I haven't got a hardcopy of SR4.5 handy, but according to my pdf, you are wrong:

No. It's just like any other instance of 'shorthand stats' in SR4; when specific stats are given, they take precedence. Unwired (p48) makes this very clear.
This is right next to the Sample Peripheral Node table, which gives precisely such specific ratings.

This still makes no sense. According to the RAW/RAI, the rating of a device = the device rating. Otherwise, we'd never get Rating 6 Medkits.

No. Not even close.

In order to get a Rating 6 Medkit, we need Rating 6 software, plus a Rating 6 System (dedicated, we'll assume) and a Rating 6 response chip to run it on. So, not only am I close, I'm dead on target. The same thing applies to emotitoys.

Except there's that nifty chart that tells you what Device Ratings various devices have.

Pretty much the only things that have default Device Ratings of 6 are deltaware and commlinks.

Medkits, being commonly used devices, most likely fall into the "average" category of devices, and thus have a Device Rating of 3. Also, as a specialized device not intended to be used as a Matrix access point, it's a Peripheral Node, which means it doesn't get limited by the Response Rating.

Also, you missed this bit about peripheral devices: "If a particular device plays an important role in an adventure, the gamemaster should assign a full complement of Matrix attributes to it. If the item only plays a passing role, then a simple Device rating will suffice."

Further reinforcing that the Device Rating is just shorthand for the four Matrix Attributes.

A Medkit 6 might HAVE a System Rating of 6, but have all it's other ratings at 3 and be still considered to have a Device Rating of 3. But as a Peripheral Node, it can't run any other software except the Medicine profession autosoft built into it.

Or, that Medkit 6 may also very well be running it's Medical software with Optimization 3, which would allow it to run on a Device Rating 3. We don't know, as it's not detailed. For most of the devices that aren't broken down into their attributes, a lot of handwaving is used.



-karma

Why does a rating 6 medkit run rating 6 software? And what program is that?

Actually, the Medkit runs something non-standard, as it somehow can both add it's rating to your skill, or function by itself as if it has the medical skill at it's rating.

No other skill software does this.

So Medkits are kinda a special case anyhow.



-karma

To reinforce, just because something has a Rating, that does not mean it's a Device Rating.

Chemsuits have a rating too, but it has nothing to do with how well they would perform if linked somehow to the Matrix.

Medkits come in ratings 1 to 6. We don't actually know how much of that is due to the software and how much is due to any specialized hardware that is in the kit. It's generalized. For all we know that Medkit 6 could have a Medicine Profession Autosoft 3 plus some specialized software or hardware that lets it either grant six dice to the user's skill, or roll six dice in standalone mode.




-karma

Right, my point was that it doesn't work as an example of gear Rating = Device Rating. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Assuming the rating 6 medkit is running rating 6 software (and I don't see the connection. It just has a wider array and better class of drugs, devices, etc.), it still doesn't need a rating 6 system since it can have optimization. It also doesn't need a rating 6 response regardless of the system if it is a peripheral device.

That being said it would be nice is the medkit 6 price wasn't so cheap that it's practically mandatory.

I would have been happier if medkits were 1-3 as they are, but if you wanted 4-6 they were drone priced.

That's just it, though. You can't afford Optimization 3 at medkit prices. You can't afford a Response of 6, either, but that's part of why Device Ratings are so hinky. At any event, it's clear that the higher rating of the device, the better the computing power it has. So, rating of device = Device Rating.

Oh, and to answer your other question? I could hand you a jump kit from the back of an ambulance, and unless you have the skill to use it, it may as well be a box of band-aids in your hands. A medkit not only has better drugs and supplies at higher ratings, it has better software to help you use it.

There's no reason to assume that the medkit runs rating 6 of any program as a matrix device, though. In any case, companies can sell anything they want at the right market price. Maybe medkits have a proprietary hard-coded system that's easy to make in bulk. We have no idea, but we know they exist, what bonus they give, and what they cost. Those things are all facts, anything else is speculation and house rules.

We also know beyond doubt that Device Rating is not the same as the rating of a piece of equipment, such as a medkit. We further know that peripheral nodes can only run programs they're intended to use, so a fridge can't run Empathy software.

You could say the same thing about any device, at any rating. It all depends on the Device Rating, or rating of the device, as to what programs it can run.

Does it? Why?

Personally, I'd write one software package that did it all (because it's not like it needs to be fast processor wise, it's just showing people what to do, and I can store an incredible amount of high res video on a device rating 1 machine. Heck, I can store an incredible amount of high res video in my underwear.).

The rating of the device would be entirely dependent on the equipment inside the device. The more drugs, band-aid, defibrillator and similar toys, the better the dang thing is. At level 6 it may even have the machine that goes "bing".*

* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arCITMfxvEc&feature=fvw

No, you can't, Cain, because we *know* what Device Rating means, and we know what those devices can do. Device Rating explicitly refers to Matrix attributes, as a shorthand (just like Sensor Rating is a shorthand). When specific stats are available, they override that.

Neither of those has anything at all to do with the rating of various pieces of equipment. A camera (rating 1-6) costs 100*Rating Nuyen. This is in the most obvious possible conflict with the costs of a Node with the same rating. A security camera also has explicitly-listed peripheral node matrix stats, which don't change based on its rating. The rating of a camera also explicitly only affects the number of video enhancement mods that can be added; nothing else.

There are any number of examples just like this. This is so wholly obvious that I assume you're trolling me. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

But as I showed, there's nothing saying that everything with a Device rating is also a peripheral node. And peripheral nodes don't replace Device ratings, otherwise it would have said so in the rules.

Fact is, anything with a device rating needs an increase in processing power to do its job better. That is shown by the increase in Device Rating as the rating of the device increases. A camera? As it gets better (better resolution, fancier vision options, pattern-recognition ability, etc) it requires more computing power to do a better job. A rating 6 medkit has better software, since it tells you what to do. In short, as the device rating goes up, the amount of computing power it uses goes up, and therefore the higher its matrix attributes. I had a problem with this in game, so I had to introduce a rule about "dedicated processors", which could only run certain programs at full efficiency. This was before Unwired, though.

As for me trolling you: If I were trolling, I'd be making snide comments, not trying to engage you in honest debate. No insult or disrespect intended.

The core book defines Peripheral Device pretty clearly.

Is it a matrix-capable device? Okay, it has Matrix Attribute ratings. Sometimes they're broken out individually. Sometimes they're referred collectively as a Device Rating. Sometimes they have both - a fridge is "dumb" appliance with a Device Rating of 1, but it's individual Matrix Ratings vary - it's Signal Rating is 3, for example.

It is a device commonly used as an access point for a user to surf the Matrix, like a commlink? If no, then it's a Peripheral Device.

Matrix-capable and intended to be used as an access point: Standard Device.

Matrix-capable but NOT intended as an access point: Peripheral Device.

Medkits CAN access the Matrix. However, they're not built to be used like a Commlink. Therefore, they are Peripheral Devices. And as such they can, say, have a Device Rating of 1, but still have other ratings higher than that.



-karma

Provably false.

SR4A pg 222. Alphaware is device rating 4. Betaware is device rating 5. Deltaware is device rating 6. Cybereyes have a rating of 1-4 (pg 341) and yet their rating doesn't affect their device rating and their device rating doesn't affect their rating. It's that way for any cyberware that has a rating.

Higher rated software may be "Better software", but "better software" doesn't need to be higher rated. Simply adding more instructional videos makes software better and yet it doesn't change the rating. In the meantime, you still haven't shown:
1) that it needs better software
2) That it's not a peripheral node (which uses different rules)
3) That the medkit isn't simply designer fiat (since it certainly doesn't seem built in the manner you claim it's built AND by the rules).

By your interpretation, hackers should be running all their software off of rating 6 medkits. Granted, it's a fun concept, but from a game balance perspective, replacing a Transys Avalon upgraded to response 6 signal and response (16,000:nuyen: before firewall and system) with a 600:nuyen: medkit (which includes firewall and system) is simply broken.

I keep looking for that rule but I can't find it.

When did that ever stop Cain... or anyone else here at dumpshock? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

suoq:I think that entire page has been quoted by now. I wish people would just read it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

doesn't (to me anyway) mean
For example, I would expect the military has body-mounted tacnets. In my mind, a tacnet probably does "require the computing, processing, and networking capabilities of standard nodes" but it isn't a "commonly used as an access point for a user to surf the Matrix". My understanding is that a rating 4 tacnet needs 6 people with 8 sensors each. [Pg 125, Unwired] That's 48 sensor feeds MINIMUM coming in over the network and being processed and sent back out in realtime. That's not something used for surfing nor is is a peripheral device by the rule you're quoting.

Note that Tacnet software really does show some interesting processing power concepts.
Rating 1 = 3 people with 2 sensors each. = 6 sensors
Rating 2 = 4 people with 4 sensors each = 16 sensors
Rating 3 = 5 people with 6 sensors each = 30 sensors
Rating 4 = 6 people with 8 sensors each = 48 sensors
Rating 5, if it existed, would need to process 70 sensors and rating 6 would be processing 96.

The real trick here is the possible combinations of sensors needing to be matched up. Even just pairing on a rating 1 tacnet means 6 sensors are matching up, that's 15 pair combinations. A rating 4 tacnet is has 1128 possible pairings it needs to deal with in real time (minimum).

So we're not just dealing with minor increases in complexity, we're talking orders of complexity.

I have a hard time thinking the computational power required for a rating 6 medkit is close to the computational power required for even a rating 4 tacsoft.

Everything in SR has a "rating" - skill rating, attribute rating, loyalty rating, magic rating, armor rating, barrier rating, etc (e.g. do a search on "rating" in SR4a, Game Concepts section). Anytime there is any kind of number, it seems to be referred to as a rating.

SR4a, p69:


Gear rating never mentions anything at all about matrix stuff. So just because a piece of gear has a "rating" doesn't mean that equals the "Device Rating", where "Device Rating" will inform us of the System / Response / etc.

SR4a, p221


SR4a, p222


There IS some ambiguity, as the term "Device Rating" is mentioned in the Gear Ratings definitions sidebar-thing (I think this is just a mistake on the devs part):

SR4a, p311


It looks here like the flavor text is really referring to gear rating, and the author of this section didn’t realize the implication of using the term “Device Rating”. By this text, its saying that a rating 6 Medkit would also have Response, Signal, Firewall, and System of 6. Something that would costs 10’s of thousands of nuyen, but Rating 6 Medkit = 600 nuyen. This is pretty obviously not what is intended by the flavor text.

BUT…later on in the gear section, it does attempt to clarify about gear and Device Ratings:

SR4a, p313:


In the actual description and listing of the Medkit, it says nothing about Device Rating, only "rating", which therefore should be taken as the gear rating.

Arsenal is very careful throughout the book to use Device Rating correctly. Augmentation mentions it once…incorrectly, I think (Altskin, p113). Street Magic also uses Device Rating only once, but correctly (Possession and Vessels, p102).

So unless a piece of equipment explicitly lists a Device Rating (as Electronics do), it should follow the Device Rating table on p222. The long and the short seems to be, don’t use the term "Device Rating" unless you really mean the definition given on pages 221-222. Let’s pretend the Medkit mixup never happened. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)