "Oh, the rebels that may or may not have been lead by Harlequin won and took over and now the country's in economic collapse now let's move on to how awesome all the new stuff we wrote about Evo and Horizon is."
It's indicative of what I don't like about how 4e's metaplot has been handled -- focused exclusively on down-and-dirty street-level play and ignoring those of us who like the IEs and dragons and Deus turning the Archology into a horror show that would may the dude from Saw gag and Dunkelzahn's will and all that other stuff. I'm missing that in 4e and I want it back.
IMO, the last good book for Shadowrun I've read was Dragons of the Sixth World. That's not saying much though because the only competition is Emergence. Every other book has been core rulebook expansions (Street Magic, Augmentation, etc) or location books ("Ooh, let's do 2500 words on this place that had an entire sourcebook in 1st/2nd ed and spend the entire thing recapping what was said in there!") The potential stall in production due to the loss of the freelancers and the shady business practices that might cost the company the license pisses me off because, frankly, there's not much else they CAN write about other than getting back to the damn metaplot or coming out with a new edition of the rules and all the core books solely to attempt to make a buck.
Yeah, nothing like dragging around 20 years of esoteric plot and overpowered Mary-Sue type characters to make it easy for new players to pick up your game and get into it.
You've also clearly not checked out Dawn of the Artifacts, since their backplot is entirely stemming from Dunklezahn's will and various immortal elves. I won't say more to avoid spoilers, but everything you're "missing in 4e" is is pretty apparent in the first two DotAs. Maybe not coming right out and hitting you in the face with it, but there's two more planned and then a follow up book , so I think you'll be okay.
Kid Chameleon
Jun 14 2010, 08:54 PM
QUOTE (emouse @ Jun 14 2010, 02:41 PM)
By 'long term' I'm thinking minimum of 1 year. There could well be some additional outs for Topps in the new contract that we don't know about, making the duration less of an issue. I'd say it's clear that this is CGL's second chance, so hopefully they've learned their lessons.
We'd like to think so. Of course, these things don't happen in an instant. It takes a long time to rebuild a tarnished reputation.
Rotbart van Dainig
Jun 14 2010, 08:55 PM
QUOTE (Jaid @ Jun 14 2010, 10:51 PM)
at a guess, what he probably meant was "not enough people are going to repurchase the other books to make it financially viable" (and given their current financial situation, i expect they wouldn't want to do much of anything unless they're really confident it will turn a profit).
Of course, the core rule books stagnating and never catching up to the current main rule book is a sad state of affairs.
QUOTE (Jaid @ Jun 14 2010, 10:51 PM)
i mean, it's not like it's that much later than SR4A... the difference is that pretty much everyone with an interest in the game will pick up the main book, whereas maybe half, if that, would pick up the added books i'd say.
Actually, putting out shiny, updated crunch books might be the best selling thing short of SR5.
On the other had, if it's "too late in the production cycle" for the former, it says something about the latter.
BlueMax
Jun 14 2010, 08:57 PM
QUOTE (Caduceus @ Jun 14 2010, 01:53 PM)
You've also clearly not checked out Dawn of the Artifacts, since their backplot is entirely stemming from Dunklezahn's will and various immortal elves. I won't say more to avoid spoilers, but everything you're "missing in 4e" is is pretty apparent in the first two DotAs. Maybe not coming right out and hitting you in the face with it, but there's two more planned and then a follow up book , so I think you'll be okay.
In his defense, your pointing out one relatively new book from SR4. SR4 has been out years and years.
A concise well written history can bring in new players. It happens all the time for Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk, Dark Sun and even Battletech (speaking of over powered characters, SunTzu "fiat" Liao). You don't need to piss on the past to have a future.
Or at least, I don't think you do... I may be wrong.
BlueMax
/may have no future.
urgru
Jun 14 2010, 09:04 PM
A Topps official saying that they're "supportive" and expect IMR to regain its financial footing pretty much knifes the involuntary bankruptcy petition. It will be interesting to see whether Wildfire et. all attempt to withdraw it voluntarily or go through with the hearing on Friday.
darthmord
Jun 14 2010, 09:09 PM
QUOTE (emouse @ Jun 14 2010, 03:41 PM)
By 'long term' I'm thinking minimum of 1 year. There could well be some additional outs for Topps in the new contract that we don't know about, making the duration less of an issue. I'd say it's clear that this is CGL's second chance, so hopefully they've learned their lessons.
It's not uncommon in contracting to have an initial term coupled with additional option years.
For instance, the contract I'm working on was for 2 years as the initial term with 6 option years. Since contracting and licensing have a significant amount in common, I would not be surprised to see an extension come up. That also neatly explains why there has been little word regarding the license.
Method
Jun 14 2010, 09:10 PM
urgru: where did you hear that Topps said that? Did I miss something? Is there an official statement or is this hearsay?
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