CGL Speculation #9, Please review ToS before posting Options

[JM Hardy]

What he said. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) The link I gave was for when the HERO guys literally went out and fired a gun at the 5th Edition brick, um, Rulebook and it stopped bullets. They bring it to GenCon each year - ask to see it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) And frankly, I think HERO is a very cool system. I think the presentation makes it inaccessible for most people (although that's slightly better in 6th edition) which is its biggest flaw.

Now to avoid getting a moderator thwack for digressing too far - I'm (sadly) not making it to Origins this year. Does CGL have the uber-booth from GenCon? Or have they scaled things back due to the trouble? I'm not sure how those things go - do you pay in advance?

I don't know how GenCon payments go precisely, but I know we've been making them recently. According to the exhibitor hall map as of May 2010, Catalyst is in pretty much the same spot we were last year. I believe we own most of the booth materials we've used in the past, so they should be about the same.

Jason H.

[Kid Chameleon]

Heh, I just had a talk with one of the guys in charge of the booth. His last IM was "Same booth as before."

[Caadium]

And, as much as I enjoy GMing.....I would really like to be a player sometimes....I cannot be as cool as a GM as I can as a player!

One of my players actually took offense the other day when I said, "I'm making another character that I'll never get to play." However, after talking about it he realized that the last time I was a player in a Shadowrun game was the day that SR3 first arrived at our local game store. I might have convinced him that its time for someone else to give it a try.

New Hampshire is similar, though there was a recent case where four women were fired from a town government office for gossiping about their boss. They counter-sued and a $130,000 settlement was reached.

Though that's completely irrelevant to anything involving Catalyst freelancers!

As was stated above, unless there is a contract that spells out different clauses and protections for employees. Government office jobs are almost all universally part of a union which has these clauses and protections. Violation of the union contract can be a reason for a settlement even if under general law the state is "at-will" employment.

[Warlordtheft]

"Near future" is vague, though, so let's not get too far ahead of ourselves. The license extension was not finalized last I heard (no signatures on the dotted line yet) and we do not know how long it will be for.

Hence the vaguness. My speculation (this is a speculation thread after all) is that it will be for a year, with an option to extend it on an annualized basis. That way they don't have to renegotiate every few years. At least that is what my business sense tells me.

[otakusensei]

Hence the vaguness. My speculation (this is a speculation thread after all) is that it will be for a year, with an option to extend it on an annualized basis. That way they don't have to renegotiate every few years. At least that is what my business sense tells me.

I would guess it's until after the con season, or three years. Contracts aren't something you want to mess with often. Either they are still on the hook and Topps is getting what they want out of IMR before they collapse, or they fully trust Coleman and crew and the future is now.

[Rojo]

Isn't Friday court day???
Anybody in Seattle who can go?

I went to the 2 minute hearing last month and I am curious on what is going to happen at the pre-trial hearing.
I would love an update before someone purchases the court report(think they can?) & posts it.
This seem like much better info than much of what has been posted and talked about lately. I guess it is all Speculation thou, of course....

Rojo

[Cardul]

One of my players actually took offense the other day when I said, "I'm making another character that I'll never get to play." However, after talking about it he realized that the last time I was a player in a Shadowrun game was the day that SR3 first arrived at our local game store. I might have convinced him that its time for someone else to give it a try.

Well, I have been called a bit strange since, honestly, I love character generation. I have been known to just sit down and make character after character with no intention
of ever playing them. I tell my players it is so I can try and break the chargen system...but, that is not really why. Heck, honestly, I have been nothing but GMing so long,
I am not sure I can actually be a player anymore....that would require me focusing too much on one character!

[kzt]

They broke the main book up into 2 books this time around. Both are massive. I love hero it is probably my favorite system mechanically overall.

Me too. Hardly perfect, but very good.

[Caadium]

Well, I have been called a bit strange since, honestly, I love character generation. I have been known to just sit down and make character after character with no intention
of ever playing them. I tell my players it is so I can try and break the chargen system...but, that is not really why. Heck, honestly, I have been nothing but GMing so long,
I am not sure I can actually be a player anymore....that would require me focusing too much on one character!

I completely understand this. Sometimes though there is a concept that comes along that I don't want to use as an NPC. It just feels like something I'd rather put more effort into it.

I also think they give me hope that one day I won't have to do all the heavy lifting for there to be a game, if you know what I mean.

[tete]

Isn't Friday court day???
Anybody in Seattle who can go?

I went to the 2 minute hearing last month and I am curious on what is going to happen at the pre-trial hearing.
I would love an update before someone purchases the court report(think they can?) & posts it.
This seem like much better info than much of what has been posted and talked about lately. I guess it is all Speculation thou, of course....

Rojo

I'm tied up in the office (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif) stupid contract

[MindandPen]

Would you also realize that it is a liability to work with someone who is trying to undermine you at every turn? Someone who is trying to undermine other workers confidence in you?

Try working in the Government or any highly political, organization.

As someone else pointed out earlier, do you really think this kind of shit would be tolerated at your workplace?

I've worked places where lying was required. Specifically, in a classified environment, your answers to many "normal" questions are either a lie or no answer (which could be considered a lie).

-M&P

[Cain]

Shadowrun is an awesome setting!
<snip>

If you love Shadowrun like I love it, you're going to play it when you have the opportunity. You're going to GM it when you want to. You're going to buy SR media when you like it enough or "have to have it!". If you produce it, you're going to do whatever you can to see that it keeps getting produced. If you write it, you'll never stop or get distracted.

...because you love it.

Dude, let me say it again.

I *love* Shadowrun.

I've loved the game since it first came out. I can still remember buying the first book, at Ralph's Toys in Northgate Mall, a mom-and-pop operation that is sadly gone forever. I still *have* that first book, pages falling out and all, with one special addition: Jordan Wiseman's autograph. I still reference my original copy of Harlequin when I want refresher points on how to GM. Method and Tete have both gamed with me, and they'll say that despite my many faults as a player and as a GM, I truly, truly have a passion for Shadowrun.

So, what have I learned in the last twenty-one years? Among other things, it's that sometimes you have to give up what you love in order to make it better. I have a daughter-- someday, she will grow up, and I'll need to let go of her so she can become a better person on her own. Games can be that way as well. If giving up Shadowrun is the only way to make it better, then that's what love will lead us to do. Blindly buying up product because it's got "Shadowrun" stamped on it is not love, it's selfishness; and it won't help make for a better game.

[Aristotle]

That's weird, somehow. The players I know would start their own campaign with one of them as GM if they're hooked to the Shadowrun setting enough.

I'll accept that my situation may not be the norm... but it's how things work from my perspective. I've run for (basically) the same group for about 14 years. Most of them haven't played in any games other than those I've run in that time. They *love* Shadowrun, but we'll find a game that gets us our near-future grit elsewhere. The quality of the campaign is far more important than the system used to run it. They could set up another game, but their game time is limited and so far we've had excellent chemistry. I'm blessed with good players, and they've enjoyed (most) of my campaigns.

[Taharqa]

Try working in the Government or any highly political, organization.

I do.

But you and several other posters are choosing to misinterpret the meaning of my post. It was in response to a poster who was aghast that JH would have the nerve to kick AH out of the freelancer forums for his unprofessional behavior. It was the right call by Hardy, all the way.

[emouse]

Obviously I hope Catalyst pulls itself up by the ole' boot straps and gets it's business in proper order so that the people that have made this game great stay around to keep doing so, but I wasn't willing to take that chance and end up not having the material around. I just love the games, I could care less what imprints' name is on the cover. As a fan the whole situation is just kinda sad in a 'you just found out your dog might be dieing' kind of way.

At this point, the people behind Eclipse Phase, Posthuman Studios, are no longer with Catalyst. They've signed on with Sandstorm as their new publisher, which is a startup publisher made up of former CGL employees. So it looks like they're probably in good hands and Posthuman is moving forward with new EP material, including a second, revised printing of the rulebook.

[BlueMax]

I do.

But you and several other posters are choosing to misinterpret the meaning of my post. It was in response to a poster who was aghast that JH would have the nerve to kick AH out of the freelancer forums for his unprofessional behavior. It was the right call by Hardy, all the way.

<sarcasm tag>
Ohh yeah! Try working on a massively successful Open Source Game. That will learn you.
</sarcasm tag>

I think your beating your head against a wall that wont give, Taharqa. I don't see anyone moving out of their trenches in these threads.


BlueMax

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Does that mean I get lynched if I say I actually enjoyed the Hero system back in the day?

<hiding now>

You are not alone Catadmin... I love the 4th Edition of Hero System... Never had the money to buy 5th and 6th edition though...

Keep the Faith

[Fuchs]

I do.

But you and several other posters are choosing to misinterpret the meaning of my post. It was in response to a poster who was aghast that JH would have the nerve to kick AH out of the freelancer forums for his unprofessional behavior. It was the right call by Hardy, all the way.

JH doesn't have a problem working for LLC, whose unprofessional behaviour went far, far beyond voicing doubts about a schedule in a pointed way. At least where I come from, co-mingling money is not considered professional.

[Grinder]

And I was afraid that I wouldn't read the term "co-mingling" before post #500. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif)

[Fuchs]

And I was afraid that I wouldn't read the term "co-mingling" before post #500. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif)

People seem to forget the main issues when not regularily reminded what actually started this mess - the behaviour of the guys who run IMR. Namely not paying freelancers and co-mingling money.

Posting about how "Unprofessional" AH supposedly acted, and neglecting to mention how unprofessional the whole company was and likely still is run (see the mistakenly used draft from AH) is spin doctoring.

[Grinder]

Of course, even though I'm sure that everyone who reads the 9th incarnation of this thread already knows this.

[crizh]

It was in response to a poster who was aghast that JH would have the nerve to kick AH out of the freelancer forums for his unprofessional behavior.

Assuming you are talking about me, I am aghast that JH would cut off his nose to spite his face in that manner.

By all means give AH the bullet but wait until after all his work is in print and the cash is in your pocket.

[Fuchs]

Of course, even though I'm sure that everyone who reads the 9th incarnation of this thread already knows this.

I would disagree, judging from some posts it seems as if they blame everyone else but LLC or Bills for the situation.

[Congzilla]

I would disagree, judging from some posts it seems as if they blame everyone else but LLC or Bills for the situation.

From having read all these threads it seems fairly obvious the LLC and Bills are the only ones to blame. AH acted unprofessionally and got fired, I don't find anything confusing about that either. As for JH, why he decided to say after all this is his personal choice and I think questioning his moral compass over this seems a bit out of place to me. As he has stated he is a man of faith and I am sure forgiveness is high on the list of values that have been distilled in him.

We don't know what is going on behind closed doors and maybe LLC has shown enough effort in trying to fix this to warrant JH's trust in him. Heck maybe the guy just has a family to feed, not all of us can afford to walk off our job's because the immoral companies or bosses we work for. Tiger Eyes' situation isn't really comparable as she was asked to commit straight fraud which would have made her liable in this mess so please don't think I was referring to that.

[deek]

I don't think we have to see what went on behind closed doors though. I mean, the freelancers, worked for a company that had a long history of not paying them on time, right? At some point, they had to be writing new pieces, knowing the work they already turned in was not paid for, so they made a choice. Either they stop working and risk someone else picking up their work load or they work anyways and risk not getting paid for more work.

I don't know exactly what the Line Developer and other middle managers do, but in companies that I have worked for, my manager wasn't the one giving me a paycheck, so any complaints I had wouldn't be addressed by them. They would just continue to give me work and expect me to do it, or they would find someone else to work on it.

I guess what I'm saying is that I can't say it is only LLC and Bills to blame. The people working without getting paid allowed themselves to be walked on. They helped make a bad situation, even worse. Now, they may have had legitimate reasons to continue working without pay. I don't know how many of the freelancers are supporting families and the like, but I could see that if they weren't doing Shadowrun writing full-time, then they could afford to miss getting paid for months at a time and keep writing. And I could see those getting the majority of their income from Shadowrun freelancing, not wanting to withhold their work until they are paid, in fear that they would lose the opportunity to continue working. I think the ones that did leave had already made the decision that they could afford to walk away and do something else.

I mean, I know that I'd be willing to work for a poorly run company as long as I needed before finding another job. And once I found another job, while I might say how poorly run the company was and how I left due to my morals, I'd know that that wasn't the whole truth. It would factor into my decision to find something else, but I don't see myself ever leaving someplace for moral reason alone and hanging my family out to dry financially. That just doesn't make any sense to me.