Adept Centring vs penalties, Under 3rd Ed Options

[DrJest]

Okay, can someone help me out on this one?

As far as I can tell, this requires three things: Initiating (unchanged), a centering skill (unchanged) and the skill of Centering (new). Not being in possession of MitS, I'm a little unclear on how this works now.

Back with Mr. Adept and his guns. Say he's in a running gunfight in the Puyallup Barrens. Assuming +2 for poor light, +1 for attacker waking, and say +1 for target movement. He's a grade 1 initiate with Centering, Pistols at 6, Improved Combat Ability(Pistols) at 4, and a centering skill of 4 (being all he has been able to afford it at so far).

Firstly, is his Pistols skill suitable for Centering? From comments here and there, combat skills appear to be valid for centering tests.

If so, which skill does he use - his Pistols, or the Centering? Or is the Centering skill a limiter on how much Pistols he can use?

If it IS Pistols, do his levels of Improved Combat Ability count?

Thanks all,

Confused in Seattle :wobble:

[Critias]

Not as a Grade 1 Initiate. The first time an Adept takes Centering as a Metamagic, he learns to apply it to Athletics and Stealth (whether he wants to or not, those are the most basic and essential of physical skills, appropriate for a follower of the Somatic Path).

The next time he Initiates and chooses Centering, he can choose to apply it to something else -- Melee Combat, Ranged Combat, Vehicle Skills, all sorts of stuff. So for the sake of your example, we'll assume he's actually a Grade 2 guy, who can Center for Ranged Combat (like you want).

Now, normally, Pistols isn't appropriate for a Centering-linked skill, and specifically says so in the MitS book. It would let a mage (for instance) who's Centering against Drain...blaze away at someone as part and parcel of his spellcasting action, and in fact to make him better at Sorcery. Isn't that a little nuts?

Centering skills are normally the sort of thing that's largely otherwise useless (with the notable exception of musician-types, who sing or dance or play a rockin' electric guitar, to focus their magical energy) -- simply for game balance reasons, and it says so outright, to prevent someone from getting a "two for one" skill.

So, anyways -- no, he doesn't use his Pistols skill (even if your GM is insane, and lets you use that as your Centering-linked ability), he uses his Centering skill (which cannot be higher than your Pistols, or whatever other ability you choose). You roll Centering, with no other help but an eventual Centering Focus (no pool dice, no Adept improved ability dice, no nothin').

[Ol' Scratch]

Seriously, just go buy the book and read it.

If you don't understand how it works because you're confused by the wording in the book, that's one thing. But if you don't understand how it works because you don't have the book, that's something else entirely.

This is like the third time today you've asked for clarification out of the book even though you don't own it. If you want to know how the rules work from it, buy it and read it for yourself. This isn't the "give the rules away for free" forum.

[DrJest]

Are you paying, Doc?

I have an extensive collection of SR books, but except for CC they're all 2nd Ed. I've been trying to get up to date with the new rules because the forums primarily operate on 3rd Ed, but I cannot afford to replace all my books. I am not a rich man. I have a family to support and a house to run, and frankly that takes the vast majority of my income. Such books as I have were mostly bought before I became a family man.

If you don't want to help, don't. I'm not going to come round to your house and shout at you about it. But don't post unhelpful comments like that in lieu of assistance.

[Ol' Scratch]

[DrJest]

Any forum games will most likely be run under 3rd ed, yes? These are also the most probable places I will get to play SR any more, since my previous group broke up. So yes, I will - with any luck - have to play under 3rd Ed rules.

It is NOT my fault that a 3rd edition came out. By your lights, I should now just stop playing SR after many years because I can't afford to buy all the books again. Sorry if that option doesn't recommend itself, but I like Shadowrun. I wouldn't be here if I didn't.

Again, I say: if you don't want to help out, don't. It's not compulsory; I am grateful to everyone who does help out as I try to catch up, but I'm not saying "thou shalt". I'm glad you can afford to keep replacing books. I can't. I didn't replace my World of Darkness systems when they went to 3rd Ed, let alone - God help us - the completely new stuff. I didn't replace my D&D when it went to 3.5, and for that I had endless trouble with an online game i tried to join.

If you don't want to help, well, that's your choice. But don't post snide little comments like that instead, it really doesn't reflect well on you.

[Ol' Scratch]

[DrJest]

[Ol' Scratch]

[DrJest]

[Thistledown]

Basically, you're rolling your centering skill, which can not be higher than your linked skill. And yes, you'd need have to take the centering metamagic twice to have it with something other than athletics and stealth. It can be used to center against penalties, or to center for success. Actually, it can be used to center against drain, but phys-ad powers with drain are pretty rare.

[Toptomcat]

I smell smoke...
:noflame:

[Fortune]

Actually DrJest, more than just 'a small percentage of rules' changed with the release of SR3. The rather small outlay of money for the BBB (Core Rulebook) and 1 or 2 support books relevant to the type(s) of characters you like or intend to play is not too much to ask, and is actually a very good investment.

Your argument that you have bought FASA products in the past doesn't really wash. FanPro and WizKids see nothing from any sales of such books. It is these two companies that are now responsible for the life or death of the product line.

If you really want to play the game as it currently stands, you should be able to find a way to finance it. You say you have no money because you have a family to support? You say you have a lot of SR1 and SR2 books? You could always sell a few on Ebay and grab the books you need with the profits. How about a garage sale to get the $40 or so it would take to pick up the books you really need? Pleading poor just doesn't cut it. There are a lot of us who struggle to make ends meet, and we can still support the game.

[GaiasWrath8]

OK, so back on subject, let me see if I got this right.

Adept 2nd grade, has Centering at 3, Pistoles at 4, and Gaelik at 4.

I use the very cool Gaelik to center my pistole shots. This would let me roll Gaelik or centering? Then I get a free sucsess for every two sucsesses (Round up I hope) when I shoot my pistol. Oh ya, free action to use centering?

thanks. ;)

P.S. I have bought ALL the major books for SR3 since I tried to move over from 2nd edition. I just needed a little clerification. :) Thanks for the help in advance.

[Ol' Scratch]

Your Linked Skill only serves to limit your Centering Skill. You always roll Centering when using that metamagic technique. Every two successes you make can either lower a +1 target modifier or give you an extra success (assuming you made at least one success to begin with). And yes, it takes up your Free Action to perform your Centering talent (speaking, meditating, dancing, whatever). :)

[GaiasWrath8]

Thanks a lot. that cleared it up for me. I have a guy who is going up grade level soon and wanted to make sure I had a good handel on it now.

[Fortune]

And it rounds down, IIRC. :)

[Ol' Scratch]

Oh yeah, missed that. Everything in the game rounds down unless specifically mentioned otherwise (though sometimes it seems the other way depending upon how you're looking at the situation; Essence loss to Magic, for instance).

[BishopMcQ]

Is it possible to have different linked skills for centering? IE, my stealth and athletics are tied to meditationa and have my sorcery tied to singing. I can't imagine anyone singing aloud while they are stealthing to make it easier for them to sneak past the guards...

[Ol' Scratch]

Unfortunately, no, the rules don't take that into account. I've allowed it in the past (while requiring you to list which Linked Skill you have associated with each improvement to Centering, and only for adepts), but that's a house rule.

[GaiasWrath8]

Maybe you could just sing in your head...

[Dr. Black]

Not to Beat a Dead Horse - (sounds like the title of a run)

Drjest - please dont take offense. It is very difficult to explain the rules if the person you are explaining to has no basis for explanation. There have been so many rules changes from SR2 to SR3, sometimes I still confuse them.

If you cant afford to purchase the new books, I feel for you. Try borrowing them if you can. Try ebay. Sell some SR1 and SR2 books on ebay as was mentioned before.

Maybe start a "Looking to Buy" thread and see if someone wants to part with their used and slightly tattered copies that dont include the errata, in favor of something shiny and new. (ooh me likes shiny)

Check the used bookstores and games stores in your town, I have seen used copies in some places for 25% of new retail.

Keep in mind that there are many rules changes from 2 to 3. You would be doing yourself and injustice to try and play in a SR3 game without a few core rulebooks.

Good Luck.

PS. I have the SR3 book, used, a little tattered. I would be willing to part with it. Come on guys/gals, cough up some used books to help the guy out.

[toturi]

[Fortune]

I thought I recalled a bit of canon text (possibly fluff) indicating that a character could have multiple Centering-related skills, but could only ever benefit from one at any one time.

[toturi]