Spell Selections, What spells are your 'Top Ten' and why? Options

[Whipstitch]

Well, when I started talking about shape sand, my point was more about the inability to change the properties/nature of what you're working with, even if you can change it's shape. For example, there's going to be definite limits to what you can do when shaping low grade pig iron or loose mud, even if done with magic. You're certainly not going to do anything wacky like convert sand to fiberglass either, which is why I'm unsure what it is that treehugger was worried about with the SR4 manipulation spells.

[Ravor]

Ok I see where you are coming from now and I agree totally.

Personally from his comments I think treehugger might get some milage from introducing a "Paradox System" ala White Wolf's Mage: The Awakening, that way Mages could pull off something big and flashy, but would pay dearly for it.

[Tarantula]

Yeah, but shape metal just says shape metal. Whether its sword grade steel, pig iron, or titanium.

Shape earth is the same... Mud, dirt, clay, granite, and so on.

[Buster]

[Shotgun]

When I was playing a mage I had a number of spells for Keeping Up & Not Getting Killed:
Combat Sense
Heal
Increased Reflexes

Combat:
Death Touch
Stunbolt
Powerball (this was more for fun)

Utility:
Ignite
Control Actions
Physical Barrier
Turn to Goo

I ended up with several others that were quite good: Magic Fingers, Ice Sheet, Mind Probe, Detox (only ever used to overcome the effects of recreational activities), Armour, Analyse Device, Clairvoyance.

Out of all of them I got the most use from Ignite, Heal, Physical Barrier, Control Actions and Turn to Goo. TtG was especially useful, for providing incentive, taking out opponents (we used to take out choppers by using TtG and Clairvoyance) and ended up being a favourite.

Physical Barrier was also excellent - temporary walkways, ramps for redirecting, cover and so on. Against biker gangs it was the perfect solution. Also good for containing blasts, at least temporarily.

Those and Spirit of Man got a real good workout.

[Shinobi Killfist]

[Shinobi Killfist]

[Shinobi Killfist]

My best spells have been said.

1. Levitate
2. phsycal mask
3. amkeover
4. fashion
5. heal
6. trid entertainment
7. sterilize
8. fix
9. detect life
10 analyze truth




On the other end the spells I consider bad.

1. Area of effect elemental spells. Cool idea, and even if it was the only way to get area of effect damage in the game it would still suck at its massive drain level.0
2. Ram/wreck/demolish Far to specific and no advantage other than drain(though a big drain difference) over a power bolt etc.
3. Antidote/cure disease. If they provided a number of extra successes = to net hits they would be decent spells but a number fo extra dice to roll per net hit on a TN 5 system is just suck.

[Ravor]

*shrugs* As long as you limit the spell so it only affects inament objects I don't see it as being broken, as FrankTrollman has already pointed out, Shape Plastic is already basically a city version of Shape Anything, still to each their own.

[MaxHunter]

And it wouldn't be more broken than, say: levitate or control thoughts

Oh, btw, I don't need ten spells, I would be happy with 8:

-heal
-trid phantasm
-levitate
-control thoughts
-detect life
-physical mask

to make a mage "complete" I would include a couple of damaging spells; one P and one M, like stunball and powerbolt, for example. They might not be the best spells, but they sure beat punching them in the face. -unless you made a mage samurai-

Cheers,

Max

[Jérémie]

1. Influence
2. Alter Memory
3. Mind Probe
4. Control Thoughts
5. Heal
6. Trid phantasm
7. Extended Detect Enemies
8. Improved Invisibility
9. Levitate
10. Some direct combat spell, like manaball

[Tyro]

I can't seem to find Deflection in the books. Could someone please point me to a page number?

[Dashifen]

Bottom of the second column on page 172 of Street Magic (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Tyro]

Bottom of the second column on page 172 of Street Magic (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Many thanks (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[BIG BAD BEESTE]

Hmmm, lets see what I've found top be the most useful spells in the past.

1> Physical Mask - Aside from disguising yourself, ever tried turning your opponents into you so their buddies gun them down instead?
2> Mind Probe - Knowledge is power and sometimes you want to "see" the truth from the target's point of view rather than hear what they thought they witnessed.
3> Combat Sense - Dodge good.
4> Magic Fingers - Oh the fun you can have with these: disarm bombs, pickpocket keycards and use them from inside a cell, get beer from the fridge without getting up...
5> Levitate - Avoid minefields or falling off high buildings.
6> Analyse Truth - OK, you could assense the target but the long-eyed stare gives it away. Also good for phonecalls.
7> Detect Trap/Explosives - Paranoid = survival.
8> Armour - If you do get hit, don't get hurt.
9> Manabolt - LOS ranged, direct targeting, unresisted by worn armour, and works a treat against astral active targets. Face it, banishing is downright dangerous!
10> Heal/Treat - Keeps you going for longer, unless you need a mechanic.

OK, there's plenty more out there, but those are my basics. I've left out the physical combat spells because a good sidearm is just as effective and dosen't cause drain, and seeing as smartlinks don't require cyberware these days...

As for unusual spells that i've utilised over the years, well, howabout the yakuza boss who used Turn to Tree on his more treasured opponents and failed minions. Had his miko turn them into Bonzai shrubs and quickened - plus he use to prune them regularly and tlk to them all the time. Captive audience don'tcha know.

My personal designed favourite was an elemental light sword spell. Harnessed into a Sustaining foci it was quite a low Drain to cast and required the users to weild it with melee weapons/blades skill. Caused all sorts of problems for those allergic/vulnerable to light/heat effects though. Street Jedi Vampire Slayers anyone?

[Fortune]

Physical Mask - Aside from disguising yourself, ever tried turning your opponents into you so their buddies gun them down instead?

Physical Mask requires the caster to actually touch the subject, which tends to limit the applications of this tactic.

[Tyro]

I see some people going for stunbolt/ball and some for manabolt/ball and a few going for powerbolt/ball. I think I know (mostly), but what are the pros and cons of each?

[Muspellsheimr]

http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?show...mp;#entry743338

Stunbolt & Powerbolt
I have always found the need for single-target precision far more often than area effect destruction. For this reason, the Bolt spells are always higher in priority for me than the Ball spells. With these two, Manabolt is largely redundant - vs. spirits, you receive the same result with Stunbolt with less Drain. In regards to everyone else, Powerbolt is higher Drain, but achieves the same result & can be used against non-living objects. With a reasonable spellcasting pool of 12 (5 Magic + 5 Spellcasting + 2 Focus), it is just as good, & often better at removing threats from drones than Indirect spells.

[Tyro]

http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?show...mp;#entry743338

Many thanks, my friend (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

[Ravor]

On the other hand, never forget the fact that you can pull some awesome tricks with indirect combat spells, hitting targets you can't see, possible access to the called shot rules, and the fact that they are better if your target has decent counterspelling.

[toturi]

I see some people going for stunbolt/ball and some for manabolt/ball and a few going for powerbolt/ball. I think I know (mostly), but what are the pros and cons of each?

Stunbolt and Stunball deal damage to the Stun (duh!) track which in turn is determined by Willpower. Against single targets, a silenced S&S(or any of the related cousins that does Stun damage) would suffice, especially if the shot was fired by the street sam. Stunball is good to take down more targets simultaneously. Stun spells are also useful against spirits.

Manabolt and Manaball deal Physical damage but only against live targets. They affect the same things as the Stun family but at a higher Drain and is also resisted by the same. What is the use of Mana spells then? The difference is the type of damage. A weakly mage isn't going to have a long Physical track while he is more likely to have a high Willpower, which translates to a longer Stun track.

Powerbolt and Powerball spells affect all physical targets (and targets within the AOE) at the expense of an even higher Drain. The damage is Physical. This is good against drones and such if you have a large Spellcasting dice pool so that you can overcome Object Resistance. I personally dislike Powerball because the AOE may sometimes work against you.

[Drogos]

Quick thought, one of the drawbacks of AOE spells is that you may have friends in the Area. But if the opposition doesn't have counterspelling, couldn't you just cast it slightly lower and counterspell the effect on your buddies? In other words, can you counterspell your own spell? Since you are providing counterspelling to your group, you would in essence protect them from teh harmful mana, while ensuring the enemy suffers the wrath of it. I'm not sure how I feel about it.

[Tyro]

*snip
A weakly mage isn't going to have a long Physical track while he is more likely to have a high Willpower, which translates to a longer Stun track.
*snip*

The inverse is also true. That Troll with 12 Body + dermal armor and bone lacing might have 4 or 5 willpower at most, barring extraordinary cases. Body is much easier to boost than Willpower, and thugs are much more common than mages. I think Stunbolt wins hands down, given the multicasting trick mentioned earlier.

[Edit:] If you do come up against a mage, just shoot him or lob a grenade. Armor and deflection spells only do so much, especially against something like a HE grenade, or even an incindiary or breathstealer.

Stunball can be (sort of) replicated with a Narcoject splash grenade, Stunbolt with Stick n' Shock ammo; the big things (so far as I can tell) that make spells better are armor ignorance (splash grenades can be defeated with chemical protection, gas with air seals, and electric damage gives half Impact + nonconductivity rating; protection vs. spells is a lot harder to get without a counterspelling mage or sheltering spirit) and their utility against spirits and other magical nasties.

[toturi]

The inverse is also true. That Troll with 12 Body + dermal armor and bone lacing might have 4 or 5 willpower at most, barring extraordinary cases. Body is much easier to boost than Willpower, and thugs are much more common than mages. I think Stunbolt wins hands down, given the multicasting trick mentioned earlier.

Not really. What a Stunbolt can do is similar to what can be achieved from a S&S burst fired from a Sakura Fubuki by any competent person. The AOE Stunball is much more difficult to duplicate through mundane methods. My point was that against certain targets, it might be better to have Manabolt than Stunbolt.

[Muspellsheimr]

Manabolt, being a Mana spell, is resisted with Willpower.
Powerbolt, being a Physical spell, is resisted with Body.