Considering the dystopian nature of shadowrun and the fact that most runners are working their way up from the barrens, it is sad that one important character concept is underrepresented in the Shadows, the single mother running to make a better life for her baby.

As a chracter concept it should be far more common than hot young lesbian elves yet it is rare to see compared to the sapphic stereotype.

This concept provides the full breadth of the dependant flaw by forcing the character to take into consideration such things as daycare (and nightcare) at the odd hours a shadowrunner has to work and, perhaps, maintaining a legitimate cover lifestyle to avoid the suspicions of nosey babysitters.

The single mother character concept is sure to provide great longterm roleplaying experiences. However, it does raise on every important childcare question. What would be the nuyen essence and capacity cost of a DNI cyberbreastpump?

I'm not up on modern cyberware costs, so I won't be able to suggest a price for that. However, I am willing to comment on the excellent character concept.

Great idea and well designed to work with the dependent flaw. I would also suggest that she be a certified nanny.

How do you kidnap the Johnson's children? Simply find the correct person for the job.

You want some insite on a booby pump? well they are found in drug stores in the baby ile care section. if not look it up on the net. then ad what ever inflation you would like.

Low end $150. High end, well over $1000.

The range is too extreme to be of much help and more importantly, it doesn't list essence costs for one installed internally.

A completely internal model would be impossible, but an implanted pump with in and out ports would be more convient than dragging a giant pump on runs.

Most single mothers have children by accident, and arent prepared for them. In a world of cybernetics, bioware, and magic, I would sure hope they make better rubbers...

Let's not forget trying to find out its conversion into nuyen. Which is almost impossible, since some items seem to be far more expensive than they should be, and some items seem to be far les expensive than they should be.

(Example: Survival Knife. I can get one for maybe $50. In game, it's 450 nuyen, which suggests a 1:9 ratio of USD to nuyen. Whereas a standard knife in the real world is $30 for one that'll get you through a lot before breaking up, one in SR costs 30 nuyen, which suggests a 1:1 ratio on cost. So, basically, you may want to just fudge the numbers and ask your GM if that's OK.)

I just have this nasty vision of a nursing mother with a cyber pump pulling a " Got milk" like in BaseketBall.

One that can suture wounds with nanites?

I think the point, Hyz, has been missed.


Nobody wants to play a single mother. Hell, some of us may know, or worse, BE, single mothers.

We play to escape reality. Not have it shot up our noses. Hence, the hawt sapphic elves.


An infant child would be far too much of a vulnerability for a Shadowrunner. And most Shadowrunners would, if nice, give it away for adoption, probably to some very rich people, or at least some very nice ones, or if not nice, abandon it, and if horrible, abandon it in the barrens with a round through it's head.

There are people who want to play characters that go insane, pluck out their own eyeballs, and get eaten by extrademinsional horrors. There are people who want to play cahracters that go out in a blaze of glory rather than succumb to their uncurable terminal illnesses. Surely, there are people who want to play single mothers.

And although most single mothers have children by accident, there are plenty that don't. Some want children to fill a void in their lives. Enough single women and lesbians want children to keep the sperm banks in business. While lesbians are overrepresented compared to single heterosexual women, I don't think that would be the case in reality. Some single mothers are widowed or divorced. Being single one moment doesn't mean one was single the moment before. You could even have widowed or divorced hawt lesbian elf single mothers.


And, of course, when you can barely afford food you can't aford condoms. Surely, there would be more single mothers in the barrens than anywhere else. Adoption wouldn't be an option for the SINless, they couldn't go to a reputable agency. Besides, most rich people would want a child with their own genes rather than a stray. Selling the baby as ghoul feed is a possibility, but some parents actually bond with their infants.

A baby is only a liability if an enemy decides to attack you through your friends, family, and contacts. At that point you are already screwed.




150 x rating up to rating 12 seems reasonable compared to current prices. A high rating would not confer any statistical benefits, but neither would a low rating (unless the GM enforces pain penalties for uncomfortably full breasts).

Essence and capacity for implanted versions is still up in the air. Implanted, it would just be an electric pump with two intake ports and at least one (probably more) output port. The ports would accept rubber tubing of a standard diameter. Cups attach to the in, bottles attach to the out, and DNI control combined with ahdesive cups would mean handsfree operation that would be appreciated by runners and wagemommies alike.

Don't patronize me, Liper. I was showing USD:nuyen ratios, which seem to be utterly random at times depending on the item and when the item first showed up in the Shadowrun universe.

I mean, sure, there aren't trauma patches or equivalent in today's world. Has that stopped anyone else from doing comparisons of real world items to SR items? Nope. So it won't stop me now.

Want a different example, then? How about cell phones? Today, a cell phone, on average, will cost you $60USD+$50/month for service (and that's if you get the all-inclusive service with some stupid amount of text messages and minutes, not to mention free nights and weekends). In SR? 500 nuyen. So that's somewhere around a 5:1 ratio on USD to nuyen. Included inside of lifestyle, of course, is your cell phone bill, if you choose to get one. So that means it's really $60USD:500 nuyen ratio, which is roundabout 8.5:1 ratio.

I'm so sorry I brought up the dreadful Survival Knife, which has caused GMs heart attacks due to the free trauma patch inside the handle. How unbalancing that knife is.

Shadowrun cellphones are 80's cellphones. 500 nuyen is cheap.

Can I get a page reference for either a direct claim that cell phone bills are accounted for in Lifestyle or a statement that cell phones cease to work if a character doesn't have a Lifestyle?

~J

No. However, neither do I deactivate their cellphone should they find themselves with no Lifestyle (Street Lifestyle). As such, their cellphone is a one-time cost—there is no subscription, hidden or otherwise. I'm asking if you have evidence that this is not the case.

Gas, likewise, I do not consider part of Lifestyle. This opinion is backed up by the Vehicle Maintenance rules—while higher Lifestyles do provide certain discounts, they do not account for all of Maintenance, and changing fuel grades alters one's Maintenance cost, not one's Lifestyle cost.

Matrix and Trid service are explicitly covered, though higher service levels need to be purchased independent of Lifestyle.

~J

Which returns to the question: if someone has Street Lifestyle, do you deactivate their cellphone?

~J

For the record, here's how I see Shadowrunner's cell phone bills being handled.

Step 1: Get in touch with at least a Level 1 Matrix Fixer contact.
Step 2: Pay Level 1 Matrix Fixer a nice fee (probably 2,000 if he's level 1, less if he knows you) to deck-phreak your service into the carrier of your choice.
Step 3: Don't worry about your cell phone service ever again unless the carrier you chose goes through an internal audit, your phone is captured by the Star or someone else, or someone has otherwise potentially compromised your service.
If step 3 happens:
Go back to Step 1.

And SL: Generalizations are, on the whole, a safe bet when they are, on the whole, applicable.

You are the exception to the rule. That dosen't give you liscence to tear a strip outta me, it gives you a liscence to say that you're the exception.

I can accept an exception, though frag knows why you want to play a runner handicapped with such a huge liability.

I can't accept some self-rightious ass deciding to tear a strip out of me.

Somehow I feel like the incredible growth of telecommunication networks by 2060 will have made the major fees that go along with cell phones significantly lessened, to the point that cell phone fees are in the area of $5-30, hence, not really worth counting.

As for the original topic, I don't see this as being especially invasive. .1 would be the most I'd charge for an implanted, DNI controlled breastpump. I personally would lower it to .05, since I"m not in the habit of penalizing characters for superior roleplaying. Monetary cost would probably be around two to three times the cost of the non-implanted pump, and I presume it would be made such that removal is easy (and significant components can even be removed by the user in question, for HIS pleasure, if you get what I mean.) I'm also pretty sure you can get a pump for less than $150 (althoug not necessarily hospital grade). I believe we got ours in the range of $70 new.

Self-righteous? I am as righteous as God's wrath.

you're pretty defensive, admit you're wrong and move on.

now if you want to compare things look at things like the following.

Music (page 286 of sr source book, 20 nuyen a disk/chip roughly what we pay now)
Ordinary Clothing is like 50 nueyn a set. (gee roughly what it costs at wal-mart)

save for shoes, but we usually figure socks/underwear/pants/shirt as a outfit, not the shoes since that's normally a higher expense

Now lets look at shadowrunner expenses, sound suprresser is listed as 750 nuyen in sr3 page 282.

now look at the following link http://www.impactguns.com/store/aac_pistol.html

I see quite a few at the 699.00 range. need I provide more evidence then random things? sure I can. we've covered the controversial silencers and the mundane music disks and clothing... Lets see... what else is there, ah yeah cars!

Let's see scooter for 2k, check look at a samsclub for the prices (yeah it's cheap, but for the bigger versions it's easy to see 1k-2k apiece)

let's see a expensive high class/profile bike like a harly-davidson scorpion... 12,700?

http://www.harley-davidson.com/PR/MOT/2006...elsection=specs

let's see 10k, and that's the first hog I found listed on the home page.

so I guess you can make a case for about 20% inflation.

IE 1.2 x current prices

but. this 1:5 or greater ratio? yeah right, again you've deluded yourself based off of one singular thing.

If you really want one I would say twice the essence and nuyen cost of an externally assessable auto injector.

That said I would not expect them to be implanted very often it doesn’t seem necessary or practical to me.

Non implant models would usually be a function of lifestyle. Or between 50 and 500nuyen

And I don’t think it’s a bad idea.

On the trauma patch issue.

Nothing that good is available for purchase as far as I know, I would have expected it to rate a mention in my first aid training.

And if I recall correctly the trauma patch would cost more to buy than the combat knife.

The best items for comparison of nuyen rates are items that have been available in the real world for a long time without becoming greatly more or less common. I would use lifestyle cost (assume low lifestyle is full time minimum wage, no tips), an average camera (non digital real world), basic clothing things like that

Liper got it right. This is what I get for typing before reading the last post

Edward

Ai carumba. Both of you, shut the #^*#&^ up about it.

Cell Phone Service is not a Big enough Deal to pester Shadowrunners over. Just have them pay a one-time rate to a Trix-fixer.

Nor do I. Calling somebody an idiot then telling them to give in is a surefire way to not get them to admit something.

Kagetenshi: I missed that part. Lifestyle doesn't cover tech (though in some instances it said it covered Matrix/Trideo), but covers everything else. While slightly nonsensical, it has its merits.

One final note: Inflation isn't quite the world I'm looking for. Just monetary conversion. Some items are far more expensive (as Kage pointed out), some are far cheaper. It all depends on the item.

Shadowrun doesn't account for brand name pricing. Better brands cost more. Cheaper brands cost less. Having a single nuyen price for all brands of an item saves the designers the trouble of creating a table of brand names, which is a shame.

I think that in the world of Shadowrun rather than buying a breast pump a mother could just buy some kind of super future formula.

IRL, infant formula makes babies die all over the world by depriving them or nutrition and antibodies and exposing them to unnecessary pathogens. By chosing formula over breast milk because they've been duped by marketing and then doing gnarsty things like diluting it for economy purposes, many mothers injure their babies tremendously when everything would have been fine if they've just used breast milk.

Therefore, I would argue that it would be more disutopian and keeping in the spirit of shadowrun if your single mother character kept buying formula and then wondering aloud why the baby kept getting skinnier and skinnier. "Hey, chummer, can you cast cure disease on my baby again? I think it's got Hepatitis B again..."

A cyber breast pump that ensures a supply of milk at all times sounds more like the territory of some fetishist than a practical piece of equipment. If it were available, as a GM I'd make it available from some Japanese cyber sex toy company. Otherwise I'd just say the mother would have to use malnourishing formula and I'd crack Heptatitis B magical cure jokes the whole time.

Also, an infant is obviously a weakness that a character has. But if a shadowrunner has a family, it's the same basic weakness. So I don't think the infant is an enormous weakness. I mean, I have to say that it's probably a bit lame to make *all* your characters have no family so that they can't have the family be held hostage.

Ah yes, the old "family is a weakness because it doesn't give you numerical bonuses or kewl powers" argument again.

It reminds me of why I stay at DS.

On the cell phone thing, personally, I usually just go with the basic idea that's been put forth about how since most 'runners are using illegally functioning cellphones, they just pay for the "account" to be set up when they buy it. Illegal phone service, sure, but it works, and everything else they do is illegal too. My players' characters tend to be the "I've used this phone for a couple of jobs, time to throw it away and get a new one", so it would be far more trouble than it's worth to me to have them go through figuring out where their phone bill factors in.

I like that idea, Wounded Ronin. Of course, it still comes back to the idea that the shadowrunner isn't just your average Joe, and as such, may be both responsible AND intelligent. But I would agree with the basic idea, formula is more likely to be sold (for that corporate lady on the go!) And then there's the question of what all is put into said formula to help cut costs... Yummm...

As a RL price check from cell phone happy Hong Kong, monthly cell phone service runs from around 8-25 USD a month, depending on how many bells and whistles you want. You can even get by for even less using pre-paid minnute cards, if you don't talk on the phone that much.

Heh, just by human milk at the grocery store, right next to the tastee-ghoul section (cloned human meat at prices you love!).

It's called HuFu.

Personally, I prefer fresh spit-roasted longpig.

I believe lifestyle does include cell phone.

Earlier in this thread somebody quoted SR3 main as lifestyle including utilities, phones are utilities, the level of lifestyle determines the quality of utilities you get. Looking to the real world in Australia where I live almost everybody has a mobile phone, even people that are on the dole usually managed to pick up a second hand phone for AU$50 and risk running out of prepaid credit if they don’t ration usage, this is the level of phone utility I would give to a character with a low lifestyle. Mod lifestyle includes a post payed contract you don’t have to worry about the expense of, above that you have some form of mobile matrix access. Squatter can include mobile access but with very limited calls (prepaid accounts are cheep to set up and your paying for the phone so that doesn’t come from lifestyle) as gm I would probably have them runout of credit every few runs, phone access for a street lifestyle is staying near a payphone and giving your fixer that number.

On the subject of throwing out phones this has no impact on my system. You can buy sim cards today that come with as much credit as they cost, a phone that costs as much as one listed in BBB should come with a nice amount of prepaid credit so even cheep shit lifestyles don’t have a problem.

Edward

Entirely certain. This one is more expensive than the one I was looking at, but your own site doesn't support you.

As for ammo, it is nowhere near the same.

Have a nice day, please stop wasting our time.

~J

Yeah, if you're picking the most obscure and unusual ammunition you can. Let's go all the way: .50BMG runs about $2/round. Success! Canon doesn't inflate prices out of mindless ignorance after all!

Only, no. A case of 9x19mm from Wolf will run you a fuckload less than $2/round. $119 for 1,000 rounds: 1681% inflation. Wire cutters at Sears will cost around $10. The prices are inflated, and now you're just grabbing at straws.