Okay, can someone help me out on this one?

As far as I can tell, this requires three things: Initiating (unchanged), a centering skill (unchanged) and the skill of Centering (new). Not being in possession of MitS, I'm a little unclear on how this works now.

Back with Mr. Adept and his guns. Say he's in a running gunfight in the Puyallup Barrens. Assuming +2 for poor light, +1 for attacker waking, and say +1 for target movement. He's a grade 1 initiate with Centering, Pistols at 6, Improved Combat Ability(Pistols) at 4, and a centering skill of 4 (being all he has been able to afford it at so far).

Firstly, is his Pistols skill suitable for Centering? From comments here and there, combat skills appear to be valid for centering tests.

If so, which skill does he use - his Pistols, or the Centering? Or is the Centering skill a limiter on how much Pistols he can use?

If it IS Pistols, do his levels of Improved Combat Ability count?

Thanks all,

Confused in Seattle

Not as a Grade 1 Initiate. The first time an Adept takes Centering as a Metamagic, he learns to apply it to Athletics and Stealth (whether he wants to or not, those are the most basic and essential of physical skills, appropriate for a follower of the Somatic Path).

The next time he Initiates and chooses Centering, he can choose to apply it to something else -- Melee Combat, Ranged Combat, Vehicle Skills, all sorts of stuff. So for the sake of your example, we'll assume he's actually a Grade 2 guy, who can Center for Ranged Combat (like you want).

Now, normally, Pistols isn't appropriate for a Centering-linked skill, and specifically says so in the MitS book. It would let a mage (for instance) who's Centering against Drain...blaze away at someone as part and parcel of his spellcasting action, and in fact to make him better at Sorcery. Isn't that a little nuts?

Centering skills are normally the sort of thing that's largely otherwise useless (with the notable exception of musician-types, who sing or dance or play a rockin' electric guitar, to focus their magical energy) -- simply for game balance reasons, and it says so outright, to prevent someone from getting a "two for one" skill.

So, anyways -- no, he doesn't use his Pistols skill (even if your GM is insane, and lets you use that as your Centering-linked ability), he uses his Centering skill (which cannot be higher than your Pistols, or whatever other ability you choose). You roll Centering, with no other help but an eventual Centering Focus (no pool dice, no Adept improved ability dice, no nothin').

Seriously, just go buy the book and read it.

If you don't understand how it works because you're confused by the wording in the book, that's one thing. But if you don't understand how it works because you don't have the book, that's something else entirely.

This is like the third time today you've asked for clarification out of the book even though you don't own it. If you want to know how the rules work from it, buy it and read it for yourself. This isn't the "give the rules away for free" forum.

Are you paying, Doc?

I have an extensive collection of SR books, but except for CC they're all 2nd Ed. I've been trying to get up to date with the new rules because the forums primarily operate on 3rd Ed, but I cannot afford to replace all my books. I am not a rich man. I have a family to support and a house to run, and frankly that takes the vast majority of my income. Such books as I have were mostly bought before I became a family man.

If you don't want to help, don't. I'm not going to come round to your house and shout at you about it. But don't post unhelpful comments like that in lieu of assistance.

Any forum games will most likely be run under 3rd ed, yes? These are also the most probable places I will get to play SR any more, since my previous group broke up. So yes, I will - with any luck - have to play under 3rd Ed rules.

It is NOT my fault that a 3rd edition came out. By your lights, I should now just stop playing SR after many years because I can't afford to buy all the books again. Sorry if that option doesn't recommend itself, but I like Shadowrun. I wouldn't be here if I didn't.

Again, I say: if you don't want to help out, don't. It's not compulsory; I am grateful to everyone who does help out as I try to catch up, but I'm not saying "thou shalt". I'm glad you can afford to keep replacing books. I can't. I didn't replace my World of Darkness systems when they went to 3rd Ed, let alone - God help us - the completely new stuff. I didn't replace my D&D when it went to 3.5, and for that I had endless trouble with an online game i tried to join.

If you don't want to help, well, that's your choice. But don't post snide little comments like that instead, it really doesn't reflect well on you.

Basically, you're rolling your centering skill, which can not be higher than your linked skill. And yes, you'd need have to take the centering metamagic twice to have it with something other than athletics and stealth. It can be used to center against penalties, or to center for success. Actually, it can be used to center against drain, but phys-ad powers with drain are pretty rare.

I smell smoke...

Actually DrJest, more than just 'a small percentage of rules' changed with the release of SR3. The rather small outlay of money for the BBB (Core Rulebook) and 1 or 2 support books relevant to the type(s) of characters you like or intend to play is not too much to ask, and is actually a very good investment.

Your argument that you have bought FASA products in the past doesn't really wash. FanPro and WizKids see nothing from any sales of such books. It is these two companies that are now responsible for the life or death of the product line.

If you really want to play the game as it currently stands, you should be able to find a way to finance it. You say you have no money because you have a family to support? You say you have a lot of SR1 and SR2 books? You could always sell a few on Ebay and grab the books you need with the profits. How about a garage sale to get the $40 or so it would take to pick up the books you really need? Pleading poor just doesn't cut it. There are a lot of us who struggle to make ends meet, and we can still support the game.

OK, so back on subject, let me see if I got this right.

Adept 2nd grade, has Centering at 3, Pistoles at 4, and Gaelik at 4.

I use the very cool Gaelik to center my pistole shots. This would let me roll Gaelik or centering? Then I get a free sucsess for every two sucsesses (Round up I hope) when I shoot my pistol. Oh ya, free action to use centering?

thanks.

P.S. I have bought ALL the major books for SR3 since I tried to move over from 2nd edition. I just needed a little clerification. Thanks for the help in advance.

Your Linked Skill only serves to limit your Centering Skill. You always roll Centering when using that metamagic technique. Every two successes you make can either lower a +1 target modifier or give you an extra success (assuming you made at least one success to begin with). And yes, it takes up your Free Action to perform your Centering talent (speaking, meditating, dancing, whatever).

Thanks a lot. that cleared it up for me. I have a guy who is going up grade level soon and wanted to make sure I had a good handel on it now.

And it rounds down, IIRC.

Oh yeah, missed that. Everything in the game rounds down unless specifically mentioned otherwise (though sometimes it seems the other way depending upon how you're looking at the situation; Essence loss to Magic, for instance).

Is it possible to have different linked skills for centering? IE, my stealth and athletics are tied to meditationa and have my sorcery tied to singing. I can't imagine anyone singing aloud while they are stealthing to make it easier for them to sneak past the guards...

Unfortunately, no, the rules don't take that into account. I've allowed it in the past (while requiring you to list which Linked Skill you have associated with each improvement to Centering, and only for adepts), but that's a house rule.

Maybe you could just sing in your head...

Not to Beat a Dead Horse - (sounds like the title of a run)

Drjest - please dont take offense. It is very difficult to explain the rules if the person you are explaining to has no basis for explanation. There have been so many rules changes from SR2 to SR3, sometimes I still confuse them.

If you cant afford to purchase the new books, I feel for you. Try borrowing them if you can. Try ebay. Sell some SR1 and SR2 books on ebay as was mentioned before.

Maybe start a "Looking to Buy" thread and see if someone wants to part with their used and slightly tattered copies that dont include the errata, in favor of something shiny and new. (ooh me likes shiny)

Check the used bookstores and games stores in your town, I have seen used copies in some places for 25% of new retail.

Keep in mind that there are many rules changes from 2 to 3. You would be doing yourself and injustice to try and play in a SR3 game without a few core rulebooks.

Good Luck.

PS. I have the SR3 book, used, a little tattered. I would be willing to part with it. Come on guys/gals, cough up some used books to help the guy out.

I thought I recalled a bit of canon text (possibly fluff) indicating that a character could have multiple Centering-related skills, but could only ever benefit from one at any one time.

No, that's not it. That refers to using Centering to either reduce TN or assist with Drain or whatever. The text I seem to recall referenced a Shaman with both Singing and Dancing, but having to choose between the two each time he wanted to Center. Maybe I just dreamed it ... but I don't see the harm in this type of thing anyway.

Also note that this probably means you can't call a shot to some guys noggin, and then try to center the penalties away (at least in the same phase). You can probably do thing while aiming though.

A Simple Action can be exchanged for an extra Free Action. There is also the new Adept Power that grants additional Free Actions.

I used to have a pretty good amount of sympathy for people who didn't have the books, but were curious about what they offered. I still do, insofar as that I'm willing to pretty much verbatim name off adept powers from SOTA:2064, Reputation rules from MRJLBB, etc...

What I do not have sympathy for, or patience, is people who "can't afford" to buy SR3 books, books that have been out for years, but want to know all of the SR3 rules, as if the internet was a huge omni-sourcebook with a strange indexing scheme. Shadowrun 3rd Edition came out in late 1999. It is late 2004. If you saved the nominal amount of $5 a month, every month, you'd have around $600 right now to spend on Shadowrun books.

To put that in perspective, the total costs to purchase all of the "core" Shadowrun books, 3rd Edition, are:

Shadowrun Third Edition: $30.00
Shadowrun Companion: $18.00
Magic in the Shadows: $20.00
Matrix: $20.00
Rigger 3 Revised: $24.99
Man and Machine: $24.99
Cannon Companion: $19.99

For a grand total of $157.97. That's a lot to spend on books at any one time, granted, but that's the total number of releases over the course of five years. Averages to a little over a dollar a month. If you couldn't be bothered to pay that, or can't afford that somehow(new player, for instance, wouldn't have had five years to get money together), start saving now. Join up with a group, maybe, and do some reading of relevent rules sections before every game.

There are quite a lot of easy, practical solutions to avoid the agony others suffer when they watch you attempt to learn the lion's share of material from a book you don't have, one question at a time. The first time I fell for this, I probably had explained about 2/3 of SR3, 1/3 of CC, and 2/3 of M&M before I realized the player/GM in question didn't have a poor memory, he didn't have the books at all. Moreover, with me around to act as a living reference tool... why would he ever need them?

^ Exactly.

Ok so reading this has confused me further in regards to centering. I'm a newbie mage who wants to Center to reduce drain from spells. Assuming I initiated and had the centering ability, would I be able to use my Latin(4) and chant in Latin (bible verses appropriate to the spell I'm about to cast) to roll 4 die to center before spellcasting? Or would I have to take Centering as a skill and roll that to center before spellcasting?

Here's how it works.

You have a Centering Skill and a linked Artistic Skill. The Artistic Skill can be just about anything -- Latin, Dancing, Singing, Looking Cool in Shades... whatever. Your rating in that Artistic Skill limits the maximum rating you can develop your Centering Skill. So if you have Latin 4, the highest your Centering Skill can be is 4.

Now, when you want to use Centering you spend a Free Action performing the Artistic Skill you have linked to your Centering Skill. If you used Latin, you'll say a few words in Latin. You don't actually have to roll your Latin Skill, however, as it's assumed you do whatever basic action is required successfully.

Now, to figure out the results of your Centering, you make your Centering roll. If you're using Centering to help lower Drain, every two successes on that roll count as one extra success on your Drain Resistance Test. If you were using it to counter target number penalties, every two successes would lower the total penalty by -1. If you were using it to add successes to your Spellcasting Test, every two successes would add +1 success. Your TN for each particular use of Centering your using depends on that use; see the CC for details.

There. Make more sense?

You take the Active skill Centering, and a linked Knowledge skill of some kind. The character rools his Centering skill (up to the level of the linked skill) for the Metamagic.

[edit] What Doc said! [/edit]

It's not my fault you're a slacker.

sure, sure. it's never your fault. go on, keep shoving your responsibilities onto other people!

Gotcha, I still need to take Centering(4) then. Thanks! Off I go to try to squeeze out more karma from this character

Like there was any chance of me stopping. Pfft.

Just remember that you can't Center without wearing them. This can, in fact be a limitation at times, especially in certain social situations.

Note that I also blatantly stole that particular one from mfb.

It would have been beneath even me to have mentioned that fact.

I may be a lot of negative things at times, but I'm not going to steal credit for someone else's cool ideas.

if your shades are limiting you in certain social situations, it's only because your Looking Good in Shades skill isnt' high enough !!