I need something that is very very high in the air (high enough to be unseen) to blast something on the ground with a massive laser weapon for the climax of my campaign. It is not extreme enough for a Thor shot, but is extreme enough for this kind of thing. A big aircraft, able to carry a lot of people, something slow-moving but powerful. Like an AC-130. Not an LAV or a chopper.

The closest thing I can find is the Hawker-Siddley HS-950 Skytrain (although in my campaign it would actually be an Ares TransSky, same stats) which would have to be modified for military use. (All the military aircraft in Arsenal are essentially small, fast-moving attack craft which I don't want.) Is there anything closer either in the fiction or in an older rulebook?

C60 Titan from Fields of Fire or Rigger 3... You're looking for the 2060 version of a Spectre?

You meant the SR version, not the aircraft that would fill that *role* in SR, right? Because I'd expect LAVs to take over that function.

AFAIK, AC-130s don't fly 'very very high', either. The first thing that springs to mind is a zeppelin. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Very high, slow, large lift capacity, can have a superlaser. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

If it's just for a dramatic moment, and is intended to be unseen, just handwave it. Name it, give it fluff, but unless it's going to need stats, you don't need them, right?

Nice, Kliko! It's actually (in Rigger 3) the Lockheed C-260, p178. It has over 10x the load/cargo space of the TransSky, 2x the speed, 3x the fuel, +12 armor, … 7x the price. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Crib together an aging F-117 with a solid-state laser.

Just make sure to aim for the focusing lens and fill the target with a bunch of kernels encased in foil. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

You must be some kind of fake genius to come up with that, Doc. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Ares does have LEO laser sats capable of hitting ground targets. They used one to kill a great dragon. They hit with much less power than a Thor shot, but much more accuracy.

And the dragon was not killed, mind you.

I wil forever deny that retcon - it was a squadron of high altitude aircraft and I'm stickin' to it.

@Yera: No fakes here, it's all Real Genius. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I know they run operations during the night because their slow speed makes them very vulnerable to SAMs. I believe they cruise high but they need to come down in altitude when they open fire.

Yeah, that's what I was referring to, StealthSigma, 'operational' altitude. No doubt you're right about cruising.

I like how, in classic SR fashion, the 2060 version is just C-130 * 2 = C-260. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Please note, regarding above, that the *AC*-260 would be even more vastly expensive, with all those badass artillery cannons and so on.

The stats are totally unimportant, this is purely for my own gratification in being able to name it. I like little details like that.



Let me check this out. 2071 version, but yes.



Disagree (LAV cannot possibly equal the payload of an AC-130, they're too small) but that's a separate topic so (if that's even possible?) let's not get into it here. : )



Basically, for the first part, see what StealthSigma said. For the second part, I don't want to use a zeppelin because I think they're kind of lame (which, I know, is totally subjective). I don't imagine them having to descend to a very low altitude to fire a laser straight down. (Of course, I am making lots of assumptions, including that heavy duty military vehicle laser weaponry does not care about things like cloud cover and weather the way that MP laser weaponry does.)



I may use exactly this. I thought I read Tom Dowd (<3) saying on these forums that the Great Dragon actually got bullseyed by a laser on an aircraft, which is why this thread exists.



Ah yes. This is the very thing I'm talking about.

Also, I THINK I have Fields of Fire but not Rigger 3. Let me do some digging around.

Definitely in the realm of idle curiosity now, but...



Any different (in fluff) from the 'C-60 Titan' on p. 66 of Fiels of Fire?

Dowd wrote it in Night's Pawn, the first Shadowrun book I ever owned (and still do).

*shrug* By the fluff, I thought I read that that LAVs are definitely filling the 'heavy air support' role right now, which is the AC-130's big deal. They aren't replacing the 'massive cargo capacity' role of the C-130, but that's a completely different role. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I mentioned the zeppelin because of this: "A high altitude combat version was also deployed in Tsimshian, mounting laser weaponry and carrying aerial combat drones." But I understand if you wrongly think that combat zeppelins aren't the awesomest thing ever.

A T-Bird can seat 8 people. A transport plane can seat 20 people.

That means a T-Bird can seat 8 people worth of ordnance. And an AC-260 (or w/e) can seat 20 people worth of ordnance.

There is no such thing as enough guns.

I would say it's more the 'close' air support, not necessarily 'heavy'. A C-130 260 with a couple of Daisy Cutters is going to do more destruction than a pair of LAV's. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I'm *not* arguing that a C-260 isn't much bigger than a T-bird or two. I'm saying that the role of 'close/heavy' air support is now filled more by them. AFAIK. Which isn't that far. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Not that passenger space is a valid measure of anything. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

It was the page I had open : P

T-Birds are portrayed more as blockade-running fast-movers with guns. They're essentially the dropship from Aliens. They're not mean to be purpose-built gunships like the AC-130.

I think that AC-130s are arguably ALREADY obsolete for the role of close air support. But I think that even by 2070, the AC-260 will still be filling the HEAVY air support role.

Basically, what Doc said.

Okay, I think I've got my 'plug in name', so thanks guys. I'm going to go with 'Lockheed AC-260' in my internal notes about 'where did that laser come from'.

That was fast. Dumpshock is really great for things like this.

I consider it a valid method to determine ammo volume. I would much rather have 20 passengers' worth of 30mm ammo, rather than 8. You can also put large-bore cannon in the -260 that a LAV couldn't handle due to size/weight considerations.

I wouldn't say the '130s are obsolete, though there's fewer than 50 left in service (I believe they said around 33 combined 130-H and -U aircraft). They can pour sustained fire on a location, which makes them amazingly wonderful for knocking down hardnened defenses. Let the A-10's kill tanks while the -130 circles around turning a mountain into a crater.

It's possible. T-birds aren't for running blockades, though, unless you're a smuggler. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) In the military, they're 'gunships'; bigger and *much* tougher than helicopters, more able to loiter than airplanes. Don't forget that the t-birds in the book are all 'light' and/or 'scout' class, which implies there's a much bigger brother or two out there.

Doc, I meant that passenger count doesn't have much bearing on actual cargo space or load capacity in SR4. Delivery Van: 3, Cargo Helicopter: 4, APC: 14, Transport Plane: 20?

It does when I'm loading ammo. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

"How many passengers? Three? Great! Stash the '105s in berths eight and nine, and the 30 anywhere else it'll fit!"

Huh? Oh, it deleted my smiles off that post. It was by no means to be serious. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

They are and aren't. There's a couple of unique aspects about the AC-130s that no other craft can meet.

1. They are very advanced and can operate just fine in severe weather and at night.
2. They can stay on station for long periods of time (I believe an AC-130 currently holds the continuous flight time record).
3. They can bring more heavy ordinance on site than any other CAS aircraft.
4. Raining fire has a rather marked fear factor in it.
5. Their support can be brought to bear from a higher altitude than other CAS aircraft.

I'm sure there's other advantages....

Hah, okay. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I'm just saying: Family Van=7, Cargo Van=3. It's just how many seats are typically in it.

Not sure i would call the AC-130 purpose built. It is basically a C-130 with holes in the side to poke the guns out of.

And the C-130 is not even the biggest transport in the US military, that would be the C-5 galaxy. Thing is that there is plenty of C-130 to go on, so they are easy to replace.

The skytrains 30 body provides for 5 reinforced mounts or 10 normal mounts. And looking at the specs for a actual AC-130, that should be plenty of room.