Ya, I'm not a fan of the infection during game play rules either. The bonuses for being a ghoul are pretty good, but the social draw backs of being an infected mutant cannibal are horrendous, and the idea that anyone would allow a power 8, contact vector zombie plague anywhere near a city, letalone granting it citizenship is beyond stupid.

Agreed.

"oooh but Ghouls are people too!"

Exactly, and their community will fit in just fine right next to the leper colonies on whatever remote area.

EDIT: Seriously it isn't even just the Power 8 (as if that wasn't bad enough), what the hell is up with Penetration -6? Do Ghouls have acid blood or something?

Karoline mentioned nanites. O-cells "reduce the Power of any viral or bacterial pathogens that infect the host by its rating", and come with a maximum rating of 9.

Hands down, the best way to shake off HMHVV after you get infected. Rating 8 O-cells cost 20 000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) (2 500 x 8 ) and give you full immunity. Dirt cheap, when you consider the alternative.

The only downside is that it makes you immune to everything else out there. Oh well...

Well, we know the absurd infectiousness of ghouls is a writing "accident". Ghouls being dual-natured isn't really an accident, but maybe they accidentally forgot to give ghouls a means of defending themselves from astral attacks?

But extremely aggressive reproduction rates do balance out extreme vulnerability, in the way that vermin and diseases manage to avoid extinction...

Sorry, I should have expressed that better. What I mean to say is this:

Its clear that ghouls with out spellcaster support (they're all awakened) are always going to be dead meat.

therefore, the ghouls worth hunting, worth sending shadowrunners after, probably are a step above the kind of ghouls that are running pell-mell as some apprentice shaman bombards them with stunbolts from the astral.

Wards, spirits, etc.

Wouldn't a high power Mana Static also work?

Good question . .
Technically, a Background Count is a positive but aspekted away from you mana environment.
You would need a Mana-Ebb to kill something magical i think . .

They are people that EAT OTHER PEOPLE.

That tends to colour any support they'd get. Cannibalism is such a... Tricky thing.

Ah, minor details as some would say. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

Oh, I'm sure there are groups out there that will make it a major deal.

I mean, hell, there are folks out there that burn crosses just because there are short people in the world!

And not only do they eat other people, but if they go too long without eating, they lose control over their willpower and go on a killing rampage.

Well, the actual downside is that each time they do this, their rating drops by one. So if you have rating 8 O-cells and get hit four times, the first time it will negate it completely, the second it will drop it to power 1 (very doable) then a power 2 (Getting a little tight) and finally only to power 3 (Which is starting to get very difficult for non-trolls). The O-cells will regenerate, but only at a rate of something like 1 rating/week with a nanohive. So yeah, maybe grab a second injection of the stuff for when your main O-cells start to die off, and make sure both are full rating 9. That's a fair chunk of change, but it you make a living off hunting ghouls or something, it is likely to pay off (And it helps that it works on other things too for when you aren't ghoul hunting)

Not sure if mana static can kill anything other then spirits, if it can, then sure.

Ah! I totally forgot about dropping the rating. That makes it a lot more balanced.
Very good (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Edit: Actually... could someone point me to the right page for this rule? Can't seem to locate it...

Hmm, actually it is nantidotes that do that, I just figured the rule continued to hold true for O-cells as well. I think I put it as a house rule for my L4D game.

Well, to be fair, if a ghoul touches you four times, it's probably just torn you to shreds. Because that means you gave it time to take 4 Complex Actions for melee attacks! More than enough time to kill it with a proper cleanse-the-unholy gun.

Well, I'm thinking multiple ghoul encounters over the span of an extermination or something as opposed letting a ghoul gnaw on you for a minute or two to prove how tough you are.

True.. better carry some booster packs with nanites then I guess? Cost of doing business and all.

Hmm. Can you even put nanites into autoinjectors?

Technically, no . .
Your own close combat action hitting the ghoul also counts as touching . .
Hence: "WHO IN THEIR RIGHT MIND WOULD WILLINGLY ENTER CLOSE-COMBAT WITH A GHOUL?"

So long as they are typed for your body, and in an appropriate suspension, I see no reason why not. I mean you can do it to nanocutters right?

I was going to make a comment continuing the conversation about melee combat with A ghoul.

Where the heck are you guys finding A ghoul? If it were as easy as A ghoul, I wouldn't have such a beef with the infection rules as they stand.

We're really talking about three ghouls flailing at you at once while you attempt in vain to make one melee attack to fend them off.

I hate ghouls, I hate dealing with them, I hate their silly overpowered diseases, I hate that that disease costs you 100 karma when it is thrust upon you without your consent. I don't even deal with ghouls! I have a ghoul 'chop shop' as a contact make bodies disappear, but I don't even expect any cash from harvested 'ware.

I drive up, slow down just enough to kick the body out the door and keep going. I throw a little note on the body that they can read when it comes to a tumbling, twisted halt.

Dear Freaks,

Here, have some food. You guys like food, right?

Consider it a favor to pay for "protection" from you and your kind.

XOXO,
Socrates.

P.S. Stay the *#*# away from me Ugo!

My attitude on hunting ghouls:

you blow the building up with c4
once the explosions stop, you pour gasoline all over the demolition site, and you set it on fire.
You wait for the fire to go out, and then you blow the place up with c4 again.

Then you get your mage friend to summon a few spirits and bind them to kill any ghouls they see.

You *shouldn't* expect cash from harvested 'ware.

I'd also be more polite in my letter really.

What?

I gave them "hugs and kisses," I'm sure that is as polite as they've gotten in a long time. I'm like their best friend that never, ever, under any circumstances, wants to see them.

Right?