Broken Rules., Or where RAW just fails. |
Broken Rules., Or where RAW just fails. |
Sep 9 2010, 02:39 AM
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#1
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Dumorimasoddaa Group: Members Posts: 2,687 Joined: 30-March 08 Member No.: 15,830 |
I know for one spirits can't by RAW leave the astral. What other parts of RAW are clearly not RAI or just don't even work and why? Enlighten me Dumpshock and alos maybe we could get some errata(Fat chance I know but it's worth a try). Lets not go for rule that are ambiguous but do actually work by RAW however you read it.
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Sep 9 2010, 02:42 AM
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#2
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 935 Joined: 2-September 10 Member No.: 19,000 |
This is pretty bone-headed, but I heard somewhere that "Grunts can't talk because they have no language skills". I think that's gibberish, and I don't consider it to be RAW, RAI, or a rule at all. It's too nonsensical and stupid. But it is something I've heard.
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Sep 9 2010, 02:51 AM
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#3
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 251 Joined: 17-March 10 From: Bug City Member No.: 18,315 |
I'm sure that the deadliness of mid 21st century car crashes will be noted.
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Sep 9 2010, 02:55 AM
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#4
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 210 Joined: 15-May 06 Member No.: 8,562 |
Stick N Shock.
Too broad in its description and better off left out of your game. It will save you headache as a GM. |
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Sep 9 2010, 02:59 AM
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#5
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Advocatus Diaboli Group: Members Posts: 13,994 Joined: 20-November 07 From: USA Member No.: 14,282 |
Psh, Darkeus, that's obviously not what the OP asked for. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)
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Sep 9 2010, 03:09 AM
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#6
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 935 Joined: 2-September 10 Member No.: 19,000 |
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Sep 9 2010, 03:15 AM
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#7
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Grand Master of Run-Fu Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,840 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 178 |
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Sep 9 2010, 03:19 AM
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#8
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 935 Joined: 2-September 10 Member No.: 19,000 |
Really? Can you cite examples. I have heard of this problem but not seen it demonstrated.
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Sep 9 2010, 03:58 AM
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#9
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 194 Joined: 12-August 10 Member No.: 18,926 |
Spirits are vulnerable to toxin. They can do combat drugs too.
Pixies get +1 reach if they take the Elongated Limbs metagenetic quality. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) |
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Sep 9 2010, 04:02 AM
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#10
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Grand Master of Run-Fu Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,840 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 178 |
QUOTE Really? Can you cite examples. I have heard of this problem but not seen it demonstrated. OK. I don't have a 4.5 rulebook handy, so I can't provide any page references. But basically, the problem is this: any vehicle that crashes rams itself, and does full damage to its passengers. So, let's put our family in a Mercury Comet, going along at 65 meters/turn, or a sedate 48 miles per hour. Suddenly, a squirrel jumps in the way, and the car crashes. The passengers now have to absorb a base 20P damage, instantly killing anything but a maxed-out troll. See the problem? |
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Sep 9 2010, 04:04 AM
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#11
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,542 Joined: 30-September 08 From: D/FW Megaplex Member No.: 16,387 |
Heck, pixies. They're smaller than gnomes but have more health and the same reach as humans and elves. This is a 1.47 foot tall creature that can miraculously strike people two to three times its total size away from itself.
Also - (cross)bows cannot Fire, as that action is reserved for firearms. I think I heard that 4A fixed that, but I don't have a copy to double check. I'll get to thinking on more. |
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Sep 9 2010, 04:10 AM
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#12
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Grand Master of Run-Fu Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,840 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 178 |
QUOTE Also - (cross)bows cannot Fire, as that action is reserved for firearms. I think I heard that 4A fixed that, but I don't have a copy to double check. Nope, AFAIK 4.5 didn't fix that. I think it's page 147 on the pdf, but my copy is acting up. |
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Sep 9 2010, 04:16 AM
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#13
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,542 Joined: 30-September 08 From: D/FW Megaplex Member No.: 16,387 |
A minor point, but AIs can have SINner, but they're not allowed to have Day Job or In Debt. So they're allowed to exist in a given society, but not able to contribute at all? In fact, they'd be a drain on society, as their Home Node requires a lot of upkeep (equivalent to a lifestyle), and on top of that, they can be addicted to things.
How does that work? They can take Addiction. What? Synthahol? Sex? What would they be addicted to, and how would they satisfy that addiction? The best answer I have is Addiction (BTL) in the form of studying the code for it since they don't have the nervous system to actually interpret it. |
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Sep 9 2010, 04:17 AM
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#14
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Advocatus Diaboli Group: Members Posts: 13,994 Joined: 20-November 07 From: USA Member No.: 14,282 |
I don't see the problem. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Use 'Throw Weapon' or 'Use Simple Object'.
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Sep 9 2010, 04:20 AM
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#15
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,542 Joined: 30-September 08 From: D/FW Megaplex Member No.: 16,387 |
If you "Throw Weapon" then you'd be using the arrow or bolt as an improvised weapon, not at the listed damage.
"Use Simple Action" isn't a bad one though. |
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Sep 9 2010, 04:33 AM
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#16
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Advocatus Diaboli Group: Members Posts: 13,994 Joined: 20-November 07 From: USA Member No.: 14,282 |
I dunno. Projectile Weapons *are* Throwing Weapons, and vice versa. Check the category listings. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) (There's a stupid rule right there. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) )
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Sep 9 2010, 04:39 AM
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#17
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,542 Joined: 30-September 08 From: D/FW Megaplex Member No.: 16,387 |
No. Projectile weapons and Throwing weapons get lumped together in gear listing and ranges for Combat Rules, but that's not the same as "they are the same." That's why there are two different skills for using them. The operative word that distinguishes this is "and," as in, "Projectiles and throwing weapons."
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Sep 9 2010, 05:25 AM
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#18
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Advocatus Diaboli Group: Members Posts: 13,994 Joined: 20-November 07 From: USA Member No.: 14,282 |
They're also together in the rules, as I said. Blades and Clubs are different skills, but they're still both Melee.
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Sep 9 2010, 05:30 AM
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#19
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Freelance Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 7,324 Joined: 30-September 04 From: Texas Member No.: 6,714 |
OK. I don't have a 4.5 rulebook handy, so I can't provide any page references. But basically, the problem is this: any vehicle that crashes rams itself, and does full damage to its passengers. So, let's put our family in a Mercury Comet, going along at 65 meters/turn, or a sedate 48 miles per hour. Suddenly, a squirrel jumps in the way, and the car crashes. The passengers now have to absorb a base 20P damage, instantly killing anything but a maxed-out troll. See the problem? According to the vehicle customization/expanded vehicle rules in Arsenal, if they've got seat belts on and allow all the vehicle's standard crash protection (airbags, etc) features to work (rather than going out of their way to disable them, like apparently some Shadowrunners, somewhere, might foolishly do)...they take no damage. Otherwise, they take the same damage as the vehicle, resisted by Body and 1/2 Impact (like you posted). To me the bigger issue is that it's resolved as a ram attack -- so that the more Body your vehicle has, the more damage you take (by quite a bit). Something's a little off when you're better off crashing at 100+ kmh on your motorcycle than in the back of a riot control vehicle. |
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Sep 9 2010, 05:31 AM
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#20
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Advocatus Diaboli Group: Members Posts: 13,994 Joined: 20-November 07 From: USA Member No.: 14,282 |
Indeed. The ramming rules in general are a big mess, but at least there are seatbelts. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Sep 9 2010, 05:36 AM
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#21
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 935 Joined: 2-September 10 Member No.: 19,000 |
A minor point, but AIs can have SINner, but they're not allowed to have Day Job or In Debt. So they're allowed to exist in a given society, but not able to contribute at all? In fact, they'd be a drain on society, as their Home Node requires a lot of upkeep (equivalent to a lifestyle), and on top of that, they can be addicted to things. How does that work? They can take Addiction. What? Synthahol? Sex? What would they be addicted to, and how would they satisfy that addiction? The best answer I have is Addiction (BTL) in the form of studying the code for it since they don't have the nervous system to actually interpret it. So AIs are essentially welfare cheats? |
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Sep 9 2010, 06:17 AM
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#22
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 213 Joined: 11-October 09 From: Des Moines, IA Member No.: 17,742 |
One rule that seems to be a bit contradictory is... most spells require LOS, but since Astral Perception technically isn't 'sight' but some sort of magical 'extra sense' Mages shouldn't be able to cast spells while using Astral Perception/Projection that require LOS. Of course the RAW describe doing just that, which is why there is a bit of contradiction. At least IMO, YMMV.
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Sep 9 2010, 06:35 AM
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#23
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,542 Joined: 30-September 08 From: D/FW Megaplex Member No.: 16,387 |
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Sep 9 2010, 07:07 AM
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#24
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Grand Master of Run-Fu Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,840 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 178 |
According to the vehicle customization/expanded vehicle rules in Arsenal, if they've got seat belts on and allow all the vehicle's standard crash protection (airbags, etc) features to work (rather than going out of their way to disable them, like apparently some Shadowrunners, somewhere, might foolishly do)...they take no damage. Otherwise, they take the same damage as the vehicle, resisted by Body and 1/2 Impact (like you posted). Now I'm going to have to be the one asking for a page reference. All I could find in the customization section was an advanced passenger protection system, that adds 1-6 dice to the test to soak damage. Did I miss it? |
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Sep 9 2010, 07:19 AM
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#25
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Prime Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,803 Joined: 3-February 08 From: Finland Member No.: 15,628 |
Now I'm going to have to be the one asking for a page reference. All I could find in the customization section was an advanced passenger protection system, that adds 1-6 dice to the test to soak damage. Did I miss it? Page 103 "SAFETY SYSTEMS AND CRASHING"(also seriuosly it took me 30s to find that and i havent even read it ever before.) |
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