 Costs for a hospital grade breast pump, Single mothers on the run. |
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 Feb 13 2006, 07:46 AM
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#51
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 247 Joined: 28-November 04 Member No.: 6,852  |
The example you use for ammunition prices would only apply to something like a sporting rifle or sniper rifle. For pistol ammunition, these prices would be more applicable: .45 Ammunition 9mm Ammunition And for assault rifles: .223 Ammunition .308 Ammunition It always helps if you use an appropriate example. ;) And as for the wire clippers: Harbor Freight Another example from Harbor Freight This post has been edited by Shrapnel: Feb 13 2006, 07:55 AM |
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Feb 13 2006, 09:58 AM
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#52
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
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Feb 13 2006, 10:19 AM
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#53
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 388 Joined: 24-October 05 Member No.: 7,885 |
you got me on the ammo, but the wire strippers and cutters listed there are for things like stereo wire etc, the ones in shadowrun are listed as heavy duty ones you might use for B&E at least I would guess.
Again, there's going to some differences, but by and large the equivilent exchange for anything in SR to the real world will be roughly one for one. |
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Feb 13 2006, 10:31 AM
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#54
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 388 Joined: 24-October 05 Member No.: 7,885 |
No actually I just went to wal-mart.com and found thier ammo listings, I don't own a gun so I don' tknow much about the crap or where to even buy em other then local retail stores. if you notice all the ammo listed is roughly 35bucks, I have no clue how many rounds that entails you talk about selectively looking for something, same place, cutters more in line with what's meant for shadowrun.
Naw it does really, see those ones you're looking at would have no practical use in shadowrun in relation to what the book is referencing as a side note, the cost for wireclippers halves from sr3 to sr4 from 50 to 25 = ) When they talk about wire cutters in SR, I really don't think they are talking about cutting 1/16th thick cables, but more heavy duty things. Let alone looking for a wire stripping (those are included in kits that you purchase) no these cutters are probably meant to cut STEEL cables. |
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Feb 13 2006, 10:32 AM
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#55
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,901 Joined: 19-June 03 Member No.: 4,775 |
You are correct in that it is intended to be a more or less straight current USD:nuyen exchange. One SR3 book says pretty much exactly that (I think it's in one of the forewards). It is, from that, objectively verifiable that the writers did not know shit. Where people diverge here is on whether to change the really crazy shit or try and roll with it as canon. But, for the vast majority of equipment, the prices, along with the weights (and many other things, as written, are horrendously divorced from reality.
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Feb 13 2006, 12:03 PM
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#56
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Karma Police Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,358 Joined: 22-July 04 From: Gothenburg, SE Member No.: 6,505 |
How can you be talking about inflation when you're actually talking about two different currencies?
If you ask me I think the exchange rate between SR nuyen and present day dollar would be about 2:1. Claiming they're the same seems to be a very false statement. But I guess you shouldn't listen to me, as I'm doing two conversions of currency before being able to compair the costs—as well as running on the assumption that items have the same value in Sweden and US. |
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Feb 13 2006, 12:13 PM
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#57
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,901 Joined: 19-June 03 Member No.: 4,775 |
Take that up with Mulvihill and friends, then.
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Feb 13 2006, 12:47 PM
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#58
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Karma Police Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,358 Joined: 22-July 04 From: Gothenburg, SE Member No.: 6,505 |
It doesn't matter. If you're going with 1:1 like Liper, you propably have a very pessimistic idea of what things cost in real life. But if it works, that's just fine. Most people, in my experience, have a slightly optimistic idea of what things costs, and should therefor propably go for at least 150% of what they perceive to be the cost in present day dollar.
We really don't have anything to do with how anyone else arrives to the cost of a beach-towel or a gram of marijuana (or whatever) in their game. |
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Feb 13 2006, 01:32 PM
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#59
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,428 Joined: 9-June 02 Member No.: 2,860 |
Can we go back to talking about boobies and single moms? I liked that discussion more than price wars. :)
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Feb 13 2006, 02:12 PM
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#60
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,283 Joined: 17-May 05 Member No.: 7,398 |
What I want to know is what the intake plugs on the thing are for. *twitch*
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Feb 13 2006, 02:25 PM
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#61
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
Can I just drop in a quick word before the Price Wars are declared over? Thanks. Liper: You're looking at Weatherby belted magnum deforming hunting ammunition. This would be the equivalent of buying Hollow Point ammunition for your Sniper Rifle. The example prices given by the people who know what they're talking about represent what would be Standard ammunition for Light, Heavy and Machine Pistols, SMGs, ARs, Sporting Rifles, LMGs and MMGs. What you want to base the cost of ammunition on in your game is up to you, of course, but what's realistic and logical has been covered quite well by the other posters.
This isn't half as bad as the threads where people have seriously attempted to figure out the inflation rates of North American states through the 21st century based on USD and Nuyen prices of common goods... |
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Feb 14 2006, 04:29 AM
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#62
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 388 Joined: 24-October 05 Member No.: 7,885 |
like I said, I just went to wal-mart.com and looked up thier sporting goods, then rifles, then ammo, that's all that was listed heh. I selected one particular type since they were all roughly the same price. I'll have to look closer cause I figured the ammo section would have all thier ammo. I know for a fact they sell shotgun shells and pistol ammunition heh. But I digress, like the one guy said, it has been pretty much said somewhere, or at least implied in sr3 that it's meant to equate to roughly what things cost now 1:1.
(just to be more nit pickey) wouldn't it be optimisitic? since the people you list as paying more are optimistic but most people are happy about paying less rather then more =p |
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Feb 14 2006, 06:09 AM
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#63
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Target Group: Members Posts: 38 Joined: 17-September 05 Member No.: 7,754 |
Knowing what most RPG characters are like, we should be looking to Kill Bill Vol. 2 or Lone Wolf and Cub for inspiration.
How did this become a thread about inflation between now and 2060, anyway? |
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Feb 14 2006, 09:23 AM
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#64
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
Well, you can't suck milk out internally, I don't believe. Nipple stimulation is very important since it causes the pituitary gland to release the hormoens responsible for lactation. In fact, lactation can be induced in both women and men through persistant nipple stimulation, contrary to the popular belief that one must give birth in order to lactate. Thus, one would have to place cups over the nipples and attach them to the pump via sterile tubing. The advantage to this over a portable external pump is twofold. First is the ability to carry it with out without having t drag around external equipment (which is the justification for many of the more exotic cyberdevices). Second is to ability to express while fully clothed and in motion, thus allowing supermommies to be a perfect caregiver while working themselves toward a psychotic break without sacrificing any productivity. |
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Feb 14 2006, 01:29 PM
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#65
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Karma Police Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,358 Joined: 22-July 04 From: Gothenburg, SE Member No.: 6,505 |
No. I'm saying you're pessimistic because when you imagine the average price for something, you arrive at a higher cost than most do. Having an optimistic idea of prices is to underestimate costs, and this is what people mostly do (resulting in the monthly pay check running out in a week). The reason why price-optimists should have a higher $/:nuyen: exchange rate than 1:1 in their game, is that they don't beleive that an average dinner costs 20-25$, or that going to the movies costs 15$, like you do (prices in :nuyen: from the list on p304, SR4). The goal is to approximate the right costs in :nuyen: for things that are not listed. If you accomplish that by directly translating your estimation of regular prices in $, that's fine. Most of us will have to multiply our notion of the price in $ by somewere between 1 and 2, to get a price in :nuyen: that fits with the listed prices. |
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Feb 14 2006, 02:16 PM
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#66
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,428 Joined: 9-June 02 Member No.: 2,860 |
I think you could, if you put some sort of...eh...cyberstimulator?...immediately under the nipple, where all the milk ducts congregate. It'd need a suction feature, too. Then a drain line could head to some convenient internal storage cell (like, breast implants with some extra room?) That just sounds perverse, but I think it'd be functional. I bet the external pumps would be more popular, though. The implant sounds like a lot of trouble for nursing. |
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Feb 14 2006, 02:46 PM
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#67
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Incertum est quo loco te mors expectet; Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,546 Joined: 24-October 03 From: DeeCee, U.S. Member No.: 5,760 |
Keep in mind also, nipple stimulation could be artificially induced through the DNI interface. It really might be more space efficient to do away with the nipples altogether and simple have the device send constant, low level signals analagous to nipple stimulation. When nipples are being used for their secondary purpose, the partner could simply turn up the level of intensity (perhaps through a remote control?) and can then use his or her hands for other matters.
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Feb 14 2006, 03:09 PM
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#68
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,008 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
You could just remove the nipples entirely and replace them with taps.
~J |
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Feb 14 2006, 03:24 PM
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#69
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
Fixed. I don't think most people would be hapy about having their nipples amputated. They're both decrotive and functional and they have great enterainment value. You can replace the penis with a mechanical pump and DNI stimulation, too, but most people who have them aren't clammoring to cut theirs off. Of course, Shadowrunners aren't most people. They are a fringe element and fringe elements do wierd theings. Certainly, nipples present a problem for some 'ware. Dermal Sheathing, orthoskin and cybertorsos would certainly replace the nipples. With orthoskin, it migh tbe possible to grown an armored organic replacement nipple, but it wouldn't be nearly as sensetive as an original. Dermal sheathing and cybertorsos would have to be dealt with more creativly. Cybernipples, perhaps. With optional micropumps they would eleminate the need for a implanted breastpump, certainly. |
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Feb 14 2006, 04:35 PM
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#70
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Horror Group: Members Posts: 5,322 Joined: 15-June 05 From: BumFuck, New Jersey Member No.: 7,445 |
With all the recreational nipple-sucking going on, why don't we hear about this more often? |
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Feb 14 2006, 06:24 PM
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#71
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 518 Joined: 24-February 03 From: Tucson Member No.: 4,153 |
Frankly, from the practicality standpoint, it would probably be easier to just use a standard breast pump than go through the expense and essence cost of a cybernetic model.
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Feb 14 2006, 11:04 PM
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#72
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
Because most people who suck recreationally don't suck as hard, as long, or as often as a baby would. Inducing lactation mechanically requires dedication, persistance, and strong, percise suckling. First, just sucking isn't going to cut it. Inducing prolactin production through nipple stimulation requires a specific pattern of pressure and relase similar to the instinctive suckling reflex of a newborn. Other techniques will accomplish very little. Gentle sucking won't cut it, either. A healthy and hungry baby is like a little shop vac. Second, the stimulation must last for several minutes at a time, about as long as one would expect a healthy baby to eat a dinner time. Third, it must be done consistantly several times a day. Fourth, it takes time. A week is the minimum. More than a month is possible. Finally, the lack of breast preperation caused by hormones release during pregnancy may result in a reduced milk supply even if induction is successfull. Of course, "reduced" in this context is rather subjective. Prolactin release is a result of supply and demand, thus milk production can usually be increased with supplimental pumping. In the end, milk production varies significantly from woman to woman do to a variety of factors, both physical and hormonal. Hormone therapy can help bridge that gap, but it isn't perfect and there are side effects. I'd leave it up to individuals to decided with their physicians if they want to go that route and suggest careful monitering if they do. I would recomend men who wish to breastfeed consider it. We don't get enough estrogen or progesterone to stimulate breast growth during puberty. While we do have all the necessary structures, we lack them in sufficient quanities (incidently, this means that men can and do get breast cancer but our risk is significantly lower than an average woman's risk). They would be overworked, to say the least. But, there have been cases of men producing enough milk to sustain a child without any hormore therapy. In both men and women, milk production can vary significantly. Even the most breast-obsessed of nyphomanicas and satyrs would find it difficult to get enough recreational stimulation to induce significant lactation. There are, apparently, exceptions. Please note that spontaneous lactation in a male (or a female) without the stimulation of persistant suckling can be a sign to a pitutary gland tumor as well as other medical conditions both benign and deadly. One should see a doctor if spontaneous lactation occurs. Referances. http://www.breast-pumps.com/induced_lactat..._relactatio.htm http://www.surrogacy.com/medres/article/lac.html http://www.mamadearest.ca/en/info/newman/i...d-lactation.htm http://www.asklenore.info/breastfeeding/in..._protocols.html http://www.breastfeedingonline.com/5.html http://www.kellymom.com/bf/supply/adoptivebf.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male_lactation http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a1_093.html http://www.unassistedchildbirth.com/miscar...es/milkmen.html The mind over matter guy in the last link was probably an adept who was really wasteful with his power points. That or a tumor. |
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Feb 14 2006, 11:38 PM
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#73
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 176 Joined: 7-September 05 From: Austin, TX Member No.: 7,706 |
i'm not sure if anyone has asked this or not, i didn't read thru the whole thing but...
Why would a new mother want a cyber breast pump? Why would one even be made? It makes no sense. After 2 to 3 years, or more depending on the person, the mom is going to ween the baby off breast milk. Now you have a useless peice of equipment in your body, in order to have it removed would require surgery. Now i don't know about you, but the less i have to go under the knife the better. And lets not forget that when you are with the baby you won't need a pump. That's the baby's job... It would make more sense for a mother who is forced to run the shadows to simply give her child formula and let her milk glands "dry up". Unless she's a hardcore breast feeding advocate. "Excuse me, can you please stop shooting at us for a minute? I need to pump some milk, my breast are full and in lots of pain. Thank you..." |
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Feb 14 2006, 11:56 PM
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#74
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
Well, my thoughts would be an extention of the late 90's early 2000's supermom phenomonon - wageslaves who work ten hours a day seven days a week, cooks, clean, does the dishes, changes the diapers, takes th ekids to all the appointments, soccer games, and etcetera, and juggles it all by getting 20 different doctors to perscribe her kids ritalin and the popping the cocain-like stimulants herself five or ten at a time untill she makes her children into ghoul feed one day and blames it on an ork.
(And interesting sidenote, babies who are born addicted to cocain seem to have superior motor skills and learn to walk and talk faster than babies who aren't born addicted to stimulants, so crack may become a prenatal vitamin the the future.) It isn't quite as dystopian as babies dying from bad formula, but it is dystopian enough for the highranking professional mothers. The cyberbreast pump would allow these corporate leaders to give their babies the best posible food whould taking a single second away from their soulcrushing workdays. Because women who don't give their babies breastmilk are evil according to conventional 90's wisdom . :P DNI control means that you can start pumping as a free action and continue to pump with an action, thus making the firefight scenaro you laid out far simpler. There is no need to stop shooting at all. Formula can be left to people in the barrens who don't have clean water to mix the dry formula, thus compounding the problem significantly. I must include this link simply for the picture. |
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Feb 15 2006, 12:14 AM
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#75
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,008 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Two possibilities: 1) You intend to keep popping 'em out on strict schedule. 2) You're getting a good job as a wet nurse. ~J |
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